Here we go again: Anita Sarkeesian and the gaming community

[Haerthan]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

Also, more reputable sources than a Youtube video based on blog post rumors would be nice. The only information even tangentially related to anything like this has solely been fear-mongering, and it goes back two years now to a blog post originally made on Destructoid (which had no sourced facts or anything to begin with).

I have not played Saints Row IV. How did it turn out? I kept hearing it was good. So please enlighten me. I am serious. I am not screwing around. And I DO NOT remember a backlash against it.

That's exactly my point, actually. It was good (if maybe not what fans of Saints Row 2 were looking for), and there wasn't any sort of overblown backlash, from feminists or SJWs or anyone else. At least, not one that was large enough for me to have heard of it.

Why am I not surprised? Remind me to unsub from TotalBiscuit and ReviewTechUSA later today. Got work right now so I'll do it later. I used to respect them, but TB turned into a GGer and Rich, well Rich is a paranoid idiot. TB also seems to show a bit more of an idiotic side with the Target thing, saying that the Target decision is anti-consumer. So yea, I am going to just keep looking for music on Utube from now on. Oh and Anita's videos. Prety insightful (in my opinion and it isnt up for debate).

TB was pretty much forced on the GG side so why would unsubscribe from his channel?He tried to be the voice of reason but certain people pretty much knocked the olive branch out of his hand and lit it on fire.

What voice of reason? Granted I didn't do much research, but all evidence points GG being only a misogynistic attempt to keep gaming male-dominated. Here is what happened: NO EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION BETWEEN the female developer (forgot her and his names) and reporter was uncovered. Did she sleep with him? Probably. Is it my business? FUCK NO. That is where GG started from. Than the "Gamers are dead" articles appeared, which were misunderstood by the troglodytes of GG as an attack, when in reality they were an attempt to show that gaming is diverse and that women are part of it.
A witch hunt was started because an ex-boyfriend said something. Please excuse me for not believing everything I read on the net. If she did or she didnt't isnt my business. GG made it their business, they attacked her, they attacked other women in the industry. They also had support FROM BREIBART, a notorious rag filled with lies and misinformation and they tell me they stand for ETHICS. Fuck off (excuse the language please, this gets me riled up fast and easy).

Edit: please don't view it as an attack on you personally.
Edit2: I also said why I would unsub from his channel. Saying Target was anti-consumer when listening to consumers, parents who make up a larger percentage of their clientele than gamers? Come on TB, I know you are smart, but don;t go on that road

 

[Madkipz]

I'm looking forward to finding out. It could be a learning experience for her, and possibly us if it leads to the creation of a very well-defined character. We'll see. I think she could use some more hands-on exposure to the process of making video games and the industry as a whole. She claims she's done her research, but I think an experience like this will top all of that by a long shot.

While we're on the subject of useful experiences for Anita, I've been hoping lately to see a direct discussion between her and TotalBiscuit. He's the sort of person who would listen and keep things civil, and he's got a wealth of information about the game industry from his personal experience. With all the shots being fired back and forth, I think a direct discussion between both of them would be eye-opening for either of them or both of them, and for plenty of us as well. Call me optimistic, but if such a discussion led to an agreement between both of them I think at best it could lead to at least a minor diffusion of the hostility between GamerGate and Feminist Frequency.

Call you optimistic? It's like your living in a fantasy world. Anita has closed comments on all her video's and refuses to engage in any form of debate because her arguments have been torn to pieces already.

What in the world makes you think she would ever want to stoop down to have a discussion when she can just keep refusing to discuss while beating us over the head with the harassment and misogyny stick?

 

[Haerthan]

I'm looking forward to finding out. It could be a learning experience for her, and possibly us if it leads to the creation of a very well-defined character. We'll see. I think she could use some more hands-on exposure to the process of making video games and the industry as a whole. She claims she's done her research, but I think an experience like this will top all of that by a long shot.

While we're on the subject of useful experiences for Anita, I've been hoping lately to see a direct discussion between her and TotalBiscuit. He's the sort of person who would listen and keep things civil, and he's got a wealth of information about the game industry from his personal experience. With all the shots being fired back and forth, I think a direct discussion between both of them would be eye-opening for either of them or both of them, and for plenty of us as well. Call me optimistic, but if such a discussion led to an agreement between both of them I think at best it could lead to at least a minor diffusion of the hostility between GamerGate and Feminist Frequency.

Call you optimistic? It's like your living in a fantasy world. Anita has closed comments on all her video's and refuses to engage in any form of debate because her arguments have been torn to pieces already as everything she has published so far comes from an intellectually dishonest place.

What makes you think she would ever want to stoop down to have a discussion when she can just keep refusing to discuss while beating us over with the misogyny stick?

Oh yea cause Youtube is such a good place to have a civilized discussion. She isnt the only one that killed her Youtube comments. TotalBiscuit did it as well, saying he won't read them, and Pewdiepie did it as well. But the minute she does it, the cries of censorship start popping up. You buddy are part of the problem not solution. And Thunderfoot isn't a good refutal.

Also I would like to see them debate it, except people would still come out against her even then. So it would be a waste of both my time and hers and TBs.

 

[DementedSheep]

Assuming this is true considering how shitty the writing in the first one is (I love that game but NOT because of the writing) I doubt she's going to make it any worse and who knows? she might actually help make it better although Mirrors edge had no issues with female characters specifically. The game series already stared a female protagonist who isn't sexualized (it has no female mooks but the boss fight was against another women at least) so she is not going to be taking away your male protagonist or your cheesecake. I very much doubt she is consulting on game-play. Consulting with someone who isn't a game dev isn't weird. The point of a consultant is they they are experienced in areas you aren't.

 

[MeatMachine]

I don't like her at all, and I find a lot of her statements to be eye-rolling at best and cringe-inducing at worst.

Still, if she manages to turn all that around and pleasantly surprise me, then I'll be all the more impressed. I have low initial expectations from her and from the game, but I welcome them to challenge that, and I'm open to the possibility of being entirely wrong. I WANT to be entirely wrong on this one - let's see if they can do it.

 

[Madkipz]

I'm looking forward to finding out. It could be a learning experience for her, and possibly us if it leads to the creation of a very well-defined character. We'll see. I think she could use some more hands-on exposure to the process of making video games and the industry as a whole. She claims she's done her research, but I think an experience like this will top all of that by a long shot.

While we're on the subject of useful experiences for Anita, I've been hoping lately to see a direct discussion between her and TotalBiscuit. He's the sort of person who would listen and keep things civil, and he's got a wealth of information about the game industry from his personal experience. With all the shots being fired back and forth, I think a direct discussion between both of them would be eye-opening for either of them or both of them, and for plenty of us as well. Call me optimistic, but if such a discussion led to an agreement between both of them I think at best it could lead to at least a minor diffusion of the hostility between GamerGate and Feminist Frequency.

Call you optimistic? It's like your living in a fantasy world. Anita has closed comments on all her video's and refuses to engage in any form of debate because her arguments have been torn to pieces already as everything she has published so far comes from an intellectually dishonest place.

What makes you think she would ever want to stoop down to have a discussion when she can just keep refusing to discuss while beating us over with the misogyny stick?

Oh yea cause Youtube is such a good place to have a civilized discussion. She isnt the only one that killed her Youtube comments. TotalBiscuit did it as well, saying he won't read them, and Pewdiepie did it as well. But the minute she does it, the cries of censorship start popping up. You buddy are part of the problem not solution. And Thunderfoot isn't a good refutal.

Also I would like to see them debate it, except people would still come out against her even then. So it would be a waste of both my time and hers and TBs.

I don't know any reasonable individuals that cried foul when she removed youtube comments on her video. The cry for censorship is because she doesn't want to be challenged or debated elsewhere.

FFS. Anita didn't even WRITE her Tropes Vs Women show. A man by the name of Johnathan McIntosh does (aka @radicalbytes on twitter). It's even on his profile that he both produces and writes the show.

 

[EternallyBored]

Anyone else find it strange that EA would hire someone as a consult with ZERO experience in game development and ZERO ties to the games industry?

Someone in the youtube comments said that there's been no statement by EA, the dev team or Anita herself so I'm willing to chalk this up to an internet rumor.

That's not strange, it's extremely common, and pretty much one of the main points of hiring consultants.

You hire consultants with experience in areas you aren't experienced in to give advice, like when Activision hires special forces soldiers to act as consultants on Call of Duty games, none of those guys have much in the way of programming experience or ties to the game industry, but that's not the point, Activision has entire teams of programmers and game makers, they don't need consultants to tell them how to program or make games. They hire these guys to give advice on how actual real life special forces units work, or how real military weapons work, which is a form of experience that the game makers generally lack.

In Anita's case, if the rumor isn't made up, and EA actually did hire her as a consultant, it wouldn't be for her game making or programming experience, it would be because they would want to hear about what she knows about writing and presenting female characters, something the game makers might want information or a different perspective on.

I have yet to see Anita try her hand at writing characters or writing a book. She doesn't have expertise she's just someone with an opinion who got internet famous.

Again, EA has writers, if the rumor is true, her experience with writing characters is irrelevant, they would be hiring her for her experience in criticizing tropes in video games. It would likely be to take a look at what they had and offer suggestions or as part of brainstorming. Her not writing characters or a book is again completely irrelevant, you don't hire a consultant to do your writing for you, you hire writers for that.

 

[Haerthan]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

Also, more reputable sources than a Youtube video based on blog post rumors would be nice. The only information even tangentially related to anything like this has solely been fear-mongering, and it goes back two years now to a blog post originally made on Destructoid (which had no sourced facts or anything to begin with).

I have not played Saints Row IV. How did it turn out? I kept hearing it was good. So please enlighten me. I am serious. I am not screwing around. And I DO NOT remember a backlash against it.

That's exactly my point, actually. It was good (if maybe not what fans of Saints Row 2 were looking for), and there wasn't any sort of overblown backlash, from feminists or SJWs or anyone else. At least, not one that was large enough for me to have heard of it.

Why am I not surprised? Remind me to unsub from TotalBiscuit and ReviewTechUSA later today. Got work right now so I'll do it later. I used to respect them, but TB turned into a GGer and Rich, well Rich is a paranoid idiot. TB also seems to show a bit more of an idiotic side with the Target thing, saying that the Target decision is anti-consumer. So yea, I am going to just keep looking for music on Utube from now on. Oh and Anita's videos. Prety insightful (in my opinion and it isnt up for debate).

TB was pretty much forced on the GG side so why would unsubscribe from his channel?He tried to be the voice of reason but certain people pretty much knocked the olive branch out of his hand and lit it on fire.

What voice of reason? Granted I didn't do much research, but all evidence points GG being only a misogynistic attempt to keep gaming male-dominated. Here is what happened: NO EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION BETWEEN the female developer (forgot her and his names) and reporter was uncovered. Did she sleep with him? Probably. Is it my business? FUCK NO. That is where GG started from. Than the "Gamers are dead" articles appeared, which were misunderstood by the troglodytes of GG as an attack, when in reality they were an attempt to show that gaming is diverse and that women are part of it.
A witch hunt was started because an ex-boyfriend said something. Please excuse me for not believing everything I read on the net. If she did or she didnt't isnt my business. GG made it their business, they attacked her, they attacked other women in the industry. They also had support FROM BREIBART, a notorious rag filled with lies and misinformation and they tell me they stand for ETHICS. Fuck off (excuse the language please, this gets me riled up fast and easy).

Edit: please don't view it as an attack on you personally.
Edit2: I also said why I would unsub from his channel. Saying Target was anti-consumer when listening to consumers, parents who make up a larger percentage of their clientele than gamers? Come on TB, I know you are smart, but don;t go on that road

Uh what?I don't like GG anymore than you do but saying they're trying to keep gaming male dominated is flatout untrue.They have people from both sexes and different backgrounds in their ranks,quitely frankly if GG wanted to keep gaming male exclusive then that wouldn't be the case no?

TB at the beginning of all this wanted both sides to calm down and act like rational adults,he offered both sides a chance to settle things on neutral ground only for some people who take a "us vs them" attitude to throw it back at his face.It's no surprise that he lost his patience and picked a side since some have already done that for him.Hell I don't blame him since being neutral in a sea of extremes wears you down at some point.

Than he should have stuck to his guns. Be the voice of reason. The fact that the internet is a pond of scum doesn't absolve him of his guilt of abandoning his neutral stance. He should have made it LOUD and CLEAR that he was NEUTRAL. I would have respected him a lot more if he was neutral. And if he was so adamant about the picking a side (still disrespectful) than he should have taken the side that doesn't have Breitbart as a supporter. We have all been on the internet for the past 2 decades now (or however old it is), most people stick to their guns in front of such attacks.

 

[Madkipz]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

Also, more reputable sources than a Youtube video based on blog post rumors would be nice. The only information even tangentially related to anything like this has solely been fear-mongering, and it goes back two years now to a blog post originally made on Destructoid (which had no sourced facts or anything to begin with).

I have not played Saints Row IV. How did it turn out? I kept hearing it was good. So please enlighten me. I am serious. I am not screwing around. And I DO NOT remember a backlash against it.

That's exactly my point, actually. It was good (if maybe not what fans of Saints Row 2 were looking for), and there wasn't any sort of overblown backlash, from feminists or SJWs or anyone else. At least, not one that was large enough for me to have heard of it.

Why am I not surprised? Remind me to unsub from TotalBiscuit and ReviewTechUSA later today. Got work right now so I'll do it later. I used to respect them, but TB turned into a GGer and Rich, well Rich is a paranoid idiot. TB also seems to show a bit more of an idiotic side with the Target thing, saying that the Target decision is anti-consumer. So yea, I am going to just keep looking for music on Utube from now on. Oh and Anita's videos. Prety insightful (in my opinion and it isnt up for debate).

TB was pretty much forced on the GG side so why would unsubscribe from his channel?He tried to be the voice of reason but certain people pretty much knocked the olive branch out of his hand and lit it on fire.

What voice of reason? Granted I didn't do much research, but all evidence points GG being only a misogynistic attempt to keep gaming male-dominated. Here is what happened: NO EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION BETWEEN the female developer (forgot her and his names) and reporter was uncovered. Did she sleep with him? Probably. Is it my business? FUCK NO. That is where GG started from. Than the "Gamers are dead" articles appeared, which were misunderstood by the troglodytes of GG as an attack, when in reality they were an attempt to show that gaming is diverse and that women are part of it.
A witch hunt was started because an ex-boyfriend said something. Please excuse me for not believing everything I read on the net. If she did or she didnt't isnt my business. GG made it their business, they attacked her, they attacked other women in the industry. They also had support FROM BREIBART, a notorious rag filled with lies and misinformation and they tell me they stand for ETHICS. Fuck off (excuse the language please, this gets me riled up fast and easy).

Edit: please don't view it as an attack on you personally.
Edit2: I also said why I would unsub from his channel. Saying Target was anti-consumer when listening to consumers, parents who make up a larger percentage of their clientele than gamers? Come on TB, I know you are smart, but don;t go on that road

Here is the extent of TB's involvement with #GG

Zoe Quinn took down MundaneMatts youtube video about 5 guys burgers and fries with a false DMCA.

TB commented on this and said fake DMCA's are bad.

Zoe Quinns cult followers proceeded to slam hatred and vitriol in his direction over twitter. Because apparently false DMCA's are totally legit when Zoe does it.

This continued for about a month, and then TB came over to the GG side and tweeted that he was against harassment of any kind.

Because he was being harassed.

By a hatemob of people going under the banner of "defending" Zoe Quinn against this hateful and disgusting ciswhite male.

 

[Haerthan]

I'm looking forward to finding out. It could be a learning experience for her, and possibly us if it leads to the creation of a very well-defined character. We'll see. I think she could use some more hands-on exposure to the process of making video games and the industry as a whole. She claims she's done her research, but I think an experience like this will top all of that by a long shot.

While we're on the subject of useful experiences for Anita, I've been hoping lately to see a direct discussion between her and TotalBiscuit. He's the sort of person who would listen and keep things civil, and he's got a wealth of information about the game industry from his personal experience. With all the shots being fired back and forth, I think a direct discussion between both of them would be eye-opening for either of them or both of them, and for plenty of us as well. Call me optimistic, but if such a discussion led to an agreement between both of them I think at best it could lead to at least a minor diffusion of the hostility between GamerGate and Feminist Frequency.

Call you optimistic? It's like your living in a fantasy world. Anita has closed comments on all her video's and refuses to engage in any form of debate because her arguments have been torn to pieces already as everything she has published so far comes from an intellectually dishonest place.

What makes you think she would ever want to stoop down to have a discussion when she can just keep refusing to discuss while beating us over with the misogyny stick?

Oh yea cause Youtube is such a good place to have a civilized discussion. She isnt the only one that killed her Youtube comments. TotalBiscuit did it as well, saying he won't read them, and Pewdiepie did it as well. But the minute she does it, the cries of censorship start popping up. You buddy are part of the problem not solution. And Thunderfoot isn't a good refutal.

Also I would like to see them debate it, except people would still come out against her even then. So it would be a waste of both my time and hers and TBs.

I don't know any reasonable individuals that cried foul when she removed youtube comments on her video. The cry for censorship is because she doesn't want to be challenged or debated elsewhere.

FFS. Anita didn't even WRITE her Tropes Vs Women show. A man by the name of Johnathan McIntosh does (aka @radicalbytes on twitter). It's even on his profile that he both produces and writes the show.

Jonathan MacIntosh also pops up on HER VIDEOS credits roll. So that last point is invalid, whatever it was. She never lied about that.
Your first point would only work if the bloody trolls would stop with the constant attacks against her. If the debate from the very beginning was civil and done in such a way that she wouldn't be able to say that it is an attack against her, than she would have debated everyone else.

But that isn't what happened. What happened was one vile attack after another against her. Does she have good points? Hell YES. Does she have bad points? YES. Can we debate it in a civilized manner? Apparently not. And the backlash against her removing her YT comments was huge. Even I knew of it at the time. I want her to debate other people as well in a civilized manner, cause only then can we have proper discourse. But that will never happen cause the troglodytes will never see it as a debate. They have the us vs them mentality, not her.

And too many people cry censorship when it isn't, as evidenced by the Target shitstorm. So sure you don't have to like her, but she does bring up good points and does show that something is wrong with the industry.

 

[Haerthan]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

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Yes the harassment thrown against TB is total BS. I will never support such harassment regardless of ideology. False DMCA claims are bullshit. Considering though what that guy said against her (immature too btw) I am not surprised she did it. Not defending it anyways, just not surprisd. He should have stuck as neutral even then. Also whoever uses ciswhite male without an sort of fucking irony is an idiot in my eyes.

 

[Haerthan]

Before we get to everyone brandishing their torches and pitchforks, I'd just like to point out that the last instance of a high-profile developer listening to Sarkeesian's criticism/views was Saints Row IV [https://www.google.com/search?q=saints+row+iv+anita+sarkeesian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp], and anybody who has played that game knows how it turned out.

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Too much sniping damn it.

The people who bully other people for that reason are scum in my opinion, regardless of ideology (pro/anti GG). I still believe however that TB should have just ignored the anti-GG harassers. Going to the side that is at best highly questionable makes him questionable as well. Humans are social creatures and the associations we have with other people/sides taint the perceptions of us. Someone said earlier that he doesn't care for collective punishment. Well guess what friend, the world works differently.

 

[Haerthan]

I apologize to derailing this while debating with other people. So please focus on the subject at hand, mainly that there is a petition that wants Anita Sarkeesian out of her consultant position with EA for Mirror's Edge 2.

Edit: Also if you are gonna report me, at least try to face me in a debate. I dislike it when people see a debate and look at it as harassment. Also if I harassed you, speak up so I can apologize.

 

[Thorn14]

I'm more concerned over her saying that the game was too hard or something.

Also isn't she very against the idea of women using violence, since its a masculine trait?

 

[MrHide-Patten]

She's having a hand in "making her own game" what more do people want, oh yeah forgot, burnt to death in a chemical fire. For got how the internet works, carry on, sorry I left my virgin sacrifice at home.

 

[Haerthan]

snip.

Man thou hast one sick mind. I like it. Join me in my quest to spread the insanity. Join me on the darkside.

 

[Pr0]

Until I see an official documentation of her position as a consultant, I don't see any reason to worry about it.

EA might be slightly weird sometimes, but they're not going to hire a consultant for a game that has no development experience.

Anita is not a developer, shes not an artist, shes not a writer, shes a pop culture critic....what exactly qualifies her for any form of consultation position at Electronic Arts? I mean...just because people say your name a lot because you've trolled the entire gaming world into doing so doesn't mean you're qualified to consult on the development of a title.

Even HR department at Electronic Arts can't be that stupid.

Also I think if her personal crusade to make herself socially relevant had landed her a "big time job" in the gaming industry, her LinkedIn profile would have already been updated to reflect that fact....shes not the kind of person to keep anything on the "down low" when it comes to her own personal advancement.

So yeah...til there is something veritable that proves shes actually consulting with EA on anything...I don't see why theres even a petition.