Hardcore mode - A video game scourge? Or immersive tool?

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

yeah this, i was about to say..all i drink is pop, so therefore i would be in a never ending spiral of thirstiness..which im not. i drink like 3 a day and thats it for beverages

ot: i honestly don't care for hardcore, i hate it, but i respect it being there, so for the people who like it im glad its there and that i hope it gets better for them but please, do not make it mandatory, i hate having annoying ass challenges like that

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

for the past 10 years or so of my life, i've been a huge soccer player, and my one addiction for life is soda, and when i did play i would drink nearly a 2 liter a day and i would still out run and out play nearly everyone out there, the only kid who had more stamina than me was a cross country kid and thats because he ran fucking like 13 miles a day on weekends outside of practice

so from personal experience, im going to have to call this bullshit, im not trying to be cocky, but im living proof that that is not true at all

 

[SimuLord]

It severely limits weapon loadouts, makes strength matter to a non-melee character, and resolves the cognitive dissonance attached to Hover Bullets. Plus makes food and water useful instead of just creating an I Win Button out of Stimpaks (Fallout 3, I'm looking at you). You want to walk into a Deathclaw nest, you do so at your own peril in hardcore, while in non-hardcore you could just spam the hotkey and stim up.

I enjoyed it for the first few hours but by the end of the game I was so happy to just switch it off forever.

It only made things a little bit more challenging, but way more tedious. I got so sick of travelling back to Novac every ten minutes to get water.

Did I miss something? I consistently had more Purified Water than I knew what to do with. Ditto food and Nuka-Cola and/or Atomic Cocktails in case of lack of places to sleep.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

I thought it was an interesting idea, and though I have never played New Vegas, I would give Hardcore Mode a shot if it I ever bought the game. Sure, some of the logic is a bit wonky, but it must be a little interesting or a little more tense to have to think about it all the time. In that regard, it must add a little immersion.

But hey, it's a new concept that Obsidian tried and I think it is an interesting new venture. The video game industry should always try to innovate and that is what Obsidian did. Let's give them a hand

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

What may sound immersive isn't necessarily immersive in practice. Games have a different set of rules to real life.

Ocarina of Time is immersive as hell, despite its day/night cycle not lasting for a real amount of time.
Silent Hill is immersive despite menu surfing for items and weapons (same goes for Resident Evil, especially 4. If anything the atache case dynamic drew me even FURTHER into the game)

Far Cry 2, a game that was trying to be immersive by removing the HUD for the most part and aiming for some degree of realism practically ejected me from the experience whenever I started getting into it.

New Vegas isn't going to be more immersive with the addition of hardcore mode just because you have to eat and sleep and drink here and there. If anything, it's like it's purposely building a wall to stop you from really "getting lost" in the experience. If you have to keep a mental note to occaisionally go menu surfing to eat something when you could be putting mental notes to one side in aid of totally letting go and getting swept away in the experience, it's a barrier to immersion, not a catalyst for it.

My 2 cents.


Edit: I realised I should probably make this clear, I am in no way OPPOSED to them adding the option though, or trying it in the first place. I'm glad that someone is actually trying to break the mold.
But as with all experiments, not all of them are going to give the desired outcome.
This is why I respect Valve more than most developers though. They take the time to do the experiments, push the envelope and break the mold, but they seem to keep it all in-house and keep going with that flow of idea, implement, analyse and then scrap what doesn't work until they're finally satisfied that they've reached the point of perfection.

But I do appreciate both approaches. I think it is just important for people to see the failed experiments AND the product of lots of experimentation and selective implementation.

 

[Zenn3k]

Hardcore mode in FO:NV was interesting, but I can't say I struggled to keep myself fed or hydrated at all.

Once you get to a point around level 15 or so, you are rolling in cash usually and can keep steak, water and either nuka-cola, chewing tobacco, or Atomic Cocktails and you're pretty much set.

Hardcore mode never really gave me any problems, other than crippled limbs and fights with Cazadors...hate those things!

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Hardcore mode is nice when done correctly but it isn't needed for imersion.

morrowind was very immersive for me because it had a good storyline, good gameplay, lots of overland travel, and that most neglected of all features: good music.

to be immersive a game has to transport you into another world and make that world nice, plump, and fun to be inside of.

hardcore mode can make you feel more connected to a character perhaps but to be honest its only there to add an extra layer of challenge to prolong the game's self life.

 

[loc978]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

for the past 10 years or so of my life, i've been a huge soccer player, and my one addiction for life is soda, and when i did play i would drink nearly a 2 liter a day and i would still out run and out play nearly everyone out there, the only kid who had more stamina than me was a cross country kid and thats because he ran fucking like 13 miles a day on weekends outside of practice

so from personal experience, im going to have to call this bullshit, im not trying to be cocky, but im living proof that that is not true at all

You eat a lot of fruits and vegetables? Your average American gets most of their water content from corn and green beans.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

for the past 10 years or so of my life, i've been a huge soccer player, and my one addiction for life is soda, and when i did play i would drink nearly a 2 liter a day and i would still out run and out play nearly everyone out there, the only kid who had more stamina than me was a cross country kid and thats because he ran fucking like 13 miles a day on weekends outside of practice

so from personal experience, im going to have to call this bullshit, im not trying to be cocky, but im living proof that that is not true at all

You eat a lot of fruits and vegetables? Your average American gets most of their water content from corn and green beans.

eh not any more than the average person, especially not fruits, i dont care for em at all, but ill eat vegetables for dinner maybe two-three times a week, but that's about it. (I'm one of those super unhealthy Americans you point and laugh at generally, except for i keep in shape so im not fat or anything)

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Did I miss something? I consistently had more Purified Water than I knew what to do with. Ditto food and Nuka-Cola and/or Atomic Cocktails in case of lack of places to sleep.

Well yeah there wasn't exactly a lack of just water, but overall... I had to take a bunch of trips to store spare ammo, get the right kind of ammo I needed, get food, store food, store weapons, doctor's bags, repair kits, tools to make them, that kind of thing.

I also stupidly invested in Survival before realising it was worthless and all those hundreds of ingredients sitting in my cubpoard were a complete waste of time once you get to Vegas and there's food everywhere. Oh well.

I guess anything in New Vegas that required me to watch more loading screens was a downer for me.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

What may sound immersive isn't necessarily immersive in practice. Games have a different set of rules to real life.

Ocarina of Time is immersive as hell, despite its day/night cycle not lasting for a real amount of time.
Silent Hill is immersive despite menu surfing for items and weapons (same goes for Resident Evil, especially 4. If anything the atache case dynamic drew me even FURTHER into the game)

I agree with this, well said. The most immersed I have ever been in a game was Fallout 3, and that had hundreds of unrealistic mechanics. It was the world itself - it's aesthetics and character that sucked me in.

New Vegas isn't going to be more immersive with the addition of hardcore mode just because you have to eat and sleep and drink here and there. If anything, it's like it's purposely building a wall to stop you from really "getting lost" in the experience. If you have to keep a mental note to occasionally go menu surfing to eat something when you could be putting mental notes to one side in aid of totally letting go and getting swept away in the experience, it's a barrier to immersion, not a catalyst for it.

While I understand how some people enjoy the increased micro-managing, it really took me out of the experience too. Mainly because in hardcore mode you end up watching even more loading screens than usual and fiddling around with items trying not surpass the max carry weight.

 

[Eagle Est1986]

Hardcore mode has actually made me want to play New Vegas which is saying something seeing I had no interest at all before.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Soda dehydrates you. Especially cola anyway. People need to realize this. Soda is nothing but sugar and syrups, and neither help hydration in any possible way. It's like saying alcohol hydrates you.

People seem to think it "magically hydrates" because they get a 'feeling' when drinking it. This is simply sugar entering the bloodstream and the small high you get from receptors in your brain indicating you are quenching an addiction. Soda is high in caffeine and all sorts of (weapons-grade sugars, as I like to call them) that will get you addicted.

Try running a mile after only drinking soda for a few days, see how fast you nearly pass out. Also, try it in the heat, and then tell me soda is =/= water for hydration.

Soda is over 90% water. The sugar content has no bearing whatsoever on the thirst issue. Nor does the carbon dioxide.
Soda in general contains less caffeine than most other caffeinated beverages. Caffeine is not some "magically dehydrating" compound - it acts like a mild diuretic, increasing the rate at which the kidneys extract water from the bloodstream. Tolerance to caffeine develops rapidly, which reduces the magnitude of this diuretic effect. Never mind the fact that in desert heat, the primary route of water loss is sweat, not urine.
Realistically, the soda would quench thirst, but reduce the amount of time it takes you to become thirsty again. It would definitely not make you even thirstier. It's not like sea water, which is so salty that it takes more water to excrete the excess salts than you get by drinking it, and which actually does make you thirstier as a result.
After all, alcohol is a much stronger diuretic than caffeine, yet until about the 19th century alcoholic beverages were people's primary source of hydration due to the general lack of clean drinking water.

I guessed it was grossly overaxagerated when 32 bottles of soda almost gave me major dehydration sickness.

32 bottles? Jesus Christ man... that's not dehydration, that's caffeine poisoning.

Yes, caffeine is fatal in large enough doses. And by large doses, I mean in excess of 100 liters of soda. (Or about 40 liters of tea, 20 liters of coffee, or 5 liters of espresso.)

Just to clarify, that was in game, not real life

 

[teisjm]

Well, it will never hurt, if it's something you can just turn on if it doesn't please you.

personally, i guess i'd leave it off in some games, since i'd just play the sims once in a while if i wanted if i felt like my games needed sleep, food and going to the bathroom.

 

[Grygor]

I guessed it was grossly overaxagerated when 32 bottles of soda almost gave me major dehydration sickness.

32 bottles? Jesus Christ man... that's not dehydration, that's caffeine poisoning.

Just to clarify, that was in game, not real life [/quote]

No problem... I missed two important letters (bolded for everyone's convenience) that completely changed the meaning.

Way for me to fail at reading there, eh?