Have We No Shame?

[TheMatt]

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

World war 1

I think I went at this the wrong way. So yes, you are correct.

how bout the middle east? how about the 15+ murders and bombings of abortion clinics. War in Somalia? Russians vs Georgia?

It's ALL religion.

Frankly I think it was very rude of you to say "let's hope we're mature enough to not blame this on religion" when this is so obviously a religious issue.

When they bombed 3 clinics on Christmas Day they called it a gift for Jesus. So gimme a break.

Wrong. All wrong.

Religion is not to blame for this. Man is. He takes part in religion, so Man is to blame. Get rid of religion, and man will simply find something else to fight over.

IT's sad that humanity works that way, but it's true. As much as you hate religion, it's not all bad.

ok, so the pope is God's representative on Earth right? In true Catholic doctrine we're not even allowed to speak to him directly (God that is). He is, again by doctrine, infallible. how come at one point there were 2 of them? How about how the church acted during WW2 and persecution of the Jews? How about the crusades?

Infallible my ass. Man is to blame? i thought he was god's representative? You cannot have it both ways.

 

[TheMushroomClub]

Abortion is difficult. When you immediately say anything people snap at you and you become hated forever. That's why I won't say anything about the morals of abortion. Religion is about being nice, not stopping people from stopping people from having babies.

 

[asinann]

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

World war 1

I think I went at this the wrong way. So yes, you are correct.

how bout the middle east? how about the 15+ murders and bombings of abortion clinics. War in Somalia? Russians vs Georgia?

It's ALL religion.

Frankly I think it was very rude of you to say "let's hope we're mature enough to not blame this on religion" when this is so obviously a religious issue.

When they bombed 3 clinics on Christmas Day they called it a gift for Jesus. So gimme a break.

No, this is just a bunch of psychopaths killing people over religion. This is no reason to blame religion. Blame the idiots who use it as an excuse to kill people.

Also, why the hell would you blame the war between Russia and Georgia on religion? That makes no sense. People are killed all the time for many reasons aside from religion.

Ask almost any religious person about this crime. They will tell you that it is horrible. This is just one group of psychopaths that are killing because of religion. Again, if someone killed a priest because they believed in God, would you blame it on Charles Darwin?

Read the bible much? Most of the old testament tells you to hate things because god hates them. The same all loving god that is in the new testament.

If the bible wasn't an established religious document and hadn't been for 1500 years, people wouldn't follow it NOW. Read it objectively and you will see how arbitrary and insane the book sounds. Like all other religions before it, when it finally get phased out people will laugh at it's lack of believability.

I am aware of the content in the Bible.

But do you think every single Christian follows the Bible word for word? Clearly George Tiller was religious. Do you think he followed every word of the Bible?

You CAN'T follow every word of the bible, it contradicts itself too often. And if you don't follow the doctrine and "word of god" to the letter you aren't actually a follower of the faith. To believe and have faith that the word is correct and true you must follow and believe ALL OF IT to be true. Stop picking what you want to believe in there and follow the whole thing like you're supposed to.

 

[pigeon_of_doom]

It gets worse [http://www.armyofgod.com/]

One propaganda website that looks like it was cobbled together by one person with a limited understanding of html doesn't really demonstrate anything except their existence. These people showing a flagrant disregard for the life they claim to cherish cannot claim to stand for a Christian viewpoint (although they may believe themselves to be acting in their church's interest), so placing the blame on the religion they technically follow is the wrong action. While I don't think the OP helped matters much with a slightly sprawling opening post, it's a shame to see this degenerate into yet another religious flame-war when there was a half interesting topic about extremism to debate.

 

[Pendragon9]

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

World war 1

I think I went at this the wrong way. So yes, you are correct.

how bout the middle east? how about the 15+ murders and bombings of abortion clinics. War in Somalia? Russians vs Georgia?

It's ALL religion.

Frankly I think it was very rude of you to say "let's hope we're mature enough to not blame this on religion" when this is so obviously a religious issue.

When they bombed 3 clinics on Christmas Day they called it a gift for Jesus. So gimme a break.

Wrong. All wrong.

Religion is not to blame for this. Man is. He takes part in religion, so Man is to blame. Get rid of religion, and man will simply find something else to fight over.

IT's sad that humanity works that way, but it's true. As much as you hate religion, it's not all bad.

ok, so the pope is God's representative on Earth right? In true Catholic doctrine we're not even allowed to speak to him directly (God that is). He is, again by doctrine, infallible. how come at one point there were 2 of them? How about how the church acted during WW2 and persecution of the Jews? How about the crusades?

Infallible my ass. Man is to blame? i thought he was god's representative? You cannot have it both ways.

Those are the crazy catholics. And I agree with you. They go out of line way too much.

If anything, you've proved my point. Man has twisted Catholicism and other religions so people get to be in power, bossing others around. Don't blame God for it.

Though I have a feeling you'll blame him anyway, or call me a nutjob who's just as bad as the killer.

Go on. I've heard it before.

 

[dontworryaboutit]

It gets worse [http://www.armyofgod.com/]

One propaganda website that looks like it was cobbled together by one person with a limited understanding of html doesn't really demonstrate anything except their existence. These people showing a flagrant disregard for the life they claim to cherish cannot claim to stand for a Christian viewpoint, so placing the blame on the religion they technically follow is the wrong action.

This is exactly true. Condemning an entire system just because of the actions of one man is ridiculous. If George Tiller had been black, I am pretty certain quite a few of you blaming religion for this would be pointing the finger at the KKK instead. And you'd be just as wrong then as you are now.

 

[TheMatt]

Those are the crazy catholics. And I agree with you. They go out of line way too much.

Dude, come on. That is such a cheesy argument. It;'s not religion, it's man. Well then how come so many ppl are fucked up BECAUSE of religion? crazy baptists like the ones that were on that god forsaken site posted earlier in this thread.

Muslim extremists? The Stupid fucking IRA? it's ALL religion. oh wait, cough, man's interpretation of religion. There's a cause, then there's a root cause, my friend. Religion, is the root cause.

 

[TheMatt]

It gets worse [http://www.armyofgod.com/]

One propaganda website that looks like it was cobbled together by one person with a limited understanding of html doesn't really demonstrate anything except their existence. These people showing a flagrant disregard for the life they claim to cherish cannot claim to stand for a Christian viewpoint, so placing the blame on the religion they technically follow is the wrong action.

This is exactly true. Condemning an entire system just because of the actions of one man is ridiculous. If George Tiller had been black, I am pretty certain quite a few of you blaming religion for this would be pointing the finger at the KKK instead.

How is it ONE man? As I mentioned how about the 10 other doctors who have been killed? The bombings of the clinics named "A gift for jesus"

One man, my ass.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

World war 1

I think I went at this the wrong way. So yes, you are correct.

how bout the middle east? how about the 15+ murders and bombings of abortion clinics. War in Somalia? Russians vs Georgia?

It's ALL religion.

Frankly I think it was very rude of you to say "let's hope we're mature enough to not blame this on religion" when this is so obviously a religious issue.

When they bombed 3 clinics on Christmas Day they called it a gift for Jesus. So gimme a break.

Wrong. All wrong.

Religion is not to blame for this. Man is. He takes part in religion, so Man is to blame. Get rid of religion, and man will simply find something else to fight over.

IT's sad that humanity works that way, but it's true. As much as you hate religion, it's not all bad.

ok, so the pope is God's representative on Earth right? In true Catholic doctrine we're not even allowed to speak to him directly (God that is). He is, again by doctrine, infallible. how come at one point there were 2 of them? How about how the church acted during WW2 and persecution of the Jews? How about the crusades?

Infallible my ass. Man is to blame? i thought he was god's representative? You cannot have it both ways.

You're such a bitter person. I hate how some people to feel the need to undermine the beliefs of others in order to make themselves feel superior. In essence, you really are no different than the fanatics in the Middle East.

Also, are you blaming the persecution of Jews during WW2 on Christianity?

 

[dontworryaboutit]

Dude, come on. That is such a cheesy argument. It;'s not religion, it's man. Well then how come so many ppl are fucked up BECAUSE of religion? crazy baptists like the ones that were on that god forsaken site posted earlier in this thread.

Muslim extremists? The Stupid fucking IRA? it's ALL religion. oh wait, cough, man's interpretation of religion. There's a cause, then there's a root cause, my friend. Religion, is the root cause.

Call me a liar but I'm pretty sure the IRA was looking for freedom from British rule. Unless I'm missing something here.

It gets worse [http://www.armyofgod.com/]

One propaganda website that looks like it was cobbled together by one person with a limited understanding of html doesn't really demonstrate anything except their existence. These people showing a flagrant disregard for the life they claim to cherish cannot claim to stand for a Christian viewpoint, so placing the blame on the religion they technically follow is the wrong action.

This is exactly true. Condemning an entire system just because of the actions of one man is ridiculous. If George Tiller had been black, I am pretty certain quite a few of you blaming religion for this would be pointing the finger at the KKK instead.

How is it ONE man? As I mentioned how about the 10 other doctors who have been killed? The bombings of the clinics named "A gift for jesus"

One man, my ass.

You're still condemning the ENTIRE religion for this. Are we to believe the entire religion is part of a massive conspiracy theory?

 

[sonidraw]

You know what? Killing children is for the greater good, at this point and time saves resources for those who already live.

Since when did we care about the greater good? :-/

Am I the only one who subscribes to the belief that killing someone who can't defend themselves is murder no matter what the cause? And I'm against the death penalty too, if anyone is wondering.

 

[Spirultima]

Ok, i support abortion in circumstances, but this is stupid, why would you kill someone like that? I think there was more to it personally, it DOES seems far fetched to kill someone over believes in this day and age in places like England, america, Europe and Australia.

Also im not a religious at all, i think grow ups with imaginary friends aren't cool, but i let the religious people live how they want (but when the religious types shove non-sense into my face THEN i react) and i hope vice versa.

If this is religion based, that person is blinded by religion on this matter. This would be my punishment, get the person raped, and make them live by there own views, imagine the sorrow that your tending to a part of someone who had ill will to you.

Finally life begins when memory starts, thats my belief anyway.

 

[TheMatt]

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

World war 1

I think I went at this the wrong way. So yes, you are correct.

how bout the middle east? how about the 15+ murders and bombings of abortion clinics. War in Somalia? Russians vs Georgia?

It's ALL religion.

Frankly I think it was very rude of you to say "let's hope we're mature enough to not blame this on religion" when this is so obviously a religious issue.

When they bombed 3 clinics on Christmas Day they called it a gift for Jesus. So gimme a break.

Wrong. All wrong.

Religion is not to blame for this. Man is. He takes part in religion, so Man is to blame. Get rid of religion, and man will simply find something else to fight over.

IT's sad that humanity works that way, but it's true. As much as you hate religion, it's not all bad.

ok, so the pope is God's representative on Earth right? In true Catholic doctrine we're not even allowed to speak to him directly (God that is). He is, again by doctrine, infallible. how come at one point there were 2 of them? How about how the church acted during WW2 and persecution of the Jews? How about the crusades?

Infallible my ass. Man is to blame? i thought he was god's representative? You cannot have it both ways.

You're such a bitter person. I hate how some people to feel the need to undermine the beliefs of others in order to make themselves feel superior. In essence, you really are no different than the fanatics in the Middle East.

Also, are you blaming the persecution of Jews during WW2 on Christianity?

Woh, talk about selective interpretation much? So, just because I think religious zealots are bad, that makes me Al-queda? Awesome argument there buddy. Well done.

No, I am condemning the actions of the catholic church during WW2. When did i say they caused it? stop putting words in my mouth and have an argument based on facts pls.

Enough Hyperbole.

 

[Ancientgamer]

On the one hand, this is awful. Blatant murder. Let me clarify this my stance. This is a horrible event, And I hope that if the guy gets caught he receives full possible punishment.

On the other hand though. Tiller Practiced Late-term abortion. (IE. drilling a hole through the fully formed babies skull, very soon before birth.) Which in my eyes makes him a murderer as well. Serial killer infact. Who's killed hundreds of children.

And now pro abortion people have a martyr. Oh joy. And he was just the most outspoken doctor at his clinic, so it's not like doing this will affect anything

I'm hoping that we are mature enough not to blame this on religion.

Actually no, I cannot. In fact I am surprised to even see this post. Of COURSE this was some religious nut from the south. It always is with you Americans.

Wasn't the last guy who did this sort of thing (he sniped them if i remember correctly, 5-10 yrs ago now) some crazy baptist?

First of all, it doesn't even say that the person who killed him was a religious nut. It gives little detail about the person that killed him. Don't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, you can't blame religion for the actions of one psychopath. It's not religions fault that this man decided to kill George Tiller. If a man who believe in natural selection shot a priest, do we blame Charles Darwin?

All the crazy shit IN THE WORLD is caused by religion. Prove me wrong if you can, honestly.

My premise - ALL the "bad" stuff that happens in the world is because of religion. All of it.

Ok, I just thought of one that isn't, North Korea, that's purely political. ok, so ALL of it except that one.

Most wars in history were fought over land. Most murders and such are committed by interpersonal arguments. Most sociopathic killers were atheists who believed there are no morals and no point to life. (And took that to it's logical extreme.)

 

[TheMatt]

Dude, come on. That is such a cheesy argument. It;'s not religion, it's man. Well then how come so many ppl are fucked up BECAUSE of religion? crazy baptists like the ones that were on that god forsaken site posted earlier in this thread.

Muslim extremists? The Stupid fucking IRA? it's ALL religion. oh wait, cough, man's interpretation of religion. There's a cause, then there's a root cause, my friend. Religion, is the root cause.

Call me a liar but I'm pretty sure the IRA was looking for freedom from British rule. Unless I'm missing something here.

That was their "mission statement" yes, but why was the country divided up like it was?

Catholics to the south, Protestants (same as England) to the north. it's a VERY religious conflict.

 

[Pendragon9]

Those are the crazy catholics. And I agree with you. They go out of line way too much.

Dude, come on. That is such a cheesy argument. It;'s not religion, it's man. Well then how come so many ppl are fucked up BECAUSE of religion? crazy baptists like the ones that were on that god forsaken site posted earlier in this thread.

Muslim extremists? The Stupid fucking IRA? it's ALL religion. oh wait, cough, man's interpretation of religion. There's a cause, then there's a root cause, my friend. Religion, is the root cause.

What is your problem? Are you so uptight that you have to undermine everyone's beliefs to feel better?

I agree with Internet Kraken. You really are sounding like the fanatics of the Middle East.

Edit: I also agree with Vivaldi. Tiller didn't deserve to be killed, but late term abortion is still murder.

 

[Guvnorium]

This news just reinforced my belief that Americans need to round up all the religious lunatics and pro-life extremists and dump them into a state of their own. And permanently seal the borders. Let them live like they want to, but without the right to leave said state. Sure, it infringes on human rights, but so is shooting a man in a fracking church just becasue he takes the life of the philosophically-problematic faetus.

We call it "Alabama". We just haven't sealed the boarder yet...

And I don't blame religeon for all the worlds problems. Just aproximatly half of them, making it the biggest single contributer. I blame all the worlds problems on single minded monopolizing beleif systems, not just religeon. (Although it is a big contributer.) I consider myslef Pro-Choice, but I respect and understand Pro-Lifers. And I am against late term abortion in all but nessesary cases.

And look at what happened in the UU church over the summer. A man shot several people....because they beleived in gay rights. Yeah. Us Americans are nutjobs. Especially in the south. I blame the hummidity. (Joke.)

 

[Mr. Socky]

I'm a baptist, and I think this guy was a freaking moron. I hate anybody from any religion that uses "God wills it" to go after something that they don't like. I personally am against abortion, but killing to avoid killing?

 

[dontworryaboutit]

Most wars in history were fought over land. Most murders and such are committed by interpersonal arguments. Most sociopathic killers were atheists who believed there are no morals and no point to life. (And took that to it's logical extreme.)

Thank you for this.

 

[TheMatt]

Those are the crazy catholics. And I agree with you. They go out of line way too much.

Dude, come on. That is such a cheesy argument. It;'s not religion, it's man. Well then how come so many ppl are fucked up BECAUSE of religion? crazy baptists like the ones that were on that god forsaken site posted earlier in this thread.

Muslim extremists? The Stupid fucking IRA? it's ALL religion. oh wait, cough, man's interpretation of religion. There's a cause, then there's a root cause, my friend. Religion, is the root cause.

What is your problem? Are you so uptight that you have to undermine everyone's beliefs to feel better?

I agree with Internet Kraken. You really are sounding like the fanatics of the Middle East.

Yah, I strap on suicide vests all the time. So, you guys have no points for me to argue against so you're reduced to calling me Al-Queda. Well done.

Anyway, if there are no more VALID points to be made, I quit.

Have a good day all.