Help us create awareness for Steam's new refund policy and the issue with Godus

[Politrukk]

So on the Steam Forums we've finally been allowed a thread about claiming a refund for Godus due to the new steam policy on Refunds.

A large portion of the community would like the game to be removed from steam and refunds offered to those who are demanding it.

The reason for this is that the game is still in early access after several years and that the developers basically pulled the plug on the original title and revamped it into a mobile game that was then ported back to PC and that's not the product we bought when we started.

So people like me started to open tickets to claim refunds because....
Steam revamped their refund policy and that included a part in which they stated that "under special circumstances refunds will be considered".

Well this is what happened with my ticket with all this consideration.

Spoiler

This Question's Message(s)
1 Message by you on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 10:12
Hello there sir/madam.

As you may be aware the Early Access Title Godus has lost community support, 22 cans is facing troubles with their original kickstarter campaign and may be facing legal issues due to their handling of this game.

Godus the game that was initially promised via Kickstarter and then Steam is not the game that is in your Steam store today, this is a completely revised sucessor to the original concept that was being sold just continued under the same name.

Originally I was the person who tried to form a petition to have Godus removed from the steam store for this exact reason, because it simply isn't the same game anymore.

I'm not here to speculate about the production process although Godus has been at a standstill for months.
I'm here because I and a vast portion of the community with me feel cheated.

The 8 hours that I spent in this game were on the original build and if they would have released that original build as the actual game I may have been dissapointed but I wouldn't have asked for a refund, but they didn't they changed the rules.

In all but name Godus has gone from a PC title to a Mobile title and that is completely fine but not the game I signed up for when I bought it in early access.

That change in core mechanics was not touted in the steam store and I do not believe changing platforms is even included in the early access rules and if it isn't it very well should

Hence on my behalf and that of the community I would like to request a refund, supplemental evidence can be found all over the steam godus forums.

Kind Regards, Politrukk
2 Message by you on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 10:13
link to thread :
http://steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618463446166661798/
3 Message by Support Tech Clyde on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 10:40
Hello Koala,

Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

This purchase does not qualify for a refund.

Please review our refund policy:

http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds
4 Message by you on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 10:58
I Saw your refund policy it has been renewed and it poses that in special cases refund request can be up for revision.

The community is requesting a refund for this product, it would be kind of steam to look into this.

To be fair I'll just screenshot and hit send to the nearest gamepress site I can find if you don't take this seriously.


Revising policy may take time, but understanding your customers concern may also be a part of it.
5 Message by you on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 11:11
That's not a threat, I just assume the policy change and it's wording were either wrong , a PR stunt or a joke in that case and people deserve to know this.
6 Message by Support Tech Clyde on Wed, 3rd Jun 2015 11:38
Hello Koala,

As previously stated, this purchase does not qualify for a refund.

So obviously I'm rather disheartened by this and a lot of people are.

The steam thread I started can be found here : http://steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618463446166661798/?tscn=1433450132#p1

And although the thread isn't as big yet it's the first uncensored thread that's been allowed on that part of the steam forums.

If anyone has any ideas I,nay we, would love to hear them for the moment I just want to create awareness of the situation

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm of two minds.

On the one hand, Godus is one of the preeminent examples of the dangers of Kickstarter, represents a host of failed promises to backers, and reeks of underhand business practices.

On the other hand, come ON guys. How many times do you need to be Molyneauxed before you wise up?

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Early acess has always been buyer beware. You were paying to develop the game and development failed. This is why so many games come to us the community to fund it because businessmen who normally fund these things know to avoid risk(sometimes too much throwing away great prospects but they don't end up screwed by things like Godus)

 

[Politrukk]

Early acess has always been buyer beware. You were paying to develop the game and development failed. This is why so many games come to us the community to fund it because businessmen who normally find these things know to avoid risk(sometimes too much throwing away great prospects but they don't end up screwed by things like Godus)

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

Their unwillingness to pull the game from the steam store, to admit the game is no longer what it was meant to be is why we'd like a refund or in any case closure.

The refund policy is just our foot in the door.

 

[Fappy]

I'm of two minds.

On the one hand, Godus is one of the preeminent examples of the dangers of Kickstarter, represents a host of failed promises to backers, and reeks of underhand business practices.

On the other hand, come ON guys. How many times do you need to be Molyneauxed before you wise up?

Have you been watching Silicon Valley by chance? There was a recent episode that made a subtle Peter Molyneux joke. Shit was gold.

 

[The_Lost_King]

Early acess has always been buyer beware. You were paying to develop the game and development failed. This is why so many games come to us the community to fund it because businessmen who normally find these things know to avoid risk(sometimes too much throwing away great prospects but they don't end up screwed by things like Godus)

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

Their unwillingness to pull the game from the steam store, to admit the game is no longer what it was meant to be is why we'd like a refund or in any case closure.

The refund policy is just our foot in the door.

It's your guys' fault for buying it during Early Access. If this had been a fully released game then I would agree it's bullshit, but seeing as it's in early access, well, things are going to change during development. Good games will go through several changes is design throughout development. We usually don't see this because all we look at is the finished product, but it happens and we will see it in early access.

 

[sanquin]

Every early access game shows a warning that the game is unfinished and such. You buy the game as it is at the time of buying, and there are no promises for the future. That's just how early access works. Not only that, but nowhere in the refund policy does it state that the policy change also affects games bought in the past.

So as much as you and many others feel cheated, Valve has every right to deny this refund. Learn the lesson already: Don't buy a game in early access unless you're already happy with what it offers. Never buy a game on future promises. And even then, if things go bad, it's your own fault.

 

[baddude1337]

I question why anyone would back Molyneux after his history in gaming this past decade. It's even worse after all the Godus crap came to light, such as the Curiousity winner not actually winning shit, effectively being swindled by a sleazy contract. Not to mention Molyneux being a general asshat lying to his consumers, not turning up to scheduled appearances, and treating his development staff like shit while expecting impossible things from them.

So It was silly of you to even consider buying Godus, but at the same time, Steam doing such a back-pedalling on it's policy is pretty poor. They are already in gamers bad books after Early Access, Steam Greenlight, Paid mods, and their general lack of policing Steam and it's products in any real way. You'd think they would use this as a way of getting into their good books again, but nope. Valve pulling more Konami level logic yet again.

You do have to consider a few things though. One, this is Early Access, and it's one of the few times (rubbish as it is) a refund is hard to reason, as you bought the game knowing it's not finished and can drastically change at any time. Also, you've had the game for a while and put a fair few hours into it I imagine, accepting this would create a precedent on Valve's behalf, meaning a slew of other Early Access and general Steam shit would also come out asking for refunds and de-listings (which would be a hell of a way to clean up the Steam store), which would be a huge cost to a money making business, and damage Valve and Steam's reputation in the eyes of developers.

 

[Politrukk]

I question why anyone would back Molyneux after his history in gaming this past decade. It's even worse after all the Godus crap came to light, such as the Curiousity winner not actually winning shit, effectively being swindled by a sleazy contract. Not to mention Molyneux being a general asshat lying to his consumers, not turning up to scheduled appearances, and treating his development staff like shit while expecting impossible things from them.

So It was silly of you to even consider buying Godus, but at the same time, Steam doing such a back-pedalling on it's policy is pretty poor. They are already in gamers bad books after Early Access, Steam Greenlight, Paid mods, and their general lack of policing Steam and it's products in any real way. You'd think they would use this as a way of getting into their good books again, but nope. Valve pulling more Konami level logic yet again.

You do have to consider a few things though. One, this is Early Access, and it's one of the few times (rubbish as it is) a refund is hard to reason, as you bought the game knowing it's not finished and can drastically change at any time. Also, you've had the game for a while and put a fair few hours into it I imagine, accepting this would create a precedent on Valve's behalf, meaning a slew of other Early Access and general Steam shit would also come out asking for refunds and de-listings (which would be a hell of a way to clean up the Steam store), which would be a huge cost to a money making business, and damage Valve and Steam's reputation in the eyes of developers.

I bought Godus pre-disaster when it was actually in development when we actually had a game.

The point is that, I would love to get that game back, but they completely scrapped it in favor of this mobile port, heck the game isn't even the game I put these 8 hours of gameplay in.

You see Early Access here is just a lame excuse, the game and storepage should have been revamped in accordance with the change.

Heck Godus's mobile edition has had a full release!

I bought the game when it first came to steam right after the kickstarter succes, when there was actual development going on and we actually did get updates.

Everything changed with Godus version 2.0

I'm going to run a quote from the forums that was posted today :

"I love how the true community of this game is a load of people who have been shafted. Steam should have stepped in over a year ago and pulled this product but they didn't and they wont. Move on people, you can trust Gabe to do quality control and protect consumers as much as you can trust Peter to deliver a game."


This is the truth about Godus and perhaps we should move on, but I sure as hell want people to know what being Molyneuxed means because this man is still shafting people by developing games.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

They will never say it has. They will spin it so as to say the goals of the final product changed during development. Do you expect any developer to willingly admit their product that people can buy has failed? Yet we cant expect to dictate that a crowdfunded developer sticks ridigly to their original concept, an aspect might just turn out to be a dead end. So how would we write rules and laws that keep dodgy shenanigans from happening and yet doesnt bind honest developers to faulty concepts that they overlooked?. This is the weakness of early acess.

 

[Politrukk]

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

They will never say it has. They will spin it so as to say the goals of the final product changed during development. Do you expect any developer to willingly admit their product that people can buy has failed? Yet we cant expect to dictate that a crowdfunded developer sticks ridigly to their original concept, an aspect might just turn out to be a dead end. So how would we write rules and laws that keep dodgy shenanigans from happening and yet doesnt bind honest developers to faulty concepts that they overlooked?. This is the weakness of early acess.

Fair play, however, Kickstarter has a different rule of no-backsies that's getting 22 Cans into possible legal trouble, so why wouldn't Steam?

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Listen, I'm sorry to say it but I am with Steam on this one.

People seem to think that Early Access just means that free dlc and updates will be coming later down the line. No, Early Access means the game is not finished yet, is completely subject to change and so on. There are huge bloody banners on every steam page that has Early Access. You cannot miss it.

Had you bought Godus when it was being touted as a full game, and then you either hated it/advertising was lying/changed into a mobile game, I would 100% agree with you on this.

But you bought an Early Access game (that is still Early Access, no?), and these games come with the big old warning: "Buyer Beware, this shit ain't done."

Capatcha: cor blimey
Dear fucking god I love this capatcha so much yay.

 

[Rattja]

Sorry, but it's not really a steam problem. I'll say as Total Biscuit said not too long ago "Once you put money into early accsess you should consider that money gone". You have no guarantee past that point and all you can really do is hope. It's basically a donation to a project nothing more.
Whatever happens from there on out is a gamble.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

You knew the risks when you joined up, bub.
They have no obligation to pay you back just because you bet on the wrong horse. That would be like asking a casino for your money back because the jockey you bet on fell off his horse halfway through.

EDIT: Fixed stupid typo

 

[Albino Boo]

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

Their unwillingness to pull the game from the steam store, to admit the game is no longer what it was meant to be is why we'd like a refund or in any case closure.

The refund policy is just our foot in the door.

The legalese on steam is written by people who get paid several $100 an hour to write legalese. If they was truly an opening then some class action specialist, with an eye to quick profit, would have filed a case.

 

[Loonyyy]

That seems like it's the risk of Early Access though. You're gaining access to early builds, in exchange for financing development. And sometimes, those games don't work out. Like this one (And what can we expect with Molyneaux at the helm). It's a risk, it's not buying a finished product. Like Kickstarter.

Offering refunds for other games is easier, than trying to chase down the money from devs who have already spent it on development, and likely aren't going to be able to cough up. And it's the community who jumped at the chance to give their money to devs on unfinished products who are to blame there unfortunately.

That said, Steam really needs to clean up their store. Godus is hardly the worst thing on there(Although, likely to never be finished to the satisfaction of users). There is so much utter crap that should never have made it, and I wonder just how people are getting their unity-engine monstrosities and intolerable 640x480 minecraft clones onto the storefront.

 

[Politrukk]

Development officially hasn't failed, but the big gripe people have is that the product is still being sold on a promise that has long been false advertising.

Their unwillingness to pull the game from the steam store, to admit the game is no longer what it was meant to be is why we'd like a refund or in any case closure.

The refund policy is just our foot in the door.

The legalese on steam is written by people who get paid several $100 an hour to write legalese. If they was truly an opening then some class action specialist, with an eye to quick profit, would have filed a case.

They only changed it the day I opened this thread though, at least that's when I got the message

 

[lacktheknack]

You knew the risks when you were joined up, bub.
They have no obligation to pay you back just because you bet on the wrong horse. That would be like asking a casino for your money back because the jockey you bet on fell off his horse halfway through.

Not to mention, they bet on a horse that has the worst track record for spectacular fails in the entire league.

I, for one, would like people to be reminded that not weighing risks has consequences. It's like XCOM Ironman, only it's real life and you just took a 20% chance-to-hit shot. Deal with it.

 

[dragoongfa]

Early access is like paying for a burger before the cow has even been bought by the slaughterhouse.

The risks were there and TB put it best some time ago: Money on early access should be considered permanently gone.

 

[Albino Boo]

The legalese on steam is written by people who get paid several $100 an hour to write legalese. If they was truly an opening then some class action specialist, with an eye to quick profit, would have filed a case.

They only changed it the day I opened this thread though, at least that's when I got the message[/quote]

The early access rules are long standing. The refund changes to do not effect those rules