I see Jimmy James. So what you are basically saying is that it is okay for game companies to make half-@$$ed games and make us buy it? I should give them a break because they are trying as hard as they can? So I must spend my hard earned money on junk so they can get ahead? I should slush through all the glitches,low graphics, boring story and lackluster gameplay because somewhere in it maybe there is a good game? It is people like you that make games like Too Human and WII music where they are praised and defended their mediocrity. But when games that are innovative and well done like Okami and Psychonauts they are ignored and fall into obscurity. They are quick to throw 10/10 and A+ at games like Gears of War despite its bad AI partners and enemies,poor and cliched storyline and boring,seen-it all before weapons. But when Uncharted Drake's Fortune came out the first thing they took points off for was cliched story and character. For the amount of money I pay I don't want complete perfection but don't toss me some half done game (Too Human) throw in multiplayer or some gimmick to distract me (Halo, WII music) then expect me to pay up because you tried your best. I am not rich and cannot buy every system and game that comes out. I demand as close to perfection as possible and you should too or they will just keep handing you garbage games and laughing as they watch the gullible people buy it again.Jimmyjames post=9.74439.834194 said:
Have they outdone themselves?
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No, actually you completely missed the point.tiamat5 post=9.74439.844410 said:
My point is, expecting a 4+ year development cycle on every game DOES NOT WORK. Studios would go out of business, period. You should always expect A AND B titles. It's how it works. Unfortunately a lot of gamers now (and they tend to be YOUNG gamers who haven't seen the industry evolve over the last 30 years) seem to expect every game to be an A-title. Not. Going. To. Happen.
But yeah, the choice is yours. If you're the kind of player that waits only for A-titles, go right ahead. You're obviously happy with 2-3 games a year. If you're like me, you'll get 2-3 A-titles a year, and a couple B-titles in between that are fun and decent games.
People seem to be polarized nowadays into "AWESOME" and "SHIT". I hardly ever hear someone say, "Yeah, it was OK." There's nothing wrong with entertainment that is OK. It's relatively cheap, disposable, and does exactly what it sets out to do. No one is trying to rip you off. If you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT. How is anyone MAKING YOU BUY ANYTHING?!?
If you don't agree, fine.
Yes I don't agree. It is no longer just simply A-titles or B-Titles anymore. Okami got good scores all over the board. But it was treated not even like a B-title but even lower than that. So much so that the studio went out of business because of its failure.People are then taking underwhelming games and slapping them with high title status while the games that are being worked hard on are being left behind.Too Human for example is not a B-title, it is not even an okay title, it is full of bad story, bad, glitchy graphics, bad controls. The whole concept was ridiculous. Yet it was still brought by gamers and praised by critics. People have become excuse makers.Everyone looks at the obviously glitchy, low graphic and uninspired game and still go out and buy it anyway. I am not sure what they are trying to prove. This generation of gamers just seem to be proud of accepting mediocrity. No one even listens to what critics say anymore unless it is a good score. I don't let them tell me what to do either but I read the criticism and listen to what they say try to understand. The only games I have ever regretted buying where the so called A-titles that you spoke of, Grand Theft Auto 4 and Oblivion. I am not trying to stop you from buying what ever game you want. I have slogged through many games in the past and still enjoyed them. But stop putting these obviously half @$$ed games on a pedestal. Okami and Psychonauts deserved at least two more sequels or even their own T.V. series and/or movie, instead they where tossed aside. When you buy these games they keep making them over and over again. They realize they can hand you junk and you will take it without a thought.Why does everyone think that the game companies love them or something? They think why should they work hard at making a game presentable when they can hand you any garbage and you play it no matter how painful or tedious it is. A half hearted "its okay" is not acceptable. If you want that go out and buy a PS1 or a SNES. I brought a high powered system and I want to see results not excuses.Jimmyjames post=9.74439.844434 said:
For me, at least, it was just about a year ago that it reached the peak. With stellar games like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Halo 3, and the Orange Box all rolling out in (more or less) quick order, it was a good time to be a gamer.
After that, any dry spell of epic titles is being magnified. Personally, Fable II isn't going to help any - no interest - but Fallout 3 may offer some serious time consumption. This year, as many have pointed out, is shaping up to be the year of the sequels, and that's only making it harder for these games to live up to expectations.
After that, any dry spell of epic titles is being magnified. Personally, Fable II isn't going to help any - no interest - but Fallout 3 may offer some serious time consumption. This year, as many have pointed out, is shaping up to be the year of the sequels, and that's only making it harder for these games to live up to expectations.
We've seen so much innovation in the last years, that we do expect more and more from companies everytime they release a game... The fact that so many gaming companies are releasing sequels also build up our hopes as gamers and the fact that we think that every game should use the full potential of a next gen system and should meet our best expectations... But i'm psyched for fallout on tuesday... Ugh... Just paid it off and now comes the waiting game...
Yes every person has every excuse in the world. What has been so innovative as all that? Game companies are devolving instead of evolving. Look at thew WII controller for instance. Everyone keeps saying it is so innovative but instead it has taken us five steps back. The WII-mote is much harder to control with than a regular controller. Why should I swing my arms around until my shoulders pop out to swing a sword when I can press a button and get the same exact result? It is even less accurate. It was said that drawing in Okami was less precise than the PS2 version. Why is it that everyone thinks that because something is new it is better? Here are some examples. Not having a HUD on your screen is very annoying because you can't really tell how close you are to dying (You know you are close but how close?). Having only two guns in a shooter is also garbage. Why should I run around dropping and picking up guns when half the time I don't even know what is coming up next? Then there is the idiots that give you 500,000 + weapons. By the time I go through some side mission to get a better weapon chances are I always have one or have made one that is ten times better then the one I went though all that fuss to get in the first place. I think the problem is that people have lost sight of what is innovation. Someone once told me that Halo is the greatest story every told. Obviously he has never read a book before or he would not be so quick to say that. I think that people have to start realizing the difference between something being new and something being innovative because a lot of companies are getting away with murder (ahem Nintendo)Sir_Montague post=9.74439.857701 said:
Spore disappointed me. That's actually the only game that really disappointed me now that I think about it. I know how to keep realistic expectations about a game. My expectations for Fallout 3 are high, but I'm pretty sure Bethesda will deliver because in my opinion, Morrowind and Oblivion were brilliant games and I love both to bits. As a TES fan, I'll probably like Fallout 3 more than a Fallout fan will.
But I digress; my point is that gamers should always try to keep their expectations realistic. If you don't expect the best thing since Pong, you might not end up disappointed.
But I digress; my point is that gamers should always try to keep their expectations realistic. If you don't expect the best thing since Pong, you might not end up disappointed.
Ok... so what IS innovation then? I really do think coming up with an effective way to get rid of a HUD without losing any vital information is innovation. Removing a HUD, but still being able to know exactly what you're doing adds to the immersion of a game if you ask me.tiamat5 post=9.74439.859093 said:
Programmers set the bar too high for us.
I mean, when I was a child, Hyrule was a huge kingdom filled with wonder.
I just got the fortune of playing Twilight Princess, and I had to mentally sit down with myself, say, "Don't compare, don't complain. Enjoy it." And I did.
I mentally tore down the canyon retaining walls that have to be there.
I selectively embraced elements of the world, using it as fodder for mental imagery, much akin to reading a novel.
We all complain about what we want from a game, more, longer, better.
And innovation is important.
I just don't understand why people expect for video gaming to be considered an art form if we, as gamers, don't do so ourselves. We need to use our own minds more, rather than expect fantasy to be spoon fed to us.
On the flipside, however, we should refrain from becoming fanboys. They're kinda scary.
I mean, when I was a child, Hyrule was a huge kingdom filled with wonder.
I just got the fortune of playing Twilight Princess, and I had to mentally sit down with myself, say, "Don't compare, don't complain. Enjoy it." And I did.
I mentally tore down the canyon retaining walls that have to be there.
I selectively embraced elements of the world, using it as fodder for mental imagery, much akin to reading a novel.
We all complain about what we want from a game, more, longer, better.
And innovation is important.
I just don't understand why people expect for video gaming to be considered an art form if we, as gamers, don't do so ourselves. We need to use our own minds more, rather than expect fantasy to be spoon fed to us.
On the flipside, however, we should refrain from becoming fanboys. They're kinda scary.
Excellent assessment! So many people seem to think that if it isn't amazing, and unique in every way, it's somehow the dregs of the universe.Jimmyjames post=9.74439.844434 said:
On a sidenote: tiamat5, for the love of God, please use paragraphs.
Its the publishers and developers fault, they create the hype and thus the high expectations, you can't blame gamers for being pissed off when they've realised they've been lied too.
EA is even worse, I reckon they spend more on the hype campaign for there games then they do on actual development costs.
EA is even worse, I reckon they spend more on the hype campaign for there games then they do on actual development costs.
Actually, most people seem to say the game is terrible.tiamat5 said:
If no one listens to what critics say unless it's good, how do you explain "Zero Punctuation"'s success?tiamat5 said:
I never MENTIONED GTA4 or Oblivion. In fact, I can't stand either of those games.tiamat5 said:
For what it's worth, it seems we have the same opinion of what an innovative, good game is. I loved Okami, loved Psychonauts. But it seems like you're saying that anything other than the most innovative, unique games are not OK. I'm telling you that there is room for games like "Chronicles of Narnia" and "Cooking Mama".
Your personal taste does not dictate which games should be made.
PLEASE fucking tell me you did NOT put down the PS1 and SNES. Those are probably the BEST systems EVER MADE. They have some of the BEST GAMES ever made. To imply otherwise almost COMPLETELY NEGATES what you said earlier.tiamat5 said:
Like what? RA3? A game using tired and outdated RTS mechanics, while over doing the silliness to the point of it not being funny anymore and adding a lot of tits to appease pubescent boys.Jimmyjames said:
Mirrors edge looks ok but could just be another Assassins Creed and get old after an hour. Spore sucked but I assume you mean the very latest releases and upcoming titles.
EA just churns out mediocre games while squeezing the last drop of life out of old game franchises that should of died years ago. They are good at marketing and hype though.
What surprises me the most though is you're obviously a fan of the ps1 and snes's awesome line up of games yet praise the crap that EA dump out every year as outstanding?
Well, technically speaking, a "good game" is subjective. For my money the truly good EA games over the last 12 months:Zac_Dai said:
Burnout Paradise
Skate
Battlefield: Bad Co.
Mirror's Edge
Dead Space
Boom Blox
Spore
Sure, they've got a shit-ton of sports franchises out there, but they are FAR from pushing out nothing but crap.
I find the point Miyamoto made a while back about games becoming progressively more and more complex instead of innovating with their integral design apt, which is why I refrained from purchasing either an Xbox 360 or PS3 - categorically, I suppose, their games are better than the Wii's, but after having owned an Xbox with 50+ games I was getting kind of sick of endless rehashes of 'hardcore' designs.
High expectations lead to games like Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars getting panned in the press. For $15, that game rules. I think having low-cost gameplay-centric games alongside high-cost cinematic games is fine. But I would like it if the press would adjust and review things on their own merit.
First of all no I did not put down PS1 and SNES games and second there is no reason to curse. I agree. I loved SNES and PS1 games. I fact I have an emulator that plays SNES games and I still play Rival Schools and Chrono Cross. My point was about advancement. Those games were acceptable for their time. You could ignore the camera that made you fall of cliffs, the pixallated graphics, the weird controls that made you smash the controller in frustration. But now they have the capability to go beyond that especially with the price of video games. I mean when I pay $60.00 for a game don't tell me it is a short game but the multiplayer makes up for it or that it is a pixallated mess but it is fun or the story makes no sense but not to bother because it is an action game or the game has glitches but the have to give you a patch to fix it. Do it right the first time.Jimmyjames said:
Look at Ninja Gaiden. The camera was so bad the enemies were able to attack you off screen and you didn't even see it coming. Then in the second one they did the exact same thing. You would think in this age of gaming you would think you got the camera angles down by now. And even worse some people actually think they made it like that to be more challenging. I have nothing against B-grade games. I fact although Motorstorm 2 and Valkyrie Chronicles got only 8s or Bs I still plan on buying them because they are solid games. But don't give me third generation games with second or even first generation flaws and expect me to give it a good scores, take patches or to pay $60.00 for it without complaining.
You actually have a really good point there, as much as I hate to admit it. While I still think that some of the hate I hear about games is made from jaded gamers that expect too much, I'll be damned if you don't make a good argument.tiamat5 said:
THERE IS ROOM for games that are not your definition of a good game- Games that are geared specifically towards one market and not everyone. And there is NO art form which propagates nothing but masterpieces.
Oh, and I'll swear if I fucking want to goddamn swear.
Its because we have grown up. Kids of today will say the same that no other FPS has Crysis like vegetation and they all suck ass compared to the god of FPS, Crysis.
People grow up and we expect more and more after playing for a certain period of time. Innovation takes time. Be patient and enjoy the games that interest you.
People grow up and we expect more and more after playing for a certain period of time. Innovation takes time. Be patient and enjoy the games that interest you.