Hardcore mode - A video game scourge? Or immersive tool?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I haven't played New Vegas yet, but hardcore mode kind of reminds me of Betrayal at Krondor and Betrayal in Antara. In both games, your characters had to eat and sleep, otherwise they would start losing health. I don't think you could actually die of starvation, but you could drop to 1 hp until you were able to eat up and heal up. Food could go bad, and if you took it from a dead enemy, it was important to check it to make sure that it wasn't poisoned. You could also get sick, which led to various problems, such as dying of plague. It sounds complicated, but it was handled in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive, and it added much more to the game than it took away. In other words, it wouldn't hurt to see more games with a system like this -- Fallout: NV is the first game I've heard of with a system like that since Betrayal in Antara came out, and that was back in the late 90's.

 

[phoenix352]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

i heard that drinking soda makes you go pee more often then by drinking water since it has lots of other chemicals in the mix so in a way soda would make you thirstier in the long run.

 

[Nexus4]

Shit double post sorry

 

[Nexus4]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

i heard that drinking soda makes you go pee more often then by drinking water since it has lots of other chemicals in the mix so in a way soda would make you thirstier in the long run.

Caffeine acts as a diuretic hormone, less water is reabsorbed from the kidney back into the bloodstream than normal; so it would cause you to be more thirsty. Problem is that Obsidian emphasized the effects of it a bit too much, it will not cause mass dehydration with just one bottle as Yahtzee pointed out. Source: five years studying human biology

 

[Vrach]

I remember something very similair on an older game, when exposed to cold weather your stamina meter drained and could only be brought up by being exposed to warmth, stamina was seperate from health as well

Aye, like fatigue in Morrowind/Oblivion I imagine? Could be done easily

 

[SyphonX]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's probably true. Alcohol dehydrates you even more I wonder if that's in the game.

If they want to make a realistic mode, they'd better give you an adrenalin boost when you get startled by a Deathclaw, without getting addicted because it's a natural drug.

Anyway, no hardcore for me!

Either that or they could have you crap your pants because that's pretty damn realistic when it comes to Deathclaws

Personally, I think it's great. It means you have to take stock over your inventory rather than being a walking armoury. However, that's still no problem for me because with Strength 6 and the Strong Back Perk I can carry 260lbs which means a Service Rifle, 3 grenades, a machete, an assault carbine, a 10mm and 9mm pistol, brass knuckles, a hunting rifle, 32 bottles of water, 700 10mm rounds, a hundred standard rounds for other guns, a hundred 5.56mm AP rounds and a metric fuckton of food. So it sorta makes the whole thing moot in that sense.

PS: that only brings me up to 160-180lbs so that's a spare 80-100lbs for loot.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

i heard that drinking soda makes you go pee more often then by drinking water since it has lots of other chemicals in the mix so in a way soda would make you thirstier in the long run.

Caffeine acts as a diuretic hormone, less water is reabsorbed from the kidney back into the bloodstream than normal; so it would cause you to be more thirsty. Problem is that Obsidian emphasized the effects of it a bit too much, it will not cause mass dehydration with just one bottle as Yahtzee pointed out. Source: five years studying human biology

I guessed it was grossly overaxagerated when 32 bottles of soda almost gave me major dehydration sickness.

 

[mParadox]

Games are meant to be fun!! Immersive! The works!!!

HCM is just an annoyance.

 

[Kenko]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

Apart from bad teeth and obescity

 

[Something Amyss]

i heard that drinking soda makes you go pee more often then by drinking water since it has lots of other chemicals in the mix so in a way soda would make you thirstier in the long run.

Well, if you heard it, I'll just take your word for it. My friend's cousin's dentist's uncle said he saw bigfoot once....

Apart from bad teeth and obescity

Which are totally hydration issues, what we were talking about, after all.

 

[Grygor]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

Soda is over 90% water. The sugar content has no bearing whatsoever on the thirst issue. Nor does the carbon dioxide.
Soda in general contains less caffeine than most other caffeinated beverages. Caffeine is not some "magically dehydrating" compound - it acts like a mild diuretic, increasing the rate at which the kidneys extract water from the bloodstream. Tolerance to caffeine develops rapidly, which reduces the magnitude of this diuretic effect. Never mind the fact that in desert heat, the primary route of water loss is sweat, not urine.
Realistically, the soda would quench thirst, but reduce the amount of time it takes you to become thirsty again. It would definitely not make you even thirstier. It's not like sea water, which is so salty that it takes more water to excrete the excess salts than you get by drinking it, and which actually does make you thirstier as a result.
After all, alcohol is a much stronger diuretic than caffeine, yet until about the 19th century alcoholic beverages were people's primary source of hydration due to the general lack of clean drinking water.

I guessed it was grossly overaxagerated when 32 bottles of soda almost gave me major dehydration sickness.

32 bottles? Jesus Christ man... that's not dehydration, that's caffeine poisoning.

Yes, caffeine is fatal in large enough doses. And by large doses, I mean in excess of 100 liters of soda. (Or about 40 liters of tea, 20 liters of coffee, or 5 liters of espresso.)

 

[LightOfDarkness]

As for the headshots issue, please lower the HP for the head and lower the hit %. Having to shoot someone in the face 10 times is F-'tarded.

There's a mod for that on New Vegas Nexus. Some guy said that it should end the game after the intro.

Better only start it after you make your character then XD

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well it depends upon the game you're playing. In New Vegas you're in a desert wasteland, so it makes sense to add an optional hardcore mode where you don't just have to worry about health and radiation but also thirst, hunger, and sleep. In other games it wouldn't really make that much sense.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

It severely limits weapon loadouts, makes strength matter to a non-melee character, and resolves the cognitive dissonance attached to Hover Bullets. Plus makes food and water useful instead of just creating an I Win Button out of Stimpaks (Fallout 3, I'm looking at you). You want to walk into a Deathclaw nest, you do so at your own peril in hardcore, while in non-hardcore you could just spam the hotkey and stim up.

I enjoyed it for the first few hours but by the end of the game I was so happy to just switch it off forever.

It only made things a little bit more challenging, but way more tedious. I got so sick of travelling back to Novac every ten minutes to get water.

 

[u4527646]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

Soda is over 90% water. The sugar content has no bearing whatsoever on the thirst issue. Nor does the carbon dioxide.
Soda in general contains less caffeine than most other caffeinated beverages. Caffeine is not some "magically dehydrating" compound - it acts like a mild diuretic, increasing the rate at which the kidneys extract water from the bloodstream. Tolerance to caffeine develops rapidly, which reduces the magnitude of this diuretic effect. Never mind the fact that in desert heat, the primary route of water loss is sweat, not urine.
Realistically, the soda would quench thirst, but reduce the amount of time it takes you to become thirsty again. It would definitely not make you even thirstier. It's not like sea water, which is so salty that it takes more water to excrete the excess salts than you get by drinking it, and which actually does make you thirstier as a result.
After all, alcohol is a much stronger diuretic than caffeine, yet until about the 19th century alcoholic beverages were people's primary source of hydration due to the general lack of clean drinking water.

Actually the large amount of suger in coke will saturate the glucose transporters in your kidney and osmotically draw more water from your cells into the proximal tubule of the kidney leading to it being excereted and therefore a loss of water. That said, it will still hydrate any cells the water removed from blood reaches before it enters the kidney.

Source: Medical Physiology, Boron & Boulpaep

EDIT: As well as the aforementioned diuretic effect...

 

[loc978]

*shrug*
Fallout 3 annoyed me with its menagerie of weightless items, and New Vegas on hardcore is still almost as bad. That said, at least hardcore mode justifies the existence of food and water, and actually lends some small amount of urgency to monitoring your radiation (at least in the beginning).

Still, it is tedious having to run back home for ammo, food and water as often as you do in that game... nothing will ever be quite as convenient and cool as Fallout 2's Highwayman trunk.

 

[Dimensional Vortex]

it seems with all these recommendations like adding a bathroom meter we're going to be playing Nuclear War aftermath Sims.