Have we forgotten how to be ladies and gentlemen?

[BRex21]

I definitely fit the category of dapper. Gentleman may be a different story. I do most of the corporate relations work for my project so, suit and tie when that comes up and honestly I love them, and its hard to take people seriously when they don't dress for their job. Personally I'm polite unless you give me reason not to be and quite frankly I don't understand people who aren't. I meet far to many people who think they can dress as they want, act like they want and still expect all the respect of a police upstanding lady/gentleman
Although one thing I've learned is that the silk 3 piece is the male equivalent of the strapless tube top and miniskirt.

 

[Panda Mania]

I wish people were (1) more honest, and (2) more reasonable.

The reason I would object to the courtesy of ages past is that it often obscures the true, unpolished character of a person. Yes, we might make nice, but what if we actually hated each other? Let's be honest about who we are and what we feel. However, the reality of human unpleasantness is hard to reconcile with my second wish. You could say I wish all interaction to be honest, yet calm, reasonable, and respectful. In that sense, I guess it does approach Victorian genteelness--no fist fights or backstabbing, ladies and gentlemen. If you wish to express your dislike, do so in an eloquent and effective (yet non-extreme) way. Unreasoning actions will not be tolerated.

When we look back, those Victorian attitudes may appear charming, but they also could conceal the festering racism, sexism, and other forms of prejudice and hatred that lay beneath the politeness. Things weren't exactly politically correct back then. If we want to revive the gentleman and the lady from those days, we will have to eliminate the unacceptable parts of the persona. No snobbery. No belief in others' inferiority. The modern man and the modern woman consider all to be equal.

As for your points on dress, you, sir, are welcome to adopt the handsome jacket, hat, and pocketwatch of the Victorian gentleman. But for God's sake, don't expect us women to start donning the corsets, petticoats, and hoopskirts. If you take offense to the revealing clothing of today, express your distaste for the wearer's choice in attire. But do not confuse dress with their character. Remember, as a gentleman, you are to be respectful in all situations. What someone has on does not earn one's eternal disgust for that person.

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

I was quite the gentleman today... I held a fart in for 3 hours because my girlfriend surprised me with a visit... No time to prepare and get the gas out.

OT
Back in the day of fancy finery and monocles ect ect... only the few who where fortunate enought to be born into a rich white family would be well off. Everyone else was dirt poor. There was no middle class. I'm in quite a comfortable position at the moment. But I wouldn't if we went back 100 or so years.

 

[Colour Scientist]

It's just a personal opinion, I don't particularly mind the way people dress to be honest, that's not my issue here at all, but if say, a black person like myself was pulled over for looking shady, I think they have no one else to blame but themselves if they are wearing a hood over their head, cap and bopping everywhere, its wrong, but that's the stereotype and you are meeting it

I don't understand how you think it's a person's fault for getting pulled over for wearing a hood, a hat and listening to music. Surely the person at fault in that scenario is the person doing the stereotyping. Stereotypes like this exist, obviously, but why should someone change their personal taste to suit the prejudices of others?

in the same way that dressing revealing and demanding to be seen as a lady is laughable to me, because if THAT is what a 'lady' is, then I see that as insulting to women who try to be more than just a sex symbol and dressing half naked to me is just that, attention seeking for a sexual purpose, why else would you want to reveal everything unless you wanted to be a nudist. If so, then just come out and say it, I'm all for freedom.

I also find it pretty stupid that one should refer to them self as a slut, that would be like me referring to myself as a n****r, which would also be stupid considering the term is used to lower a human being to that of filth.

Well that depends on how you define what a "lady" is. My definition is probably a world away from yours.
Also the "I'm all for freedom" seems a little laughable given the nature of the ideals you want to restore in society.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, the first thing I must say, of course, is that there is no 'we' in this discussion. There is you and me and all these other people. It is not a collective unconscious event that all human beings may or or may not have forgotten to behave. It is that some ill-mannered and some are not. That's breeding for you. We can argue over nature versus nurture, but in the end you have to understand that this overarching term of 'everyone' being affected is highly in accurate. I mean, myself for instance...

...can be quite gentlemanly indeed.

 

[maninahat]

Lots of sexism recently, if it isn't the big dispute about slutfest, rape or penis' being cut off, its the behaviour of sexes in general. Women demand basic respect and chivalry and men demand to not all be put into the same bracket, but do you think we've all just forgotten the basic elements of being a gentleman or a lady.

I prefer the way people looked in the old days, they looked so respectable in their fine outfits and beautiful dresses, or so media leads you to believe, either way, its a nice thought that everyone could behave that way.

Today we have females wearing skimpy outfits and demanding to be respected by men no matter what they wear, personally, I'm sorry, but I can't respect you dressed like that because it's clear you don't respect yourself, how can I see you as anything other than what you present yourself to be, slaggy, it certainly wouldn't be appropriate for a guy to walk around in a gimp outfit or have his ballbags hanging from his pants "to tease". As for guys, are we too influenced by the nonsense our other male friends get us into? This whole ego trip and comparisons to be "the cool one with the most chicks".

So yeah, what do you think escapists, have some or most people forgotten how to be 'appropriate' or is the world just evolving? Would you prefer a world where people were more upstanding or do you like the variety we have now?

The way people dressed back in the day was often a direct consequence of the sexual repression of the time. Women wore long skirts because they were not permitted to wear trousers, and any implication that the women enjoyed casual sex had to be curtailed, hence skirts long enough to hide any sexual features (knees thighs etc.). For guys, felt suits and hats are largely impractical in a hot climate, so it is just as well that wearing suits all day everyday has fallen out of practise. The idea that a man is more than just his outfit is fairly key nowerdays, especially due to advanced telecommunication, meaning one can be a capable business leader without ever having to see their clients face to face.

So though I like those old suits as well, they represent a less developed, more repressive time of strict gender and social rules. Our current outfits are based on pragmatism, or on freedom of sexual politics. It is about time that clothes took a back seat to establishing the importance of a person.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

The past was shit.

For everyone

Bonus shityness if you were born not a white Christain male.

And you had to be the "right" kind of Christain.

NO! Not that one!

Yes, that one.


Also, people did have a few "obscene" outfits even back then. Though people didn't wear them as much as people wear the ones today.

 

[Makon]

Honestly, I think trying to base people's personalities and level of intellect off of solely their clothing choices is a foolish effort. It's amusing that we look back at the world before and go "Remember how we used to dress so formal and appropriate back then?" or such. In reality, back then, the vast majority of us, even you OP, would be considered inappropriate and uncouth by everything from what we wear, how we behave in public, what we listen to and watch, ect.

'Society' is a tricky thing; it's always changing and evolving. The world I myself know today is a far different place than ten years ago, or even five years ago in terms of social etiquette. I think also, as anyone else who's worked retail before can back me up on, just because someone dresses up nice as a 'proper gentleman or lady', doesn't mean they ACTUALLY are a gentleman or lady. Back in my time in retail, I've had properly dressed men and women hurl curses and pull tons of shit, whereas I've had guys dress like they crawled out of a dumpster opening and holding doors for ladies, giving proper 'Thank you's and 'Your welcome's, and overall being very respectable and polite.

Take me for example. Most people I meet say that I am well-mannered and respectable. I also wear jeans every day, and my work shirts are basic polo's, while my casuals are a bunch of basic t-shirts from a bag. I also have one pair a shoes, some ankle-boots that are getting a bit on the worn side. Just because I dress very casual doesn't mean that I can not be a well-mannered and respectful man.

tl;dr: Society's dress-code is fine, get over it.

 

[Sojoez]

Funny, I always try to be nice. I hold doors open for ladies and elderly, I speak in plural to unknown people, I give my seat away for elderly, pregnant and handicapped and I don't mind helping someone when he needs it.
And the only reward for me is their gratefulness.
Sometimes I joke that I'm an endangered species, the last gentlemen.

It was how I was brought up and how I think the world should be. Polite and kind.


That being said, my love life is a pile of shit! 2 relationships that didn't last longer then a month and every girl I get to know always tells me that she'd rather be friends. And no... not with benefits.
"You are so kind, I wish all men where like you. You are too kind for me though."



..*****.

(Apologies to the female Escapists)

 

[orangeban]

No, sorry OP, but your wrong. People deserve to be respected in whatever they wear. Just because a woman happens to be wearing something skimpy, doesn't mean she doesn't respect herself, and not respecting people based on assumptions you make, is also wrong.

Oh, and you don't get to decide what everyone should wear based on what you happen to like.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I prefer the way people looked in the old days, they looked so respectable in their fine outfits and beautiful dresses

while dying of heat exhaustion . . .

Out of curiosity, how would you feel on men in those dresses?

Lol, men had to wear the full suit as well yaknow, its just as stuffy.

Obviously I'm exaggerating, I don't expect us all to revert back to that, I'm just saying I 'personally prefer' those days, but there are still nicely dressed self respecting people today, there is nothing wrong with a frilly dress or even shorts and jeans on a female and males in anything that can be seen as 'fine'.

What I don't personally like is skirts that look like belts, g-strings coming over the top of the trousers, bras hanging out of tops, that sort of stuff. Even then, basic manners is also a sign of a respectable person. I can't tell you the amount of times I've felt to curse someone for spitting near me, smoking in my face, pushing in front of me etc. It drives me mad.


AND THIS ALL HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH CULTURE, RACE, YOUR FASHION STYLE etc. Just very basic things that a surprising number of people lack.

Hmmmmm....

Ok. What if some people still dress like tools and sluts, but EVERYONE acts like a lady or a gentlemen?

Would that be enough?

Personally, I would wear a full suit every day if I could.

 

[Dr. wonderful]

I guess that's a symptom of this change. If a guy does anything nice for a girl, he must want to get in her pants. It's a shame really.

It was especially awkward and ironic because I'm gay.

These days I'm scared to hold a door open for women, in case I offend one of the few fanatical feminists out there.

Yeah, I almost expect to hear a snide "I can manage the door by myself," rather than the polite "thanks" I got from other kids and teachers in school. What happened to politeness?

Shit, at least someone talks to you.

People looks at me, like I'm about to kill them.

 

[Tanakh]

@ OP:

I think you are misplacing the source of chivalry, gallantry and romance.

It is not about the dress, it's all about how you built the relationship with the girl and what you are looking for. Of course how the girl dresses count, if you are looking for a one night stand the obvious hints of a lightly dressed girl should be perused and the standard "can I buy you a drink" is recommended, but if you are not and try to flirt in a more romantic way most woman (in my experience) will catch the hint and be themselves a lot more ladylike.

Of course you should also express initiative, passive guys are extremely boring according to my female friends, but if you since the beginning set up the tempo to give time to a nice night at the theater or to write her some verses she will most probably respond with a fresh ladylike attitude, or at least thats my experience.

What i mean is, being a lady or a gentleman has little to do with the clothes, and if you want that, build the relationship from the beginning towards it.


Edit: Fun overlooked fact, we are different with each girl we meet, SO ARE THE GIRLS. Build relationships you like with em, dont be a passive moron.

 

[Bebus]

To be honest, I am not sure the old days you speak of ever existed. No doubt for every 1920s gentleman you met you were equally likely to be knifed and left in a gutter.

You still meet respectful and polite people these days. You still get witty and intelligent conversation in the most random places. But it doesn't come knocking, and judging people by something as arbitrary as what they wear (and even to some extent their lifestyle) is a sure way to miss out meeting some of the best people out there.

No doubt it sounds anecdotal to back up my point, but my opinion comes from experience. One of the greatest men I ever met was awkward, ungainly, dressed (and smelled) like a hobo and to be honest quite rude. But this was largely down to a deep rooted shyness; once you got to know him he was both strong and gentle when it really mattered. One of my best female friends is what some might call a total slut. She dresses like a hooker and sleeps with a different guy every few days. But she is also one of the wittiest and genuinely nicest people I know, will fight tooth and nail for her friends and is unfailingly polite to strangers, which as you can imagine nets funny looks when people see how she dresses.

People aren't simple. The 'gentleman' you idolise might have been polite and upstanding, but could equally be dull as hell and wife beaters to boot. The 'ladies' probably slept with the stable boy because they were so oppressed.

I would rather hang out with people who are comfortable with what they are than those who pretend to be something else in public. If you stop worrying about silly things like clothes and just do/wear what you want, suddenly going out into public becomes a hilarious pastime; watching people strut, pretend to be nice for some ulterior motive and dress like fools, all the while their personalities struggle to get through.

 

[sheah1]

Hmm, I like the idea of dressing to express yourself, but I can't really find clothes that I believe would express... me? That was a weird sentence.... So, like a prior poster, I find myself falling back on geek-culture reference t-shirts, even though I'm not a big fan of that particular look. So, yeah, it's good in theory, just not for everyone.

 

[PorkChopXpress]

My opinion, as far as dressing a certain way and chivalry being dead...

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[rutger5000]

How to show respect differs from time to time from culture to culture. Ergo wearing skanky clothing doesn't necessarily means you don't respect yourself, and formalities do not equal respect.
However this doesn't mean that respect is something arbritrair, and there are basic and common ways to show and demand it. In that regard I do think we're forgetting how to be ladies and gentlemen. I myself am glad that girls are forgetting to be ladies, as I find it simpely demeaning to oneself and the world to be acting like a lady. Gentlemen are a whole different story though, I'm proudly call myself a gentlemen and I think of it as a great compliment to be called like that.
The best way I feel a modern woman could is as pretty much a female gentleman. I do believe however that women and men ought to be treated differently, so women shouldn't completly be acting like gentlemen, but you get the idea.
People might find it sexist that I tread women more gentle then men, I find it abbsurd to assault one on such actions. I tread both properly, but women with just a bit more care. This is not because I think less or more of them, but because I'm comfortable doing it.

 

[Canid117]

Ha! I laugh at your rose tinted view of what never really existed in the first place!

 

[EmpressZombiKitty]

I prefer the way people looked in the old days, they looked so respectable in their fine outfits and beautiful dresses

while dying of heat exhaustion . . .

Out of curiosity, how would you feel on men in those dresses?

I was thinking that myself. I don't know the extent of the people's opinion on 'slutty', but on a 90+ degree day, nothing beats a flowing sundress or a pair of shorts and a tank-top.

 

[AngryMongoose]

I think you should see a surgeon to remove that stick so firmly lodged in your ass.

I'd go into full on rant mode, but it just seems like ur trollin'.