Have you heard of a "Homosexual Therapist?"
- Thread starter Jacco
- Start date
Recommended Videos
On point one, how is that your choice? Let's assume it's self destructive. I'm sure you're lining up to prevent people from eating fattining foods. After all, it won't work for them and could very well harm them in the long run. Orrrrr do we allow adults to make choices in their life? Mmmm?orangeban said:
As for point two, I don't mean to sound rude, but get over yourself. You are saying "His argument makes us look bad and does us a disservice". Again, that's a piss weak excuse to mess with what two consenting adults do. "Nope. You can only have OUR opinion" sounds like what you are saying. Right or not, that reaks more of "We cannot convince people we are right. Thus, we must attack other viewpoints"
The problem with sexuality is that we place too much importance on it. I currently don't watch or follow any sports. If I were to get into baseball at age 50, would you say I was always a baseball fan and just didn't know it? Conversely, we HAVE to be born gay or straight and nothing past the womb is allowed to factor into that decision (as some think, not placing that on you).OmniscientOstrich said:
In the end, every single sexual act you participate in is a choice. That should determine your "orientation," not the other way around.
Fine, screw my second argument. But your point about fatty foods doesn't stand up. People eat fatty foods because it's nice, and they like it. A better comparison is, say, a therapist who claims to make people super-slim (and teaches typical anorexic style activities). What the therapist is teaching is dangerous stuff, and we shouldn't allow the person to do that.CM156 said:
I think what people are concerned about are the idea that he may be teaching people to lie to themselves, which rarely leads to any kind of real happiness. Less about accepting your sexuality or denying it, more about fixating on a societal norm so you don't stand out. I had to heavily compartmentalize my life when I was younger because I was bisexual and my father is extremely homophobic. It sort of messed with my head. Now, people who feel gay, but don't want to, have to have a reason they don't want to - and if they're feeling gay already, then... what's the reason? I mean. Ask a straight guy if he'd like to stop thinking about boobs or something. Forever. What would make him want to?
Mostly, though, this just reminded me of Anne McCaffrey's "tent-peg theory." I can't remember the exact story, but Anne McCaffrey, for anyone who doesn't know, is the one who wrote all the Dragonriders of Pern books. Her male friend got raped with a tent peg while camping and later turned out to be gay. Her belief is that being brutally raped by a tent-peg made him gay and that it was a decent theory to apply to gay men overall.
The... closeness to mother/gay abuse concept in this just made me think of that.
Mostly, though, this just reminded me of Anne McCaffrey's "tent-peg theory." I can't remember the exact story, but Anne McCaffrey, for anyone who doesn't know, is the one who wrote all the Dragonriders of Pern books. Her male friend got raped with a tent peg while camping and later turned out to be gay. Her belief is that being brutally raped by a tent-peg made him gay and that it was a decent theory to apply to gay men overall.
The... closeness to mother/gay abuse concept in this just made me think of that.
Wrong. You're assuming that not being born a certain sexuality means that they have to choose it. What if they grow into it? I'm a perfect example. Used to be straight. Utterly. Didn't have any homosexual urges, found guys not the least bit attractive, was pretty much your average straight guy (it wasn't like I didn't like women either, it was obvious to me that I did). But after a while of certain experiences I slowly began to find certain males attractive. Sexually. Right now I'd classify myself as a pansexual. And I would definitely would not have done that several years ago.OmniscientOstrich said:
Now I'm not saying that everyone starts out straight and then becomes homosexual. I wouldn't be surprised if many developed directly into homosexual. But my belief is that people can have their orientation change. It isn't often, probably because people are so focused on liking what their sexual orientation should rather than just liking whatever, that any experiences that might make them otherwise are denied and repressed; but I still believe it's possible.
OT: I can see where this guy is coming from, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were people he could truly help deal with damaging memories that have them acting weird, but something like that is so murky that it can be hard to tell who really is just being messed up by harmful memories and who is just trying to deny their real feelings. Make the wrong distinction could end up fucking the person who came for help more than they were before by making them even more confused about themself.
I honestly don't see the harm here. If he only helps people that don't *want* to be gay, then where is the harm? It is their decision. Does the fact that someone else doesn't want to live the same way you do sting so much? There are plenty of people that don't believe in pre-marital abstinence, but I don't let it fuck up my day. As long as he isn't trying to change you, personally, against your will, then leave the poor guy alone.
Gladly, dear reader. Gladlyorangeban said:
"What the therapist is teaching is dangerous stuff, and we shouldn't allow the person to do that". I'm sure that has been said about a lot of historical figures. Darwin, for example. Say what you will about the man, replace "therapist" with "scientis" and you get the same result. If we didn't allow people to state "dangerous stuff" we'd still be living in caves.
If what he is doing is making homosexual people feel better about themselves, more power to him, but if he is trying to get them to "get over it" or "cure" it. I have issues. it's (and my gay friends will testify this) NOT a disease, just the way people are wired.
also, I only listen to 105.9 during the Slacker and Steve show, otherwise 93.3 is the way to go.
also, I only listen to 105.9 during the Slacker and Steve show, otherwise 93.3 is the way to go.
The implication that I got from this guy is that he thinks that sexual orientation is a choice and that he is erroneously claiming that he could be able to change their orientation for them. If this is the case I think he is a repugnant or horrendously misguided human being. It could be possible that he did not articulate himself clearly and he merely want's to help people discover their sexuality and help them through their troubles in a manner that is actually practical. I find it baffling that someone who is Bisexual would claim that sexuality can be a choice and I find it arrogant of you to claim that your orientation is natural but others may not be. You can emulate a black guy all you want, you can even get melonoma risking tan to look black, but your gentics have made you ethnically white. A gay person pretending to be straight in the long run is only going to cause emotional damage for himself and sham wife. If he is truly happy and romantically and sexually attracted to a woman then I would say he isn't gay but Bi all along. Science has yet to nail down the cause, that's fair enough but the general concensus among most experts in the field is that sexual orientation is not a choice and that it can not be changed. That's what I was arguing.AdeptaSororitas said:
Perhaps, dear reader. Perhaps. But again, his statment is more something people state when their ideas are becoming obsolete in an attempt to say "We need things the way they are". It moreso sounds like "We can't convince people we are right. Thus, we must attack the source of why they think differnet"Emily Boogades said:
Do not compare this to Darwin. There are huge gulfs between Darwin and my scenario. What Darwin theorized was revolutionary and controversial, but not outright unhealthy. If we go back to my anorexia therapist, the person there is making unhealthy things with no benefit seem like a legitimate argument.CM156 said:
Homosexual therapist dude isn't some scientist pioneering new ways of thinking, he's no Newton/Einstein/Darwin.
I like that analogy.CM156 said:
This is not a simple case of individual self-harm. This is one person exploiting other people (who, for reasons which are not their fault and are in fact very clearly other people's fault, happen to be extremely unhappy and desperate) for financial gain by essentially selling them a false promise.
It's actually worse than the above example, because at least that therapist has a reasonable chance of achieving his clients objectives albeit at enormous risk to their health. In this case he is offering desperate people hope which, going by every clinical trial in history, he cannot deliver on, and in all likelihood he is damaging them in the process and further reinforcing their negative self-perception.
I am not going to believe that one guy can do what the entire psychiatric profession with every method at its disposal and extremely limited ethics failed to do for a hundred years just because he can talk to people.. and if he has discovered a miraculous method which has eluded psychology for all that time, why hasn't he published it in a reputable journal where it can be independently peer reviewed and demonstrated to be effective and repeatable?
Sorry.. is the fact that the above question is rhetorical too obvious?
I honestly can't believe you made that comparison.CM156 said:
I'll say it again. If this guy is making progress, why have his methods and results not been published in a journal? Why are his methods not being peer reviewed by other professionals?
Darwin did not sell the theory of evolution piece by piece to neurotic people who desperately wanted to believe that humans are descended from apes. He published it through established academic channels so that other scientists could independently review his work and tests its validity and repeatability for themselves. That's how you generate knowledge, what this guy is doing is just how you generate money.
Putting yourself at personal risk for knowledge =/= putting others at risk to make a quick buck.
It's called psychological development, what the OP is trying to say is that he/she/Cthulhu does not believe there is a gay gene that predispositions a person to be attracted the same sex. Instead they subscribe to the idea one sexuality is a developmental process that is created during the formative years of a person's life. That certain experiences, or lack there of, are what determine if a person is gay or straight. In layman's terms it means that you cannot be born gay. That one's attraction to men or women is determined the same way that any other attraction is. (ex: A dislike of loud noises, or a bondage fetish) That being gay is part of a person's personality and is rooted deep within their subconscious just like any personality trait, not their genetics.Arcane Azmadi said:
You can't choose it, and you can't change it.
In case you're wondering, yes, I subscribe to this idea as well. Mainly because the claim that being gay is genetic is preposterous. If being gay were a matter of genetics then you would end up with entire family trees showing a disposition towards homosexuality. No, I don't think it's something to be cured; that's just as preposterous as it being genetic.(and an insult to sane thought to boot) I don't see anything wrong homosexuality, and I find it hard to fathom why what gender someone fancies matters at all. Surprisingly I was raised as a Catholic and I take huge issue with the anti-gay stance of the church. It literally contradicts everything I was taught in those agonizingly boring catechism classes every week as a child. I rant though, the disagreements I have with my religion are better suited for a different topic.