Homophobia, Mods, And One Step Too Far

[Nutcase]

I've got to admit, while it does seem odd for anyone to want to mod characters into nude figures, whether it's male or female, I can understand that everyone's entitled to choice, but I don't get why people would want to romp through a game with everyone else wearing no clothes on. It may provide a bit of tittilation and amusement for a few minutes, but after that, it must get boring.

Er, who says all characters must be naked?

If you think about it, it's really unnatural for everyone to be clothed all the time.

To play devil's advocate, I do not think I could condone the idea that nude male & female characters should be made readily available on the internet for children to download & play on a game that does not have a rating. If unchecked, it can't be healthy. I don't know Alienslof's work, or any security checks she might have to make sure that kids don't get to download.

How would access control measures on nude character models *ever* matter when kids can go download untold quantities of porn and view it in a web browser if that's what they want? Game's rating doesn't matter either. Exact same reason.

 

[Seldon2639]

I hate to set myself up as an easy target for flaming, but Slof isn't entirely in the right on this issue, nor are her attackers entirely in the wrong. Breasts (and even asses) are not proper analogy to penises, so the presentation of anatomically correct (or even very incorrect) breasts is not the same as anatomically correct penises.

If showing breasts were equivalent to showing penises, I promise you that either full frontal nudity would be much less of a deal, or partial-nudity would be much more of a deal. The proper comparison for male genitalia is female genitalia; penis is equivalent to vagina. I'm sorry that there's no male equivalent secondary sexual organ to breasts, but there isn't. A "leg-long wank" is not equivalent to a "foot-long breast".

Let me give you, then, a for instance. First, of course, there's an intent on the modder's part to showcase the genitalia, since no armor would either actively show (much less accentuate) the penis. So, If I were to create a mod which inserted anatomically correct female figures into the game, to be fair to the premise, I should come up with a way to display it. If I created either a magnifying glass accessory (so the view of the vagina could be shown), much less create a "spread her legs" command, I'd be lambasted for being misogynistic before I could say "moral equivalence". That's a double-standard

Either we're good with putting on a peep show using mods (in which case both the male and female genitalia should be on direct display), or we're not. If we are, I'm gonna get to work on my "spread her legs" command. If we're not, then let's not be hypocrites about it.

there are anatomically correct vagina mods.

I stand corrected. Mea culpa. The only difference, then, is how visible the modification would be. There's really no way to show a vagina through armor, and even to really showcase it naked in and if itself. A penis (especially one accentuated by the armor) does kind of slap you in the face, if you'll excuse the pun.

 

[cainx10a]

She could have at least hosted the files on a different server, even use a different method to advertise her works through different portals.

 

[Slayer_2]

Wow... If only the haters could see how hypocritical they're being...

 

[742]

well, this just occured to me... you dont have to enable mods if you dont want to. so they .... im still trying to figure out the problem here, this sounds like a bunch of fucking republicans are on our internet.

 

[Captain Blackout]

I do NOT condone the harassment but I can understand where it came from. There are plenty of a'holes in the world who will gladly flame anyone for showing any nudity other than female. Latent homosexuality is certainly one reason. I can also completely understand AS's reasons for withdrawing her work. Unrelenting harassment can be downright damaging. I'm glad she posted her work in the first place. These tards should be very glad I don't mod. I would post mods that changed everyone into giant penises with really freaky looking ones for the non-humans. Go for lovecraftian and melt their brains. When I got flamed I would respond with names on walking genitalia or something equally rude. If anyone who sees this mods please take up this idea. Heck I'll take the blame for it if you don't want to.

 

[Drachknouir]

the real pisser in this is that the same ppl flaming her are the same ppl that make dick like creachers in spore

 

[Xerosch]

@slxiii: But if they are good friends with gays they shouldn't be homophobic

 

[Doug]

I hate to set myself up as an easy target for flaming, but Slof isn't entirely in the right on this issue, nor are her attackers entirely in the wrong. Breasts (and even asses) are not proper analogy to penises, so the presentation of anatomically correct (or even very incorrect) breasts is not the same as anatomically correct penises.

If showing breasts were equivalent to showing penises, I promise you that either full frontal nudity would be much less of a deal, or partial-nudity would be much more of a deal. The proper comparison for male genitalia is female genitalia; penis is equivalent to vagina. I'm sorry that there's no male equivalent secondary sexual organ to breasts, but there isn't. A "leg-long wank" is not equivalent to a "foot-long breast".

Let me give you, then, a for instance. First, of course, there's an intent on the modder's part to showcase the genitalia, since no armor would either actively show (much less accentuate) the penis. So, If I were to create a mod which inserted anatomically correct female figures into the game, to be fair to the premise, I should come up with a way to display it. If I created either a magnifying glass accessory (so the view of the vagina could be shown), much less create a "spread her legs" command, I'd be lambasted for being misogynistic before I could say "moral equivalence". That's a double-standard

Either we're good with putting on a peep show using mods (in which case both the male and female genitalia should be on direct display), or we're not. If we are, I'm gonna get to work on my "spread her legs" command. If we're not, then let's not be hypocrites about it.

there are anatomically correct vagina mods.

I stand corrected. Mea culpa. The only difference, then, is how visible the modification would be. There's really no way to show a vagina through armor, and even to really showcase it naked in and if itself. A penis (especially one accentuated by the armor) does kind of slap you in the face, if you'll excuse the pun.

Actually...yeah, I kind of see the point - my initial reaction to the thread was one of "Fuckwits; the internet should have a licensing system to weed out the completely idiotic", however you do raise a valid point.

That said, calling it 'Gay' is outright stupid, given if the penis was gay, the human race would be doomed for obvious reasons

I do agree that: Penis != breasts and pubic hair

However, I do feel that the attackers where still in the wrong (or rather 95+% in the wrong) for their homophobia and social norm enforcement - after all, I doubt they don't look at porn, and I suspect they do download the female body part mod(s).

Further, their aggronance in declaring their own moral and social norms absolutely right is, aside from a degree of anti-freedom-of-speech, repugant. Whilst they might argue they where only making their freedom of speech too, the harrashment and cyberstalking on a privately owned set of networks does not entitle them to freedom of speech.

Imagine, if you will, a privately owned club or bar that has house rules - i.e. no fighting, no stalking/harrashing, etc, and this group entered exclusively or primarially for the goal of harrashing her. It would be the entirely within the remit of private ownership for the owner to throw them off of his/her property.

well, this just occured to me... you dont have to enable mods if you dont want to. so they .... im still trying to figure out the problem here, this sounds like a bunch of fucking republicans are on our internet.

Probably.

"Won't someone think of the children!?"

"What about all the female mods?"

"Well, their no harm really..."

>_<

 

[Moofy]

time to be pillars of moral fortitude on the internet!

i think we all need to take a step back and look at the situation. have you ever been called gay on the internet? the odds are probably yes. did you let it get to you so much that you let it adversely affect your health? most likely not. okay, yeah, in theory her dong mods aren't any better or worse than booby mods. however when you post it in a forum dominated by teenage boys you're probably going to be called a *gasp* fag. especially when the mods look like this:
http://static.bethsoft.com/blog/basil.jpg

 

[LisaB1138]

I hate to set myself up as an easy target for flaming, but Slof isn't entirely in the right on this issue, nor are her attackers entirely in the wrong. Breasts (and even asses) are not proper analogy to penises, so the presentation of anatomically correct (or even very incorrect) breasts is not the same as anatomically correct penises.

You're basing this on your own personal experience with breasts? No. Please don't tell me what my breasts equate. I can promise as a woman with breasts that naked boobies do equate the exploitation of naked penises. You're just not used to having your gender being exploited, that's all. It's par for the course for a female character in gaming. Ridiculous clothes, ridiculous proportions--all in a day's work for a female character.

There isn't any "harassment" going on about fully nude female mods, is there? No email campaigns, no mods leaving the internet in a huff because they failed to put undies on a girl. No, this has everything to do with men's bizarre penis fixations. I don't think it's homophobic. I think it has to do with losing control of how men are presented. An exposed penis reflects something men resent. I couldn't tell you what it is, not having one. My guesses would be it somehow makes a character vulnerable, weak, servile? It goes beyond sex, I promise you.

 

[Doug]

time to be pillars of moral fortitude on the internet!

i think we all need to take a step back and look at the situation. have you ever been called gay on the internet? the odds are probably yes. did you let it get to you so much that you let it adversely affect your health? most likely not. okay, yeah, in theory her dong mods aren't any better or worse than booby mods. however when you post it in a forum dominated by teenage boys you're probably going to be called a *gasp* fag. especially when the mods look like this:
http://static.bethsoft.com/blog/basil.jpg

There is a difference from being called 'fag' on an internet game, and cyber- or e- stalking. This stalking involves the attackers harrashing you at every single website, forum, or email-address they can find for you, and doing so constantly.

Whilst she didn't say she was e-stalked, she did say she was followed across various forums and I wouldn't be surprised if she was emailed by the jerks either.

Whilst the stress alone isn't enough to cause illness, it can massively amplify the effects of any illness, as has been observed in medicine, and its clear a patient's mental state can have a strong impact health.

 

[RemoteSpeaker]

I hate to set myself up as an easy target for flaming, but Slof isn't entirely in the right on this issue, nor are her attackers entirely in the wrong. Breasts (and even asses) are not proper analogy to penises, so the presentation of anatomically correct (or even very incorrect) breasts is not the same as anatomically correct penises.

If showing breasts were equivalent to showing penises, I promise you that either full frontal nudity would be much less of a deal, or partial-nudity would be much more of a deal. The proper comparison for male genitalia is female genitalia; penis is equivalent to vagina. I'm sorry that there's no male equivalent secondary sexual organ to breasts, but there isn't. A "leg-long wank" is not equivalent to a "foot-long breast".

Let me give you, then, a for instance. First, of course, there's an intent on the modder's part to showcase the genitalia, since no armor would either actively show (much less accentuate) the penis. So, If I were to create a mod which inserted anatomically correct female figures into the game, to be fair to the premise, I should come up with a way to display it. If I created either a magnifying glass accessory (so the view of the vagina could be shown), much less create a "spread her legs" command, I'd be lambasted for being misogynistic before I could say "moral equivalence". That's a double-standard

Either we're good with putting on a peep show using mods (in which case both the male and female genitalia should be on direct display), or we're not. If we are, I'm gonna get to work on my "spread her legs" command. If we're not, then let's not be hypocrites about it.

While in some cultures showing a penis is more risqué than showing breasts in others it?s not. After browsing tesnexus for less than 5 minutes I came across at least a half dozen graphically explicit female-nudity mods, I don't believe it really matters which culture you are in, prostitution, rape, and borderline child pornography (these are but a few I came across, oh and there is a "spread her legs" command in several of the 'strike a pose' mods) far exceeds the perceived immorality of showing an anatomically correct penis. Actually the mods that added an anatomically correct penis were made by a rather renowned modder who goes by the handler ?Robert? he makes models for both genders and if I remember correctly several miscellaneous things as well. Alienslof?s adult work is typically skimpy outfits for men, usually only showing off the chest, and dipping low into the pelvic region but not actually showing any genitalia, her non-adult mods are things like better skins for horses and such.


I am a gay man and personally I rather enjoyed dressing my character up in the skimpier clothing that she provided and thus might be slightly biased, I do believe that alienslof might be overreacting a bit, but then again I have grown used to verbal if not physical abuse from strangers? Personally I don?t believe emailing her support or forming petitions will do much good at all by itself, although I doubt this to be possible I believe asking other notable modder?s to temporarily suspend access to their mods, particularly those modder?s who specialize in female-nudity mods would be much more helpful. It would show her that even those who are devoted to the female form support her in her own devotion to the male form, and as a side effect it would punish these fourteen year old boys. After all how the hell could they have come across her adult mods if they were not looking for adult mods? Many of these modder?s should be willing to do this, as I am willing to bet that often times their mods contain components of her mods, such as her erection mod. Unfortunately as I am not an active member of any modding community, I merely leach and edit things for private use I have very little sway over anyone therefore either a rather well known person or a group effort would be necessary to bring this about.

Anyways, I am rather disappointed that alienslof took down all of her mods, I was going to play oblivion again a bit during spring break. Oh well, I suppose I can find something else to do, after beating oblivion its just not much fun without modding and I like using her mods to enhance other mods...

 

[Doug]

http://static.bethsoft.com/blog/basil.jpg

That doesn't look like an Oblivion mod! The character actually looks at ease! Sorry, teasing - but honestly, the character is sat in a human way, which, from my time playing Oblivion, is not normal.

 

[mooncalf]

I loved Slof's work, especially her work with the male figure.
I think we should write a collective letter giving her our support.

Mmmm, 'tis a good idea.

Seriously can we get an email address? I'd sign that.
Artistic / Trashy isn't an argument I want to get into, I'm not qualified.

But this isn't about art, its about fear. Well, I say let the homophobes squirm. Or... uh the xeno...phalla...phobes? Whichever useless, ignorant hillbilly fear is causing this, let them be afraid. Let them shiver, and quake and the idea of honest god penis that isn't attached to their own pelvis. They want to be afraid, I say we start going out of our way to scare them. Homosexuals can love each other too! Boo! Homoesexuals are people with souls and minds and flaws and gifts! Penis, on its own and in no particular context simply conveys masculinity, not homosexuality!

Seriously, petition, open letter of support, maybe a nice little badge if we can get a moderator in on this? We should start a real campaign for freedom of speech in games, mods and media in general.

True true. If I can get this thread's URL to AS I will. While it's sad to see her go, I respect her choice (her right to a little peace and quiet) and am grateful for all that she shared with us, that she shared at all.

 

[Valiance]

I want to go smash a TV in the street now.

There are too many things wrong with the OP for me to even single something out.

1: Fucking immature kids
2: Nude mods in general, why?
3: Fucking immature kids
4: Sexism
5: The fact that she cares what they say
6: The fact that there's more negative support than positive support
7: I hate people

And most of all,

The fact that I can't do anything about it. I want to write her a letter or something but I'm sure one voice won't be enough to make her feel any better, let alone start doing it again.

 

[Daniel Cygnus]

What really bothers me about this is that these mods get flamed, while penis-monsters run amok in the lands of Spore, probably created by the exact same people who did it for a laugh.

 

[PiCroft]

Yeah I agree with the letter thing.

I'm sure those who have a problem with her mods are sexually insecure fucksticks who probably are terrified of seeing a cock that isn't attached to their own bodies.

I agree in general that Slof should not have given in, but what can you do? If I was harrassed constantly by mouth-breathing shitdrinkers, I'd probably take it down just so I didn't have to endure the poorly-spelt shit they no doubt bombarded her with.

 

[Doug]

What really bothers me about this is that these mods get flamed, while penis-monsters run amok in the lands of Spore, probably created by the exact same people who did it for a laugh.

Quite probably - tis a form of doublethink (see 1984 - the book)