Han and Greedo : Am I missing something?

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righthanded

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Dec 5, 2007
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tiredinnuendo said:
The Treasoner said:
And if he wants to remake his films into a version HE likes, considering HE made them, let him. It just seems like his fans really don't care about him at all, I don't hear anyone whining that Ridley Scott keeps remaking Blade Runner and that each remake gets significantly different from the Theatrical version.
Actually, that really bothers me, especially since he cut out the monologue, which I really liked, and made Deckard a replicant, which kind of destroyed the whole "Your maker made you better than mine made me" point.
Scott did many good things, but his alterations to Blade Runner bothered me greatly.

- J, still has the original version
The studio altered Scott's BladeRunner. Scott didn't want the voice over and wanted to keep the scenes alluding that Deckard was a replicant. The fact that the 'happy ending' in the original features stock footage from Kubrick's 'the Shining' should be a clue that what was released wasn't the movie Scott made.

PKD's themes are about questioning what it is to be human and what is real. That's the journey of Deckard in Scott's Final Cut and the Director's Cut. Scott didn't have much control over the 10th anniversary Director's cut and wasn't happy with what the studio would let him do.
 

tiredinnuendo

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righthanded said:
The studio altered Scott's BladeRunner. Scott didn't want the voice over and wanted to keep the scenes alluding that Deckard was a replicant. The fact that the 'happy ending' in the original features stock footage from Kubrick's 'the Shining' should be a clue that what was released wasn't the movie Scott made.

PKD's themes are about questioning what it is to be human and what is real. That's the journey of Deckard in Scott's Final Cut and the Director's Cut. Scott didn't have much control over the 10th anniversary Director's cut and wasn't happy with what the studio would let him do.
I suppose that's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it would be that the writer of the adaptation has stated that he preferred ambiguity, and it's also worth noting that Scott never completely read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" which was the original source material.

I could take or leave the happy ending. It felt tacked on and pointless. However, I really liked the monologue (felt it added a very Sam Spade element), and I much prefer the idea of Deckard being human. If they're all artificial, I feel the impact is lessoned. Roy becoming literally "more human" than Deckard at the end means nothing if Deckard isn't human.

- J
 

Thegreatoz

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Asymptote Angel said:
Drong said:
Han shot first


(or he did in the original then in the first re-make Mr Lucas decided to screw things up and have Grredo shoot first but somehow miss from point blank range, the fans were in uproar and in the final re-make it got changed back to Han shooting first.) It's just a example of directors messing with classic films many years later when they should realise that it's art and you can't go changing it
It's his movie... he can do whatever he wants to it. If the movie were made by another director, I'd be with you completely. It's your prerogative to crucify the man for changing something that wouldn't have noticed if you weren't looking for it, but remember that it's his property (both intellectual and physical) and you have no right to tell him what to do with it.
It is just weird that he would change something that had nothing wrong with it; he changed Han's image quite drastically and to people who were die hard fans it came as a shock, he changed what they fell in love with. It would be like Da Vinci coming back from the dead and changing the Mona Lisa so that her famous half smile was gone.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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*rage rising*

Han shot first.

Quite apart from the basic physics, Han's reaction speed and Greedo being a common thug; there's also the idea of character arcs.

The whole mythology of the film is based on the Hero's Journey; and the road to redemption.

Han's character starts off as a Black Hat, becomes Grey after rescuing Leia and then turns White after Hoth.

IF Greedo had shot first, it questions his abilities to start with; and also means that he gets more mean whilst he's on the Death Star and ruins his entire character arc.

As an analogy; it's sort of like Freddy Krueger jumping into the Furnace to escape the parent's wrath; it totally alters the character's reason for living.
 

Whitto

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Thegreatoz said:
It would be like Da Vinci coming back from the dead and changing the Mona Lisa so that her famous half smile was gone.
The Reverend said:
Hell, you don't see anyone running off to change the Mona Lisa (Granted, Da Vinci is dead, but I doubt he would want it changed)
Actually guys, Da Vinci never finished the Mona Lisa, he took it with him wherever he moved, adding to it for years until progress was halted by his death. It was never 'Just right'

As a Star Wars fan, I have been offended by Lucas's approach to his finished films. But on the other hand as an artist I can sympathise with him. One of the tricks to being an artist in any medium is to know when to say 'that's enough, it's finished'. The pursuit of perfection is a powerful mistress and I am guilty of exactly the same as George, on a smaller scale of course, but my re-painting of some of my 40k models offended a couple of my friends who couldn't understand why they weren't fine the way they were. They were fine as they were of course, but as the author of a piece of work, you can see all the flaws in it, all the bits that didn't come out quite how you would have liked, things other people just can't see.

But they're there, and there is always the temptation to go back and try and sort them out, but if you do, you only cause new flaws and in some cases eradicate some of the bits that made it good in the first place. But if you can make a lot of money from the process, why not?

So lay off George, he's still an artist (albeit with more money than sense) and all he wanted was to make his films better.
 

PurpleRain

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I swear, Preditor attacked Alien first! Aliens fought back over self defence.

I go with the Han argument. It makes way more sense.
 

Saskwach

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A bounty hunter and a smuggler walk into a bar...

Note: I was tempted to finish it off with "and the act of observing them collapses the waveform" but I felt trailing off until this addendum served the joke better.