Has Bioware been falling in quality?

[Bobbity]

I would argue that TOR has had more to do with it than EA. EA has had a negative effect, true, in terms of DLC, and, well DA2, but TOR has taken Bioware's best off its other two franchises, and left them the poorer for it. Mass Effect 2's writing took a turn for the worse,[footnote]Still good - I love ME2 - but the writing simply wasn't of the same quality as that of the original game. People started throwing around swear words for no real reason, the choices were back to black and white and there were a couple of noticeable plotholes. Besides, what the fuck did they do to Liara? I'm glad we got LotSB, or I might have had an aneurysm.[/footnote] DA2 suffered from a massive lack of environments - amongst a host of other concerns - and from the leaked plot, ME3 looks like a dog's breakfast. In essence, they've taken a backseat to EA's desperate attempt to gain a share of the MMO market, and Bioware's current franchises are suffering for it.

Call me optimistic, but now that TOR is actually out there, I'm hoping that the quality of DA and ME[footnote]This isn't as a criticism of the second game, but rather everything I've seen of or read about the third. Seriously, it looks like shit. Did you see that Thresher Worm trailer? That had incredible potential to be awesome and dramatic, but they somehow managed to make it utterly boring instead.[/footnote] improves dramatically.

Except that EA has now put them to work on Command and Conquer. I mean, what the fuck?

Not to mention that we're still waiting for a Jade Empire sequel.

 

[Xannieros]

I found every one of those game on your list to be enjoyable. I have experienced close to no glitches and bugs while playing. Peoples expectations are too high.

Only gripes is about the DLC, and it's not just Bioware that's riding this cashcow to our wallets. And Dragon Age 2 was a little disappointing. Being that it watered down RPG elements and limited amount of level maps.

So no. I don't think quality is falling, its being taken away with DLC.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Except that EA has now put them to work on Command and Conquer. I mean, what the fuck?

That's not really Bioware [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39073/Victory_Games_Latest_EA_Studio_To_Be_Renamed_BioWare.php]

 

[80Maxwell08]

Oh hey look, a thread where a vocal hardcore minority bitches about how they just don't make games like they did back in 199X, the good old days......Yeah I'm going to leave now.

Once again please read the first sentence before saying anything.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Also if I can say one quick thing about SWTOR why did they keep the dialog wheel for that when it was designed for consoles?

Just thought I'd address this one real quick. While class story dialogue may give you all the time you want, any grouped dialogue is on a timer, so that you don't get stuck in a convo by someone who got disconnected, went AFK, or just likes to troll people in game by not letting the dialogue move forward. This being the case, it is absolutely necessary that conversation options be concise and easily distinguishable at a glance, so that you don't miss out on an opportunity to respond(this happened to me once in the Hammer Station flashpoint because the the options sounded similar and didn't really match up well with the dialogue leading up to them). The dialogue wheel does this quite well, where as the old school Baldur's Gate style dialogue lists would not.

 

[Robert632]

I'm going to use that quote from Socrates about children.( You know the one.)

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Now I'm sure the majority of people are saying "The fuck does some old dead guy hating on children have to do with Bioware dropping in quality or not?", And you'd be right, the connection is tenuous at best, but it is an example of what I'm trying to say.

Socrates thought the children of his generation were greedy little shits. Years later, our parents generation was thought of as the same thing by their own parents. Our parents's parents generation was thought of as the same thing. Another conmen thing was that they thought their own generation, the one that had just been derided as full of greedy little douches, were much superior to the new generation. Why would they think that?

Another example that will help me explain my view is a episode of How I Met Your Mother. The plot of the episode was that one of the characters, Marshall, want's to find the burger joint where he ate his first New York burger. It was the best burger he had ever eaten, and afterwards every other burger tasted like feet. Him and his friends even try a multitude of burgers in their quest, with them declaring ever burger awesome while he just pines for the lost burger joint. What makes it relevant to this situation for me though, was the description of the burger, which just sounded like a normal burger, just purple prosed to sound awesome( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PurpleProse -In case you don't know what purple prose is).

So no, I don't think they dropped in quality, because "Quality" is such a matter of opinion that declaring them better or worse rests almost entirely on how you first encountered them.

[sub] Wow, I think this my most pseudo-intellectual post ever![/sub]

 

[Compatriot Block]

It's truly incredible how after Dragon Age 2 so many people retroactively decided that all of Bioware's games have been declining in quality. If that game had never been released, I'd bet that a lot more people would be shouting about how awesome Mass Effect 3 is going to be and how there needs to be a Dragon Age sequel.

 

[XUnsafeNormalX]

It's truly incredible how after Dragon Age 2 so many people retroactively decided that all of Bioware's games have been declining in quality. If that game had never been released, I'd bet that a lot more people would be shouting about how awesome Mass Effect 3 is going to be and how there needs to be a Dragon Age sequel.

Don't forget about Mass Effect 2. A lot of people weren't happy with the new direction and butchered plot.

 

[DustyDrB]

It's truly incredible how after Dragon Age 2 so many people retroactively decided that all of Bioware's games have been declining in quality. If that game had never been released, I'd bet that a lot more people would be shouting about how awesome Mass Effect 3 is going to be and how there needs to be a Dragon Age sequel.

Don't forget about Mass Effect 2. A lot of people weren't happy with the new direction and butchered plot.

I never heard many people complaining about ME2 until after Dragon Age 2 came out. ME2 is still my favorite game of all time.

 

[XUnsafeNormalX]

It's truly incredible how after Dragon Age 2 so many people retroactively decided that all of Bioware's games have been declining in quality. If that game had never been released, I'd bet that a lot more people would be shouting about how awesome Mass Effect 3 is going to be and how there needs to be a Dragon Age sequel.

Don't forget about Mass Effect 2. A lot of people weren't happy with the new direction and butchered plot.

I never heard many people complaining about ME2 until after Dragon Age 2 came out. ME2 is still my favorite game of all time.

Well then you didn't see it like I did. I thought the combat definitely flowed a lot better than it did in ME1 but the story was just a way to cash in on a cheap sequel. Compared to the overall plot of the Mass Effect Universe ME 2 might as well have been a meaningless fan fiction. They took the ending of ME 1 and threw it out the window, replaced the Geth with Collectors and then did the whole thing over again.

I was disappointed to say the least.

 

[Bobbity]

Except that EA has now put them to work on Command and Conquer. I mean, what the fuck?

That's not really Bioware [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39073/Victory_Games_Latest_EA_Studio_To_Be_Renamed_BioWare.php]

Thank you for that news, now I'm happy.

Except that EA is now just slapping the Bioware name on almost every developer it buys. Damn, but I really hate EA.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Also if I can say one quick thing about SWTOR why did they keep the dialog wheel for that when it was designed for consoles?

Just thought I'd address this one real quick. While class story dialogue may give you all the time you want, any grouped dialogue is on a timer, so that you don't get stuck in a convo by someone who got disconnected, went AFK, or just likes to troll people in game by not letting the dialogue move forward. This being the case, it is absolutely necessary that conversation options be concise and easily distinguishable at a glance, so that you don't miss out on an opportunity to respond(this happened to me once in the Hammer Station flashpoint because the the options sounded similar and didn't really match up well with the dialogue leading up to them). The dialogue wheel does this quite well, where as the old school Baldur's Gate style dialogue lists would not.

Ok fair enough. Though I don't get why it isn't like in ME for the PC where you would turn the wheel rather than now but eh not really a problem just a thought.

 

[ComradeJim270]

I don't think so. Dragon Age 2 wasn't very good, but one bad game does not constitute a "decline". They'd have to keep making games like that for me to consider there to be a decline in quality.

 

[Phlakes]

I love ME2, probably my favorite game from last year, and TOR looks to be the best MMO since WoW (acronyms FTW). So no. They haven't been falling in quality. At most they've been adjusting to the market AND I'LL STOP YOU RIGHT THERE- that's not a bad thing. Not at all.

 

[XUnsafeNormalX]

You know what? I have yet to play a BioWare game I didn't love!

BioWare made my favorite game of all time (BG2) and have also made the best game of 2011 (SWTOR). I never played Mass Effect, but I loved DA:O and DA2.

Also, to answer your question, SWTOR has the dialogue wheel because of asthetic appeal. It looks a lot nicer than choosing from a list of options in the letterboxing. I just wish there wer more than three options for EVERY dialogue choice.

CAPTCHA: Love Republic

YES MASTER!

Eh I wouldn't really call ToR the GOTY just yet. All MMOs are frontloaded to garner as many subscriptions as possible, it's also probably not a coincidence that many reviewers only play the beginning of the game to get a feel for it. From what I've heard and seen ToR doesn't have much in the form of level 50 content so I feel that it's staying power on the MMO market may be brief.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Except that EA has now put them to work on Command and Conquer. I mean, what the fuck?

That's not really Bioware [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39073/Victory_Games_Latest_EA_Studio_To_Be_Renamed_BioWare.php]

Thank you for that news, now I'm happy.

Except that EA is now just slapping the Bioware name on almost every developer it buys. Damn, but I really hate EA.

Yeah, as much as I would like to think that Bioware has earned the right to make what they want with little to no publisher interference, I find it more likely that EA will use them up, throw them away, and just use Bioware as a big name skin to throw on whatever development house they want to boost the sales of.

 

[Athinira]

1: Mass Effect
While I do give Mass Effect credit for trying to blend RPG and TPS together it has some serious problems with writing and balance. Many of the dialog options are completely pointless since they all lead to your character doing the exact same thing, for example right after the beginning mission when you talk to the council the only times you talk all of your options are basically the same (for example the first one you accuse Saren of attacking the colony and the second you get angry at the council for not believing you, someone who has just come out of a temporary coma).

That isn't just a Mass Effect problem. That's a problem for pretty much every BioWare game i remember, including my favorites of the Baldur's Gate series.

If you only first discovered this in Mass Effect, then you really haven't been paying attention.

The rest of your complaints (Dragon Age 2 ones excepted) rings rather hollow. You complain about the difficulty being too easy in Mass Effect 2, yet don't play on the hardest difficulty (second hardest at best in one mission). Do you think "Insanity"-difficulty is just there as a placeholder? As for the conversations, that's a matter entirely up for interpretation. I feel they do their job, considering that Shepard knows about a galaxy-wide threat, which allows him (or her) to ignore most of the bullsh*t thrown in the face, even if it does occasionally piss him off. I'll agree that they've better gotten rid of the Paragon/Renegade-system for Mass Effect 3 if they had any f*cking clue, but beyond that Mass Effect 2 was a very solid update to it's predecessor, and the third one is going to be even better from what i see.

To me, it seems you are mostly nitpicking very small nitpicks from what is overall very solid games and trying to make them bigger than they are. Sure, they're flaws, but not any harsher than some of BioWares previous games. Dragon Age 2 is the exception since the game in my eyes is still a huge pile of sh*t, but the design direction for that one was the problem, not the nitpicks.