Hardcore Will Adopt Kinect First, Says Microsoft

[duchaked]

while it's a bit difficult trying to imagine playing an FPS on Kinect...I realized the potential for RPGs (JRPGs too) and RTS games...

haha flipping the Final Fantasy battle menus like the computer screens in Minority Report
or playing End War like...well like the cinematic generals actually doing it

hmmm...if only...

 

[duchaked]

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

The Power Glove I can understand, but the Wiimote?
The main controller for the console that outsold the crap out of the other two?
The main controller for the console that has Nintendo swimming in money filled pools, and then drying themselves off with more money?
The main controller for the console that introduced gaming to a who massive group of people who otherwise would have never bothered?

That Wiimote?
Just checking.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games and sports games that just use the Wii because people see movement based controls and think it can be a replacement for exercise or the other people who flock to it because they could not handle button controls and thought the motion contol would be easier.

As a gamer who has more then undoubtedly played more games then most i only own i'd say 20 Wii games maybe up to 25 now in comparison to the amount i own for the PS3, around 50, for the 360 around 150, and DS over 100(can't even ballpark it). The Wii has Isolated a large amount of people do to its excessive marketing to the old and the young. me being neither find it hard to purchase the games for the system.

the financial success of the Wii is undeniable, but I don't see why an honest gamer would be pleased by that when the consequence is, as you mentioned, dumbing down most Nintendo games... but I guess when one is playing on the Wii, the "gamer" identity begins to slip away some... (it's probably time to say goodbye to the favorite Nintendo series I grew up with)

 

[Akalistos]

Plus I know my wife will love the sports games and stuff, so it's win-win.

Your intentions are clear. It's not about the game but the bedroom.

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

The Power Glove I can understand, but the Wiimote?
The main controller for the console that outsold the crap out of the other two?
The main controller for the console that has Nintendo swimming in money filled pools, and then drying themselves off with more money?
The main controller for the console that introduced gaming to a who massive group of people who otherwise would have never bothered?

That Wiimote?
Just checking.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games and sports games that just use the Wii because people see movement based controls and think it can be a replacement for exercise or the other people who flock to it because they could not handle button controls and thought the motion contol would be easier.

Not to mention that fan dislike the Wiimote, so they did the classic controller. The Gamecube controller is still favorite on many title and that it took years before they fix the sensibility of the Wiimote... with a extention.... that is most used for On-rail FPS like the Resident Evil remake. Yeah, i think we are speaking about that abortion of good taste.

Thanks for the First Misquote were you said i had a wife....
and i agree about the abortion of good taste

The guys to who it's addressed to pick it up and answered me... so i don't care. Enjoy his wife. (LOL)

Edit:The thing is, i don't think Baby Tea read that message.

 

[Akalistos]

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

The Power Glove I can understand, but the Wiimote?
The main controller for the console that outsold the crap out of the other two?
The main controller for the console that has Nintendo swimming in money filled pools, and then drying themselves off with more money?
The main controller for the console that introduced gaming to a who massive group of people who otherwise would have never bothered?

That Wiimote?
Just checking.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games and sports games that just use the Wii because people see movement based controls and think it can be a replacement for exercise or the other people who flock to it because they could not handle button controls and thought the motion contol would be easier.

Not to mention that fan dislike the Wiimote, so they did the classic controller. The Gamecube controller is still favorite on many title and that it took years before they fix the sensibility of the Wiimote... with a extention.... that is most used for On-rail FPS like the Resident Evil remake. Yeah, i think we are speaking about that abortion of good taste.[/quote]

i agree about the abortion of good taste

This is take two...

 

[Treblaine]

Translation: "The loyal Xbots will buy whatever exclusive crap we release"

I am an Xbox 360 user and I am MAD AS HELL with Microsoft's bloody fans, they don't hold a high standard they just endlessly defend their chosen platform like a bloody religion. If Xbox users refuse to buy Kinect till it has a wide selection of really interesting and unique and deep games for it then things might actually change for the better.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games

Huh? But Super Mario Galaxy 1 & especially 2, those are INCREDIBLE games, highest rated on review Aggregate sites. Sure Wii has been inundated with casual shovelware, but so have consoles with hardcore shovelware, it's just we ignore those

Rebuttal
talking about the endless crap exercise and sports games they release for the wii or the Daring Game for Girls type games

Wii mote is absolutely ideal (second only to computer mouse) for aiming as in rail Shooters or FPS games (if you don't include noob features like aim-assist and COD's "auto-snap" for consoles). Wii Controller's pointing precision is amazing, thanks to use of the sensor bar, it is a genius piece of design that allows great accuracy with low latency and virtually insignificant processing overhead.

Small question: how many of the games in your PS3 and Xbox 360 games collection have seen a PC release?

Rebuttal by Gamegodtre
about 93 combined

It's just because 150 games is a HELL of a stretch for Xbox 360 which has only been out since late 2005, I only have about 150 PC games from the entire 1999 to 2010 period and that is really pushing not only games that are worth my money, but even worth my time if they sold for pittance.

Don't understand the last part there please explain if my guess is wrong but are you insinuating the 360 only has 150 games?
if thats the case i own them all most being FPS's and RPG's.
as for the selling point ehemm go to ebay and look up these playstation games
Dragon Warrior 7
Xenogears
FF 7
Parasite Eve both
Breath of Fire 3,4
Earthbound
etc.....
some newer games will shown up there in the future trust me.

(first let me correct myself, I have gotten about 150 PC games in 6 years, I misread my inventory subtotal, I find about about 24 PC games per year worth getting)

OH NO NO! I don't mean to imply that only 150 games for the 360 have been released so far! No, it is easily 10x that, but remember Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is crud"

Now precisely which 90% is crud is a matter of opinion (you may like some unpopular games but equally dislike some popular games) but in any category of anything likely you are only going to even remotely like 10% of the content. So you can see why I initially thought 150 games is really pushing it for someone's collection of 360 games.

Actually, considering I tend to prefer to get games on PC if possible and as a result only found 12 retail games releases on Xbox 360 worth getting (counting from 2005 through 2011) - about 2 every year. Overall I only find 12 console games per year that are worth getting, across Wii, 360 and PS3 platform.

Well I suppose a major factor is my lack of preference of JRPGs (which for some reason have been really big on Xbox 360), I tend to prefer western RPGs that have traditionally been PC based. Then considering every PC game that had a 360 release I got the 360 release instead... that would add up to a lot.

Yeah, on second thoughts 150 xbox 360 games does sound plausible.

But some games that came out on PC + 360 I'd NEVER consider getting on 360 and they perform so terribly and unlike PC there is no tweaking or fiddling you can do to solve the poor performance that really negatively affect gameplay. Like quake 4 with a framerate that so often dips into the low teens... that destroys any fun you can have with a game.

In fact Sturgeon's Law applies very well to Xbox 360, Wii, ps2... just name your platform. It is as old as politics to discredit a platform you disfavour by focusing on what an apparently large proportion of crud there is but you can't ever lose track of the important stuff, the best games that are worth getting.

Interestingly about 90% of our DNA is useless junk that doesn't code for anything, its just our cells are designed to only read the important bits.

People take the same approach to Xbox 360, they skip over the Movie-licence cash-in games, pass by the no-name developer rip-offs (ninja blade, Vampire rain), ignore the dodgy sports titles (Nascar? Cabela's Deer hunt?) and go straight for the cream of the crop.

 

[Gamegodtre]

Plus I know my wife will love the sports games and stuff, so it's win-win.

Your intentions are clear. It's not about the game but the bedroom.

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

The Power Glove I can understand, but the Wiimote?
The main controller for the console that outsold the crap out of the other two?
The main controller for the console that has Nintendo swimming in money filled pools, and then drying themselves off with more money?
The main controller for the console that introduced gaming to a who massive group of people who otherwise would have never bothered?

That Wiimote?
Just checking.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games and sports games that just use the Wii because people see movement based controls and think it can be a replacement for exercise or the other people who flock to it because they could not handle button controls and thought the motion contol would be easier.

Not to mention that fan dislike the Wiimote, so they did the classic controller. The Gamecube controller is still favorite on many title and that it took years before they fix the sensibility of the Wiimote... with a extention.... that is most used for On-rail FPS like the Resident Evil remake. Yeah, i think we are speaking about that abortion of good taste.

Thanks for the First Misquote were you said i had a wife....
and i agree about the abortion of good taste

The guys to who it's addressed to pick it up and answered me... so i don't care. Enjoy his wife. (LOL)

Edit:The thing is, i don't think Baby Tea read that message.

Lolz

 

[HigherTomorrow]

I have zero faith in a company to reach a target audience that can't even spell "Connect" correctly.

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

I'm going to hope you meant that the Wiimote alienated the core market, and not that the Wiimote is a bad peripheral.

 

[Gamegodtre]

Translation: "The loyal Xbots will buy whatever exclusive crap we release"

I am an Xbox 360 user and I am MAD AS HELL with Microsoft's bloody fans, they don't hold a high standard they just endlessly defend their chosen platform like a bloody religion. If Xbox users refuse to buy Kinect till it has a wide selection of really interesting and unique and deep games for it then things might actually change for the better.

also the controller which dumbed down most of Nintendos games to a whole new level of kiddy games

Huh? But Super Mario Galaxy 1 & especially 2, those are INCREDIBLE games, highest rated on review Aggregate sites. Sure Wii has been inundated with casual shovelware, but so have consoles with hardcore shovelware, it's just we ignore those

Rebuttal
talking about the endless crap exercise and sports games they release for the wii or the Daring Game for Girls type games

Wii mote is absolutely ideal (second only to computer mouse) for aiming as in rail Shooters or FPS games (if you don't include noob features like aim-assist and COD's "auto-snap" for consoles). Wii Controller's pointing precision is amazing, thanks to use of the sensor bar, it is a genius piece of design that allows great accuracy with low latency and virtually insignificant processing overhead.

Small question: how many of the games in your PS3 and Xbox 360 games collection have seen a PC release?

Rebuttal by Gamegodtre
about 93 combined

It's just because 150 games is a HELL of a stretch for Xbox 360 which has only been out since late 2005, I only have about 150 PC games from the entire 1999 to 2010 period and that is really pushing not only games that are worth my money, but even worth my time if they sold for pittance.

Don't understand the last part there please explain if my guess is wrong but are you insinuating the 360 only has 150 games?
if thats the case i own them all most being FPS's and RPG's.
as for the selling point ehemm go to ebay and look up these playstation games
Dragon Warrior 7
Xenogears
FF 7
Parasite Eve both
Breath of Fire 3,4
Earthbound
etc.....
some newer games will shown up there in the future trust me.

(first let me correct myself, I have gotten about 150 PC games in 6 years, I misread my inventory subtotal, I find about about 24 PC games per year worth getting)

OH NO NO! I don't mean to imply that only 150 games for the 360 have been released so far! No, it is easily 10x that, but remember Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is crud"

Now precisely which 90% is crud is a matter of opinion (you may like some unpopular games but equally dislike some popular games) but in any category of anything likely you are only going to even remotely like 10% of the content. So you can see why I initially thought 150 games is really pushing it for someone's collection of 360 games.

Actually, considering I tend to prefer to get games on PC if possible and as a result only found 12 retail games releases on Xbox 360 worth getting (counting from 2005 through 2011) - about 2 every year. Overall I only find 12 console games per year that are worth getting, across Wii, 360 and PS3 platform.

Well I suppose a major factor is my lack of preference of JRPGs (which for some reason have been really big on Xbox 360), I tend to prefer western RPGs that have traditionally been PC based. Then considering every PC game that had a 360 release I got the 360 release instead... that would add up to a lot.

Yeah, on second thoughts 150 xbox 360 games does sound plausible.

But some games that came out on PC + 360 I'd NEVER consider getting on 360 and they perform so terribly and unlike PC there is no tweaking or fiddling you can do to solve the poor performance that really negatively affect gameplay. Like quake 4 with a framerate that so often dips into the low teens... that destroys any fun you can have with a game.

In fact Sturgeon's Law applies very well to Xbox 360, Wii, ps2... just name your platform. It is as old as politics to discredit a platform you disfavour by focusing on what an apparently large proportion of crud there is but you can't ever lose track of the important stuff, the best games that are worth getting.

Interestingly about 90% of our DNA is useless junk that doesn't code for anything, its just our cells are designed to only read the important bits.

People take the same approach to Xbox 360, they skip over the Movie-licence cash-in games, pass by the no-name developer rip-offs (ninja blade, Vampire rain), ignore the dodgy sports titles (Nascar? Cabela's Deer hunt?) and go straight for the cream of the crop.

Ninja Blade was Decent for the part of it I played actually(probably would have finished it if it wasn't for The Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition) and as for the Disfavor part i like them all. i just find Nintendos Wii to cater to children and the elderly to much. and as a person who eagerly waiting for The Old Republic i love the PC as well because of Steam and the MMO's

 

[BrionJames]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

[Treblaine]

Ninja Blade was Decent for the part of it I played actually(probably would have finished it if it wasn't for The Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition) and as for the Disfavor part i like them all. i just find Nintendos Wii to cater to children and the elderly to much. and as a person who eagerly waiting for The Old Republic i love the PC as well because of Steam and the MMO's

Yeah, maybe I was harsh on Ninja Blade but you don't tend to remember the names of shovelware, just skim over it. Xbox is certainly afflicted by - rather than Wii's casual shovelware - is inundated with Hardcore shovelware mainly licence tie in games of Movies and even TV shows but also ill advised remakes (bomberman? Golden Axe?) and rip-offs.

I will agree that a lot of Nintendo's offerings don't go for the hardcore but I don't think it is fair or accurate to describe it as "for the children and elderly". So many Wii gamers are young adults and older teenagers (which is in fact the actual target market) who fell out of gaming or never got the chance to get started and current consoles, well they are just "too hardcore" for novices to get started with unless they have some other motivating factor.

It's like trying to sell a family their first TV... you aren't going to sell them a 7.1 Dolby surround sound system with gigantic 3D blu-ray TV that all the cinema-philes rave about. No, that is too "upmarket", then need a serviceable system that does the job an is easy to use. The biggest appeal of DVD was not the quality but that it was VHS but with the convenience of a music CD in terms of physical storage, tracking, playback.

Wii is selling to the downmarket, the fact that elderly and infants can play it serves the purpose of nullifying the concerns of non-gamers (of all ages) about modern games being too challenging or obscure to get into, as I mean if THEY can handle it anyone can. To a novice, the Ps3 controller looks COVERED in buttons, utterly incomprehensible and unintuitive. Nintendo is trying to bring some new blood into gaming, a lot of people may game at the moment and it has reached a critical mass that everyone want to get on board but take a look at a novice trying to play COD4 even on easiest settings.

Wii is the perfect introduction, focusing on 2D platform-ers/brawlers, rail shooters and kart racing games to ease them into gaming concepts before dumping them into a 3D world which for a novice could lead to too many frustrating deaths.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Wait...wait...which is it going to be Microsoft?

The specific quotes do not directly contradict each other (due to vague wording), but it's close.
I mean, why in the balls would I pay at least 150 bucks for Kinect as a hardcore gamer?
What are you offering besides your Wii Sports clone? Right now, nothing.

We all know you're just trying to break into Nintendo's market, fine.
But why does the hardcore gamer care? At all?

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I'm still waiting to hear what I'm supposed to do with this thing that's supposed to justify me spending $450 and rearranging all my furniture to use it. At least the Wii was pretty cheap thing that I just stuck next to my TV and used to play Gamecube games. I really want to know what kind of game would actually need this thing to work and how anything would be particularly enhanced by its use. Even the cat-petting thing is pointless, since you can't actually feel anything like you could if you pet a real cat, like the one sitting on my lap right now.

 

[st0pnsw0p]

So Kinect seems squarely aimed at the casual market, but it's important to remember that a game doesn't have to just have motion controls to make use of Kinect. Ubisoft's Child of Eden, the spiritual successor to Rez, allows the use of Kinect as well as the standard controller, and there's no reason for that to be a unique set up.

There's no reason why the next Call of Juarez couldn't have Kinect compatible quick-draw sections, and Kinect could make the alchemy in The Elder Scrolls V a lot more involved. Kinect has bags of potential, and personally I hope that the hardcore do buy it so that potential can be realized.

So what you're suggesting is that we spend $150 on Kinect to use it for what are pretty much minigames within harcore games?

 

[Reire]

No thanks Microsoft.

I already have a Wii...that I don't play. I got over the whole "flail my arms around, fighting to control the game" fun before it was a year old.

A year?
I traded mine in after a week :/

OT: Silly Microsoft, nobody's going to buy it!

 

[Sovvolf]

Mmmmm, the overall feeling I'm getting from this thread is that I'm no longer a hardcore gamer because I enjoyed my Wii and I'll probably be purchasing Kinect. Well to be quite honest if this is how elitist "Hardcore" gamers have become... Then I honestly don't want to be associated with that word.

Anyways I'm looking forward to Kinect and I can't wait to give it a shot. I'm not won over by the initial line up but I'm sure they'll be better games out later. Heck the 360 didn't have a brilliant line up to begin with.

I'm curiously wandering how many people actually hate it because they hate it, to me it seems hated because hating it is now popular. Others are hating it because they didn't like the Wii. Some are hating it because other 'none-gamers' will want to play and buy an 360... None gamers aren't allowed to mix with the "Hardcore" you see. The rest have this delusion in their heads that because Microsoft as released an enhanced motion camera, Microsoft will no longer be making "Real" games. Which is a little unfounded when they announced mostly "Real" Games at E3.

I have this disturbing feeling in my gut that now I've praised Kinect, I'll have to put up a flame shield.

 

[Wolfy4226]

I have zero faith in a company to reach a target audience that can't even spell "Connect" correctly.

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

Well actually, I think Kinect is supposed to be a mash up of the words "Connect" and "Kinetic" (As in movement energy.).

Rather obvious, really.

 

[Wolfy4226]

I'll buy it. Why? Because I can.

 

[Cody211282]

It will be a cold day in hell before I buy one of these things, if I wanted retarded shovelwear I would buy a Wii.

 

[Snownine]

I have zero faith in a company to reach a target audience that can't even spell "Connect" correctly.

Also, controller Enhancment shit like this is always a bad idea. Didn't we learn anything from the Power Glove and the Wiimote?

They spelled connect that way because of the motion controls. Motion-kinetic.

 

[Pyode]

-snip-

I don't think it's as much about elitism as you think (although that is certainly a factor). I think the main problem people have with Kinect is that they think it is going to have the same problem that the Wii had.

You see, motion controls only have very specific applications and for most other situations a physical controller will always be preferable. The problem that the Wii had was that motion controls where it's primary interface, so any developer making a game for it was essentially forced to utilize them in some way, even if it wasn't appropriate for that specific game. This restriction is what turned a lot of "hardcore" game developers and players away from the Wii. (It didn't help that the Wii was essentially not much more powerful then the Game Cube, so that further pushed a lot of good developers away)

And now, all of the people who where so disappointed by the Wii see this as a step in that same direction. This in completely inaccurate of course. Because Kinect is just a peripheral, developers (hopefully) won't feel compelled to shoehorn unnecessary Kinect functionality into their games.

So, basically what I am saying is that it's less "elitism" and more irrational fear.