Holy crap, folks...this one's a doozy...

[FolkLikePanda]

Hmmm, I would say that the girl would live with her adoptive parents but still keep in contact with her biological mother. Dunno how it would work but they'd probably figure something out.

 

[Vern5]

Let the kid decide who she wants to live with. I'm sure she'll decide to live with her adoptive parents depending upon how nice they are. I don't really understand why this is a tough decision. Sure, I guess separating a mother from her child is a little cruel but this decision is not all about the mother.

Not possible, a child can't decide what is best for them - any seven year old would say the person who gave them Ice Cream is a nicer person than the one that didn't. They don't possess the capacity to make this kind of choice.

This has to be sorted out by the law - my opinion: stay with adoptive parents, financial stipend for mother with option to visit.

I come back after a few days and every single quote I've had from this thread is about how a 7 year old can't make decisions that affect their lives. Not all children are complete morons. Hell, I've seen many children make more rational and direct decisions than adults in certain situations. Children do not have set ideas about how things should or should not be since they haven't come out of their formative years or suffered the growing pains that accompany growing up. This does not make them stupid, it simply makes them inexperienced.

While I can understand the reasoning behind not asking a child to decided whether a convicted criminal should live or die, I would certainly expect a child to know who he or she wants to live with simply based on experiences. Everyone here seems to be leaning towards the emotional impact of a mother who had her child taken from her. While that is very sad and tragic there is simply no maneuvering around the fact that her child has no familiar memories of her. A child should grow up in the company of those he or she finds most comfortable.

Can anyone explain what exactly qualifies the birth mother to be a better parent than the adoptive parents?

 

[Raven's Nest]

[

Can anyone explain what exactly qualifies the birth mother to be a better parent than the adoptive parents?

Well she didn't knowingly adopt a kidnap victim for a start....

Look up for details.

 

[Vern5]

[

Can anyone explain what exactly qualifies the birth mother to be a better parent than the adoptive parents?

Well she didn't knowingly adopt a kidnap victim for a start....

Look up for details.

So they adopted a kidnapped child. I fail to see a correlation between a strange decision and their parenting abilities.

 

[Raven's Nest]

[

Can anyone explain what exactly qualifies the birth mother to be a better parent than the adoptive parents?

Well she didn't knowingly adopt a kidnap victim for a start....

Look up for details.

So they adopted a kidnapped child. I fail to see a correlation between a strange decision and their parenting abilities.

I fail to see the correlation between being an accessory to kidnapping and a strange yet apparently harmless decision.

 

[Vern5]

[

Can anyone explain what exactly qualifies the birth mother to be a better parent than the adoptive parents?

Well she didn't knowingly adopt a kidnap victim for a start....

Look up for details.

So they adopted a kidnapped child. I fail to see a correlation between a strange decision and their parenting abilities.

You consider kidnapping a child a strange decision that doesn't make the parenting abilities of the person questionable?

Really?

Did the parents specifically ask for that child to be kidnapped in the first place? That's not a sarcastic response; I didn't care enough about these people to comb through the article looking for that piece of information.

Still, the way I see it, if they took good care of that kid then the only people being hurt here are the birth-parents. This is why I say the kid should have the first say on who she wants to live with, as the welfare of the child is more important than the wants of any of the involved parents. If her adoptive parents are really bad people or even just annoying people, that kid will suddenly have the ability to escape a living situation she hates.

 

[SEXTON HALE]

Hmm...
Ths is a tricky one the mother does have a good claim to her own child but so does the family who spent five years raising her.
I would sympathize with the mother but leaving her with the family might be for the best.
When she was only two being taken from her mother and adopted by a family she probably was'nt even aware of what was going on.
Doing that to her again at seven now that she is old enough to be aware of what is happening would definatly be difficult for her and could even bring back some upleasant memeorys.
Though has anyone tried asking her what she would like to do?

 

[zefiris]

Some people are seriously arguing that because the kidnapping-associate "adoptive parents" stonewalled for some years, they should be rewarded for being terrible people by...letting them have their way?

WHAT? Seriously?

NONE of you would argue this if the criminals weren't american. None. It's completely insane to side with people that behaved this horribly.

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

Back to the mother, no question about that whatsoever in my mind. Unless she was somehow unfit to raise a child then the child goes back. Sad for the people who raised her in between but much worse to have your biological child taken from you illegally and raised by someone else.

so if you were seven years old with loving parents living in Missouri then all of a sudden some people claiming to be your real parents saying you were kidnapped and that they want you back with them no questions asked, would YOU want to go with them? I fucking doubt it. you can't tear away a kid from his/er parents even if the kid is adopted it just ain't right.

 

[Vern5]

Yes, they should totally keep their abducted child because they were nice to her. What the fuck are you smoking dude? You really think the kid isn't losing when she is living with criminals who knowingly went through with a illegal adoption because they wanted to have a kid?

Sometimes I smoke cigarettes but only when I can bum them from other people. It's funny how generous smokers can be. But, to answer your question, I don't know enough about the child's living situation to say if she has gained or lost anything.

You have to take into account that the criminal activities of the adoptive parents do not help or hinder their ability to love and care for a child. Yes, they are criminals and I can't possibly dispute that but, in the long run, their one crime is not as important as the livelihood and well-being of that child.

Is it your opinion that all people who commit crimes are intrinsically bad people at heart? Is the man who steals money to feed his starving family an evil person because he broke the law? That is a terribly naive point of view. You must filter your own personal objections in order to determine what is best for that kid, as she is the one who has the most to gain and lose in this entire debacle.

If her adoptive criminal parents have the ability to give her a decent upbringing and treat her with civility and love then it might do more harm than good to forcibly remove the child and place her with her birth-parents. Keep in mind that the child probably will not recognize her birth parents at all; they will be complete strangers to her. Making that sort of transition at such a young age could prove to be psychologically problematic. On the other hand, if the foster parents abuse or cannot provide for that kid, then she should be placed with her birth-parents immediately, as they will (hopefully) appreciate her more and ultimately do a better job of raising her.

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

Back to the mother, no question about that whatsoever in my mind. Unless she was somehow unfit to raise a child then the child goes back. Sad for the people who raised her in between but much worse to have your biological child taken from you illegally and raised by someone else.

so if you were seven years old with loving parents living in Missouri then all of a sudden some people claiming to be your real parents saying you were kidnapped and that they want you back with them no questions asked, would YOU want to go with them? I fucking doubt it. you can't tear away a kid from his/er parents even if the kid is adopted it just ain't right.

No, but that is irrelevant to me now, I am not 7. You can tear a kid away from their parents, it happens a lot. It has happened to this child once before. DNA says it's hers, unless she was somehow complicit in the original kidnapping or is currently an unfit parent the kid goes back with no second thought from me.

Also:

The mother identified the child in 2009, but it's taken this long to go through the courts in Guatemala, let alone the US. Whilst I haven't seen any confirmation of when the Monahans found out about her origins it is clear that they have known since at least the middle of last year. Have they contacted the mother direct and tried to come to an arrangement? No, they've hired lawyers and a PR firm and stonewalled. There's some ugly possibilities that this is being dragged out because the longer the kid lives in the US the more likely the (US) authorities are to decide it's in her 'best interest' to stay.

Further information here

Wow, that is a enlightening and horrific read, I'm not surprised by the typical stonewalling from the adoptive parents on the issue, but by the resistance from the Guatemalan government. This should have been sorted out years ago before there was even any debate that the child be kept in the US. That a hunger strike even happened (and was ignored by the US media) to highlight these issues shows just how much deeper this problem goes.

Edit: Read the comments too, they put the adoptive parents in a far worse light (they knew the child was kidnapped before they adopted her) - However it does seem they love/are highly protective of the child.

If this is true the parents would also be facing some pretty hefty criminal charges if it was up to me.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Yes, they should totally keep their abducted child because they were nice to her. What the fuck are you smoking dude? You really think the kid isn't losing when she is living with criminals who knowingly went through with a illegal adoption because they wanted to have a kid?

Sometimes I smoke cigarettes but only when I can bum them from other people. It's funny how generous smokers can be. But, to answer your question, I don't know enough about the child's living situation to say if she has gained or lost anything.

You have to take into account that the criminal activities of the adoptive parents do not help or hinder their ability to love and care for a child. Yes, they are criminals and I can't possibly dispute that but, in the long run, their one crime is not as important as the livelihood and well-being of that child.

Is it your opinion that all people who commit crimes are intrinsically bad people at heart? Is the man who steals money to feed his starving family an evil person because he broke the law? That is a terribly naive point of view. You must filter your own personal objections in order to determine what is best for that kid, as she is the one who has the most to gain and lose in this entire debacle.

If her adoptive criminal parents have the ability to give her a decent upbringing and treat her with civility and love then it might do more harm than good to forcibly remove the child and place her with her birth-parents. Keep in mind that the child probably will not recognize her birth parents at all; they will be complete strangers to her. Making that sort of transition at such a young age could prove to be psychologically problematic. On the other hand, if the foster parents abuse or cannot provide for that kid, then she should be placed with her birth-parents immediately, as they will (hopefully) appreciate her more and ultimately do a better job of raising her.

Holy shit. If you aren't smoking something then I'll take a shot of the same drink, actually make it a double because afterwards I'll probably need one after I blow my fucking brains out.

 

[Aglynugga]

I wonder what the little girl wants. Does anyone know?

 

[Vern5]

Holy shit. If you aren't smoking something then I'll take a shot of the same drink, actually make it a double because afterwards I'll probably need a drink after I blow my fucking brains out.

I'm well aware that I'm being viciously rational and cold-hearted about this whole thing but what you said is just depressing.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Dito. No words can describe how utterly appalled I am by that post.

Guys, it's been a pleasure but seriously Vern5... Cannot tell if troll or just stupid.

Anyway, until people who have anything intelligent to say return, I bid thee adieu...

 

[Vern5]

Dito. No words can describe how utterly appalled I am by that post.

Guys, it's been a pleasure but seriously Vern5... Cannot tell if troll or just stupid.

Anyway, until people who have anything intelligent to say return, I bid thee adieu...

So instead of forming an intelligent and informative response to the admittedly unsympathetic things I say both of you opt to run and hide behind a facade of morality? Well, I wont stop you but I was hoping to come away from this thread by learning something interesting. Adios! I eagerly look forward to more stirring future debates.