Homophobia, Mods, And One Step Too Far

[KingPiccolOwned]

*snip*

Okay wait I am not following you. They don't like wangs, so they are homophobic? That really doesn't make any sense to me, I get that you are trying to defend a person that you respect here, but tell me how accusing them of something that to me seems unfounded fixes anything. Really homophobia doesn't seem to be the issue, rather obsessive compulsive modding. Allow me to elaborate: The fact that they complain about it means that they had to have downloaded the mod correct? Well as I see it the problem is rather that they just don't understand concepts of you don't have to get the mod if you don't want it. The same thing can be said about the use of the term "gay" to relate their disatisfaction. I don't find it homophobic so much as it is them lacking the mental capacities to articulate a valid complaint.

I don't think that's entirely it. Have you seen all the material in slof's arsenal? It's hardly a matter of simply adding male genitalia. If you can find images of some of the clothing and armor designs and poses.. Men in chain mail mini skirts. Men in dresses as opposed to robes. The Robe trader mod has an image of a man in a dress with a sheer top and a decidedly feminine/gay pose. Poses you'd find women taking in the sears catalogue, victoria's secret or on a fashion runway.. hips cocked to one side, back arched mocking the female s curve, etc.. In the Goth shop II material, she has a man in a kimono. Goth shop I has the chain skirt on a male in a female traditional pose. It isn't just cross dressing. The seedier her stuff gets the more you think of the village people meets bdsm.. It inspires visions of the gay private party scenes from JFK or any gay pride parade ever held. If it would be helpful, I have the promo images from slofs work in my database - the stuff that is non-adult in nature. I could probably find the adult content stuff again; but, I'd rather not go looking for it.

People charged that it's gay content for a reason. It wasn't just picking nits. It's rather blatent stuff and it was all in her public images that she used to advertise her mods with on all the sites. I'm rather skeptical in accepting that slof is female.. though I could be wrong. My impression not having physically met the person is that it's a gay artist living out fantasies of cross dressing, etc through modding. If you look at the material, it gives a strong impression.. not a minor hint.

Well very well then, but my arguement still applies in a number of ways.

 

[lizards]

its a shame but its a bigger shame that she gave in

 

[havoc92]

That's the flaw of giving everyone a say, the toss-wits overrun the people with new and good ideas. On the other hand, giving no-one a say blocks all good and new ideas. Life is dramatically unfair.
Come to think of it, i've rarely seen these twatarses, even on x-box li-oh, withdrawn.

I responded to an article at 3dbuzz sometime back over that issue. And it was a lesbian that got banned from the XBL online for continuing to announce through her profile that she was lesbian. MS booted her after multiple warnings. I gave a pretty thorough history and foundation for my comments over there in defense of MS (something I never do out of principle), and got attacked by a lesbian there for "ranting". Apparently putting a breadth of facts on the table is ranting when there's no answer to the material facts otherwise.. lol. She even went as far as to say I needed to die for my commentary. I'm rather used to that; but, Buzz wasn't and some people were agast at her response and mad at me apparently for being too correct.

Personally, I'm of the informed opinion that gay isn't a "lifestyle" it's a sexual perversion.
Porn and sexual perversity can come in all sort of twisted forms from foot and leg fetishes, to inserting schoolbusses in orafaces, to sex with animals, children.. Urinating and deficating on one another - consuming said same bodily excretions. People do to one another in extreme fetishes things that nazis used in concentration camps as torture for human beings they'd decided were decidedly less than human in the Darwinian scheme of things. Homosexuality is just one perversion among many in a sense. But they're unique in that they're largely parasites. They can't reproduce. It isn't a genetics issue, which was a lie for a while. So they have to recruite and they are militant in doing so.

One could have an interesting time studying homosexuality through history. It ends up that it existed in past cultures; but, a running theme is that it's "acceptance" has largely been an imposition by a ruling class suffering from the perversion. Nero was married to a woman and slept with men. When his wife noted he'd made an error, he kicked her to death for it. Then he put her dead corpse on display before the senate and attempted to gain sympathy votes from the senate over her death for his 'reconstruction' of rome project. This after he'd burned a section of rome to make way for his plans apparently. In grief over killing his wife, he pointed out a free man on the streets who reminded him of his wife and had him castrated on the spot, dressed in his wife's clothes and then treated him as his dead wife. Anyone who looked down on this was killed. And this is how Sodomy got acceptance in Rome.. not by nero's hand specifically but by emperors with immediate power over life and death and a fetish for male sphincters - lunatics with sexual fetishes and unchecked power. The Apostle Paul factually, historically, was jailed in rome and Nero was the one he faced at trial. Apparently, he was bored with the case, unimpressed with the evidence and felt Paul had done nothing wrong. When it came to light that Paul was preaching that Homosexuality is a sin, Nero changed his mind and executed Paul.
Typical really. Paul had done nothing wrong. But, because he noted that homosexuality was sin, The emperor was angered and murdered him. It's no surprise that nero tied Christians to stakes, covered them in oil and burned them alive as a means of lighting for the night games. This is what we're to believe is civilized and tolerant/advanced thinking. Psychotic dictators with sexual fetishes imposing their fetishes on the masses under penalty of death if they're crossed.

And this kindof lept to mind when I was attacked at buzz by the lesbian and told I needed to die.. Some things just don't change. Thankfully, she isn't an emperor with power over my life.

 

[havoc92]

I'm not sure that there is much i can add at this point.
But whatever, i'll give it a shot.
In my opinion, the one lesson that people never seem to learn is that you should avoid doing things that can cause you stress (the stress being from criticism/mockery from the masses) and take the easy way out by relieving yourself of said action
I find it laughable that i have read, time and time again, that someone has gone out of their way to do something that led to a VERY EASILY PREDICTABLE slaughtering by the harsh public.
When will people learn?!?!?
My prediction is never. People will never understand that doing X will lead to Y, Y being the harsh beating from the masses. Then the person will ***** about Y and that will lead to Z which is people complaining about the person receiving Y for doing X.
And i will sit here laughing as people continue to do this and i continue to hold control over my sanity

I know what your'e saying here, but that's basically the same as saying "No one's going to like what you do, so don't even bother trying it." Personally, I think that the phrase "nothing ventured, nothing gained" applies here. No radical movement has ever been immediately supported by 100% of the populace, and if it doesn't meet an ounce of opposition, then who's to say there was even a point?

This is a bit late in coming, but i wanna get my opinion out on this.
I don't mean that they shouldn't do something that is a bit out of the ordinary (hell, i myself am pretty insane) but what i mean is that they shouldn't do something that would so obviously bring upon them a thrashing by the public.
I mean come on, designing a male nude mod? I haven't heard of anything above that yet on the "things that will get you mocked and/or harshly pwned by the general public" scale.
I understand what you mean here too, but i believe that this is just a mis-interpretation.
I mean that people should do things different and have their own ideas and make ventures and blah blah blah, but i think that people should not ***** about it when they do something that is so predictably going to garner hate from the public. But people have proven time and time again that society is too primitive to understand my logic, so i don't think this will stop any time soon.
Oh well.

Society isn't too primative. Some people in society simply don't seem to grow up, respect the law, respect morality, etc. If you draw a line in the sand on any matter and then keep redrawing it everytime someone cries that they aren't getting their way, then things devolve.
And that's where we are right now. We've allowed so much to slide in the last 50 years in the US that what's allowable in public nowdays because the people charged with enforcing the law will not do so... I mean, hell, 100 years ago, a wedding ring meant something. It was generally respected outside of the occasional adulterer who everyone knew was to be looked upon as a thing of scorn and reviling. People nowdays will tell you things like what a "friend" of mine once said to me "It's a ring not a sentence. If they consent, it can't be wrong." This is what the 60's generation left us with. It's near impossible to find a gal in my neck of the woods that can be trusted at this point. I gave up on dating 6 years ago because I'm generally sick of disloyalty and con jobs. And for all the grief I heard in highschool about guys getting gals pregnant and abandoning them, I never saw that. What I have seen by women is as repugnant as that notion and well beyond it at this point. Since Highschool, I've seen the guys that have run off; but, they're rather rare in my experience.

Liberals got into politics and apparently sexual morals are the first thing they destroyed.
You no longer have to be responsible for your actions. Instead of standing by your man or woman and doing the upright thing, now we steal from everyone to provide condoms for the pervs that won't control themselves. The ones that don't use condoms, well we deal with that by stealing from everyone to pay for the kid's food and a roof over mom's head. Etc, etc.. The liberal answer to morality is to steal from everyone and make everyone else responsible for that which they themselves refuse to be responsible for. It's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

..standing by for flames.

Thank you kindly, and please go fuck yourself.





Edit: also 50 points to who ever can figure out what I meant by that

About what I've come to expect. No response to any of my points, just an emotional nasty response that is not only off point but factually wrong. Correcting societal errors has never amounted up to what the Errors wraught. We're told all the time that religious wars have killed more people than ... Which is utterly wrong. Stalin killed tens of millions of his people for socialist ideals. Hitler murdered 7 million outright and if you add the totals from battlefront losses due to his war.. Darwinist socialists. China has killed more than these two men over time specifically trying to keep people from practicing Christianity. Darwinist socialists. But, again, I've no illusion that actual facts will penetrate certain people who don't much care.

Edit: one last thought: Education seems to deteriorate with the decline of social morals. And it's predictable. The norm is that you don't want people understanding that things you're doing are wrong, so you stop teaching and start indoctrinating. Intelligence drops accross the board and society devolves further as a result. Moral decay is called DECAY for a reason - it eats away at everything. I'm playing fallout right now. Interesting game; but, it reminded me of some of the homes I cleaned in my highschool years for a friend's dad who was a realtor. Post holocaust housing looks a lot like homes of drug addicts who moved out in a hurry so as not to be burdened with rent owed.

 

[Asehujiko]

I'm not sure that there is much i can add at this point.
But whatever, i'll give it a shot.
In my opinion, the one lesson that people never seem to learn is that you should avoid doing things that can cause you stress (the stress being from criticism/mockery from the masses) and take the easy way out by relieving yourself of said action
I find it laughable that i have read, time and time again, that someone has gone out of their way to do something that led to a VERY EASILY PREDICTABLE slaughtering by the harsh public.
When will people learn?!?!?
My prediction is never. People will never understand that doing X will lead to Y, Y being the harsh beating from the masses. Then the person will ***** about Y and that will lead to Z which is people complaining about the person receiving Y for doing X.
And i will sit here laughing as people continue to do this and i continue to hold control over my sanity

I know what your'e saying here, but that's basically the same as saying "No one's going to like what you do, so don't even bother trying it." Personally, I think that the phrase "nothing ventured, nothing gained" applies here. No radical movement has ever been immediately supported by 100% of the populace, and if it doesn't meet an ounce of opposition, then who's to say there was even a point?

This is a bit late in coming, but i wanna get my opinion out on this.
I don't mean that they shouldn't do something that is a bit out of the ordinary (hell, i myself am pretty insane) but what i mean is that they shouldn't do something that would so obviously bring upon them a thrashing by the public.
I mean come on, designing a male nude mod? I haven't heard of anything above that yet on the "things that will get you mocked and/or harshly pwned by the general public" scale.
I understand what you mean here too, but i believe that this is just a mis-interpretation.
I mean that people should do things different and have their own ideas and make ventures and blah blah blah, but i think that people should not ***** about it when they do something that is so predictably going to garner hate from the public. But people have proven time and time again that society is too primitive to understand my logic, so i don't think this will stop any time soon.
Oh well.

Society isn't too primative. Some people in society simply don't seem to grow up, respect the law, respect morality, etc. If you draw a line in the sand on any matter and then keep redrawing it everytime someone cries that they aren't getting their way, then things devolve.
And that's where we are right now. We've allowed so much to slide in the last 50 years in the US that what's allowable in public nowdays because the people charged with enforcing the law will not do so... I mean, hell, 100 years ago, a wedding ring meant something. It was generally respected outside of the occasional adulterer who everyone knew was to be looked upon as a thing of scorn and reviling. People nowdays will tell you things like what a "friend" of mine once said to me "It's a ring not a sentence. If they consent, it can't be wrong." This is what the 60's generation left us with. It's near impossible to find a gal in my neck of the woods that can be trusted at this point. I gave up on dating 6 years ago because I'm generally sick of disloyalty and con jobs. And for all the grief I heard in highschool about guys getting gals pregnant and abandoning them, I never saw that. What I have seen by women is as repugnant as that notion and well beyond it at this point. Since Highschool, I've seen the guys that have run off; but, they're rather rare in my experience.

Liberals got into politics and apparently sexual morals are the first thing they destroyed.
You no longer have to be responsible for your actions. Instead of standing by your man or woman and doing the upright thing, now we steal from everyone to provide condoms for the pervs that won't control themselves. The ones that don't use condoms, well we deal with that by stealing from everyone to pay for the kid's food and a roof over mom's head. Etc, etc.. The liberal answer to morality is to steal from everyone and make everyone else responsible for that which they themselves refuse to be responsible for. It's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

..standing by for flames.

Thank you kindly, and please go fuck yourself.





Edit: also 50 points to who ever can figure out what I meant by that

About what I've come to expect. No response to any of my points, just an emotional nasty response that is not only off point but factually wrong. Correcting societal errors has never amounted up to what the Errors wraught. We're told all the time that religious wars have killed more people than ... Which is utterly wrong. Stalin killed tens of millions of his people for socialist ideals. Hitler murdered 7 million outright and if you add the totals from battlefront losses due to his war.. Darwinist socialists. China has killed more than these two men over time specifically trying to keep people from practicing Christianity. Darwinist socialists. But, again, I've no illusion that actual facts will penetrate certain people who don't much care.

Edit: one last thought: Education seems to deteriorate with the decline of social morals. And it's predictable. The norm is that you don't want people understanding that things you're doing are wrong, so you stop teaching and start indoctrinating. Intelligence drops accross the board and society devolves further as a result. Moral decay is called DECAY for a reason - it eats away at everything. I'm playing fallout right now. Interesting game; but, it reminded me of some of the homes I cleaned in my highschool years for a friend's dad who was a realtor. Post holocaust housing looks a lot like homes of drug addicts who moved out in a hurry so as not to be burdened with rent owed.

Hitler also ate sugar.

 

[Yokai]

(....)Typical really. Paul had done nothing wrong. But, because he noted that homosexuality was sin, The emperor was angered and murdered him. It's no surprise that nero tied Christians to stakes, covered them in oil and burned them alive as a means of lighting for the night games. This is what we're to believe is civilized and tolerant/advanced thinking. Psychotic dictators with sexual fetishes imposing their fetishes on the masses under penalty of death if they're crossed.

And this kindof lept to mind when I was attacked at buzz by the lesbian and told I needed to die.. Some things just don't change. Thankfully, she isn't an emperor with power over my life.

You...really need to get your facts straight. Homosexuality isn't some sort of depraved fetish, it's a preference hardwired into the genetic code of some people. It's rarely a choice. I'd like to see some proof that it "isn't a genetic issue" from someone who isn't a hardcore right-wing conservative.
Also, Nero may have been gay, but first and foremost he was a powerdrunk psychopath with mental issues who was completely unfit to rule an empire. His atrocious actions against his subjects would have occurred whether he was homosexual or not, and because of this he's hardly a fair example to use. It's like saying all black people are criminals and can't be trusted, and using OJ Simpson as your singular example. I'm quite frankly surprised that there are still people in the world who believe gays are evil and have "no respect for morality." Your argument makes your incredibly bigoted and narrow-minded view clear.
You're entitled to your opinion. I, at least, will respect that. However, if you're going to take a standard thread on a forum of well-educated and articulate people and turn it into a tirade about moral degradation and the depravity and wrongness of homosexuality, at least try and give a valid argument based on more than your own opinion. This sort of blind, stubborn "righteousness" is unbecoming.

Concerning the OP: I find the entire issue a little ridiculous--the portion of the community that goes to the trouble to make Oblivion X-rated is a sad little group. However, I can clearly see the unfairness in letting all of the perverts post their nude reskins and their latex armor packs so long as it's only the female characters that are getting this treatment. If this kind of clutter is allowed in the first place, then it's unreasonable (and rather misogynistic, if not homophobic) to chase off the people who make male body replacers or even mods with gay overtones. Shit, I don't care. It's the internet. Lord knows there will always be something more disturbing. People still have the right to believe (and post) what they want, though. It's sad to see this sort of hypocrisy amongst the pathetic teenagers desperate for tits.

 

[Laughing Man]

Sorry what exactly is it we are supporting here?

If the person who created the mods had left them out there and was getting abuse or as is more likely just idiots posting comments about them then fine have all the support in the world. You've worked hard you've added to the community and you don't deserve to be harrassed for what you have done.

However the person involved has decided to take it one step further. They have done the 'screw you guys I am going home', 'it's my ball so I am taking it home with me.' Just to what degree can you be harassed over the internet, did people hack her site? Did they break in to her email? Is it more likely that they posted comments below her mods. Ignore them, report them to the mods. Did they post comments in forums, ignore them, report them to the mods. Did they email her, don't read them, delete the emails.

Really, removing all her mods and effectively storming off in a big huff does not help the situation. At best the idiots who posted these easily ignorable comments think they have won and at worst the people who supported her will lose respect because she has effectively acted just as immature as those that posted about her mods in the first place.

This has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with plain simple stupidity. 'I am a teenage guy, what's this, a mod for Oblivion that shows a guy's junk I am gonna post how gay that is.' That's as simple as it gets. The thing is that judging by the final reaction it is safe to say that the original author probably egged them on by not simply ignoring the comments but by rather trying to justify her work to them. A typical teenager who thinks everything expect 'tits' is gay being told why a man's junk is acceptable in a game. Well if that isn't the fuel for the perfect argument explosion then I dunno what is.

 

[Robert632]

i'm going to sum up what the people said to her. if you don't like people mocking people's double standerd's, don't click the spoiler box.

<spoiler=what they said>"oh some one made nude male models.better stop jerking my sausage to the nude female model's long enough to complain untill i force her to stop making them. i'm such a good person.now i'm going to go ask someone if they can mod in some lesbien sex as well."

 

[Woem]

by the way, in case anyone wants to support her, here is her site:

http://www.slofshive.co.uk/index.php?page=news

and you can click on contact to give her your support. I just did

Thanks for the link. I never heard of her (nor did I ever play any of the games she mods) but I absolutely love her work!

 

[Dax317]

yeah i saw that mod i did not download it but i did not say anything to discourage them. mostly because i am not an immature little retard who thinks anything except them is "gay". i am straight but i have a few gay friends. i don't have a problem with it but i have a problem with people who do.

 

[spindle]

Damn now how am I going to hip-thrust across the land with my bejeweled horned codpiece of impaling.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

That's actually a really sad story... we live in a world full of closed minded dipshits who would harass someone for doing that... Makes me ashamed to be a gamer if "gamers" are the idiots who would do that.

 

[YuheJi]

She seems to be starting to add mods back again. Problem solved?

 

[pompom8volt]

What I don't get is that the people complaining would be guys themselves, so it isn't like they haven't seen a penis. Are they just worried that the video game representation of them are bigger then their own? Or are they under the assumption that only they have a penis?

This, pluss the fact that they don't have to use the mods.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

We lost the battle, but the war will continue. I feel sorry for that person, she deserves better. If I meet any of those pretentious pricks, I'll virtually kick their ass (verbally).