Homophobia, Mods, And One Step Too Far

[Nmil-ek]

As far as I know this was resolved not been on the Tesnexus forums for awhile but pretty sure, soooo why did this several month old thread get bumped again?

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

I think that nude mods of either gender are purile and pointless, therefore I don't use them. I do not think that gives me the right harrass those that make them, and if I don't have the right then those hypocritical wastes of protein clearly have no business making such coments about her work.
Anyone who assumes something is "gay" just because it doesn't fit the image of what they want to see should be banned from expressing any opinion. They're clearly not mature enough to comunicate properly.

 

[Xojins]

How is that homophobic? It was a woman making the mods, so wouldn't this be sexist? I'm not defending them, but as an anti-homosexual, this is giving us a worse wrap for something that wasn't even about homosexuality.

I believe they were using the term "gay", as a description for "bad". As in the context, "wow, that is stupid (only, instead of stupid, they said gay)".

It's homophobic and sexist at the same time. It doesn't have to involve a gay person for it to be homophobic.

 

[Ushario]

*snip*

I heard about this sad turn of events a while back and was equally enraged by it.
AlienSlof's work was excellent and its unfortunate that small minded members of the community targeted her. Their actions reek of inadequacy and homophobia, I really hope Slof can return to the modding community.

Edit: I wasn't the necro obviously but the Nazis on this site can't have it both ways. Either we use the search bar or we necro occasionally.

 

[Yokai]

As far as I know this was resolved not been on the Tesnexus forums for awhile but pretty sure, soooo why did this several month old thread get bumped again?

Because some insane hyperconservative ran into it on the archives and decided to rant about how immoral and depraved homosexuality is. For shits and giggles I guess. Now people noticed the thread and have started posting again.

 

[havoc92]

its a shame but its a bigger shame that she gave in

I would say that it's a shame she isn't using her talent and gave that up altogether. IMHO, that's just dumb. I used to do "artistic" nudes. The last one I did was something like 15 years ago and largely I quite because I didn't feel right doing them. I didn't give up doing artwork. I personally think she over-reacted in a big and rather childish manner. I won't comment on her character; but, I feel informed enough on the subject to say as much as I have.
If you can't take criticism, you'll never survive life.

 

[havoc92]

I'm not sure that there is much i can add at this point.
But whatever, i'll give it a shot.
In my opinion, the one lesson that people never seem to learn is that you should avoid doing things that can cause you stress (the stress being from criticism/mockery from the masses) and take the easy way out by relieving yourself of said action
I find it laughable that i have read, time and time again, that someone has gone out of their way to do something that led to a VERY EASILY PREDICTABLE slaughtering by the harsh public.
When will people learn?!?!?
My prediction is never. People will never understand that doing X will lead to Y, Y being the harsh beating from the masses. Then the person will ***** about Y and that will lead to Z which is people complaining about the person receiving Y for doing X.
And i will sit here laughing as people continue to do this and i continue to hold control over my sanity

I know what your'e saying here, but that's basically the same as saying "No one's going to like what you do, so don't even bother trying it." Personally, I think that the phrase "nothing ventured, nothing gained" applies here. No radical movement has ever been immediately supported by 100% of the populace, and if it doesn't meet an ounce of opposition, then who's to say there was even a point?

This is a bit late in coming, but i wanna get my opinion out on this.
I don't mean that they shouldn't do something that is a bit out of the ordinary (hell, i myself am pretty insane) but what i mean is that they shouldn't do something that would so obviously bring upon them a thrashing by the public.
I mean come on, designing a male nude mod? I haven't heard of anything above that yet on the "things that will get you mocked and/or harshly pwned by the general public" scale.
I understand what you mean here too, but i believe that this is just a mis-interpretation.
I mean that people should do things different and have their own ideas and make ventures and blah blah blah, but i think that people should not ***** about it when they do something that is so predictably going to garner hate from the public. But people have proven time and time again that society is too primitive to understand my logic, so i don't think this will stop any time soon.
Oh well.

Society isn't too primative. Some people in society simply don't seem to grow up, respect the law, respect morality, etc. If you draw a line in the sand on any matter and then keep redrawing it everytime someone cries that they aren't getting their way, then things devolve.
And that's where we are right now. We've allowed so much to slide in the last 50 years in the US that what's allowable in public nowdays because the people charged with enforcing the law will not do so... I mean, hell, 100 years ago, a wedding ring meant something. It was generally respected outside of the occasional adulterer who everyone knew was to be looked upon as a thing of scorn and reviling. People nowdays will tell you things like what a "friend" of mine once said to me "It's a ring not a sentence. If they consent, it can't be wrong." This is what the 60's generation left us with. It's near impossible to find a gal in my neck of the woods that can be trusted at this point. I gave up on dating 6 years ago because I'm generally sick of disloyalty and con jobs. And for all the grief I heard in highschool about guys getting gals pregnant and abandoning them, I never saw that. What I have seen by women is as repugnant as that notion and well beyond it at this point. Since Highschool, I've seen the guys that have run off; but, they're rather rare in my experience.

Liberals got into politics and apparently sexual morals are the first thing they destroyed.
You no longer have to be responsible for your actions. Instead of standing by your man or woman and doing the upright thing, now we steal from everyone to provide condoms for the pervs that won't control themselves. The ones that don't use condoms, well we deal with that by stealing from everyone to pay for the kid's food and a roof over mom's head. Etc, etc.. The liberal answer to morality is to steal from everyone and make everyone else responsible for that which they themselves refuse to be responsible for. It's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

..standing by for flames.

Thank you kindly, and please go fuck yourself.





Edit: also 50 points to who ever can figure out what I meant by that

About what I've come to expect. No response to any of my points, just an emotional nasty response that is not only off point but factually wrong. Correcting societal errors has never amounted up to what the Errors wraught. We're told all the time that religious wars have killed more people than ... Which is utterly wrong. Stalin killed tens of millions of his people for socialist ideals. Hitler murdered 7 million outright and if you add the totals from battlefront losses due to his war.. Darwinist socialists. China has killed more than these two men over time specifically trying to keep people from practicing Christianity. Darwinist socialists. But, again, I've no illusion that actual facts will penetrate certain people who don't much care.

Edit: one last thought: Education seems to deteriorate with the decline of social morals. And it's predictable. The norm is that you don't want people understanding that things you're doing are wrong, so you stop teaching and start indoctrinating. Intelligence drops accross the board and society devolves further as a result. Moral decay is called DECAY for a reason - it eats away at everything. I'm playing fallout right now. Interesting game; but, it reminded me of some of the homes I cleaned in my highschool years for a friend's dad who was a realtor. Post holocaust housing looks a lot like homes of drug addicts who moved out in a hurry so as not to be burdened with rent owed.

Hitler also ate sugar.

Not exactly an argument and irrelevant to boot.

 

[havoc92]

(....)Typical really. Paul had done nothing wrong. But, because he noted that homosexuality was sin, The emperor was angered and murdered him. It's no surprise that nero tied Christians to stakes, covered them in oil and burned them alive as a means of lighting for the night games. This is what we're to believe is civilized and tolerant/advanced thinking. Psychotic dictators with sexual fetishes imposing their fetishes on the masses under penalty of death if they're crossed.

And this kindof lept to mind when I was attacked at buzz by the lesbian and told I needed to die.. Some things just don't change. Thankfully, she isn't an emperor with power over my life.

You...really need to get your facts straight. Homosexuality isn't some sort of depraved fetish, it's a preference hardwired into the genetic code of some people. It's rarely a choice. I'd like to see some proof that it "isn't a genetic issue" from someone who isn't a hardcore right-wing conservative.
Also, Nero may have been gay, but first and foremost he was a powerdrunk psychopath with mental issues who was completely unfit to rule an empire. His atrocious actions against his subjects would have occurred whether he was homosexual or not, and because of this he's hardly a fair example to use. It's like saying all black people are criminals and can't be trusted, and using OJ Simpson as your singular example. I'm quite frankly surprised that there are still people in the world who believe gays are evil and have "no respect for morality." Your argument makes your incredibly bigoted and narrow-minded view clear.
You're entitled to your opinion. I, at least, will respect that. However, if you're going to take a standard thread on a forum of well-educated and articulate people and turn it into a tirade about moral degradation and the depravity and wrongness of homosexuality, at least try and give a valid argument based on more than your own opinion. This sort of blind, stubborn "righteousness" is unbecoming.

Concerning the OP: I find the entire issue a little ridiculous--the portion of the community that goes to the trouble to make Oblivion X-rated is a sad little group. However, I can clearly see the unfairness in letting all of the perverts post their nude reskins and their latex armor packs so long as it's only the female characters that are getting this treatment. If this kind of clutter is allowed in the first place, then it's unreasonable (and rather misogynistic, if not homophobic) to chase off the people who make male body replacers or even mods with gay overtones. Shit, I don't care. It's the internet. Lord knows there will always be something more disturbing. People still have the right to believe (and post) what they want, though. It's sad to see this sort of hypocrisy amongst the pathetic teenagers desperate for tits.

I got my facts straight before I started debating the topic something like 5 years ago.
It isn't a secret that Homosexuals tried using fruadulent sceince as a platform for saying "God made us this way, so how can it be wrong".. And that was the marketing pitch to try and overcome the moral issue. It went hand in hand with lying about what percent of the population they represented - the lie was 10 percent while the actuality was less than 2. The motive for that lie was leverage in the political arena to change laws with lies. They were outed on both and have been trying to stitch together a fallback position since - to no avail.

Secondly, it's hardly an argument for one bad thing to say that another bad thing is going on therefore... This is like saying we should really let manson out of jail because afterall, there are Dexters in the world and they're far worse.. Same logic.

The hypocrisy arises because there is no real foundation for what they wish to do, say or believe. It's relativism being preached just as you've used it here. Sloppy relativism and poor logic can excuse anything and allow everything. By their logic and your own, your neighbor could rape your daughter and so long as someone worse is out there doing worse and they really believe it's ok, you have to respect their beliefs.. And the reason the stupidity persists is what you said.. you don't care.. it's the internet..

 

[Sparrow]

I agree.

Although (I sense flamers a'comming...) there is no shortage of women who do the same. My best friend got abused for having a porn mag once, to which I litteraly had to intervine.

I had to intervine, because some old fuddies thought my friend's porn mag was insulting to women. Sure, maybe it is, but there's no reason to get abusive about it.

 

[havoc92]

Ok let's start with the obvious, definitions of terms you don't understand.

Darwinism:

a theory of organic evolution claiming that new species arise and are perpetuated by natural selection. Also known as evolution 1.0 (we're currently at evolution version 2.3 btw)

Rather presumptuous of you to assume I don't understand the terms. I'm aware of what Darwinsim is, from the outset and up to now. Darwins original title and motivations went hand in hand pushing racial superiority. It has had far more influence than racism and
relativism in society.

Socialism:

Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists.

The socialist political philosophies as a group, including Marxism, libertarian socialism, democratic socialism, and social democracy.

Socialism is a governance philosophy whereby a clique of elites controls everything under the guise that it's controlled by the people. The idea is that by eliminating the middle class and any appearance of an upperclass (apart from the ruling clique), that economic struggle will cease and everyone (except the clique) will be equal (and the clique more equal than everyone else). Typical socialist rational is they steal from you to buy a car for state use because they don't own one. They control it and get to drive it. If you protest this, the response is, "We don't own the car. We only drive it.. you're better off than us because you own the car." You just don't get to control or possess what you "own" nor do you get to profit from it's use..

Well I'll be damned none of your example fit either of those definitions. how weird, could it be that your accusations are factually wrong?

Or could it be that you simply didn't read. The accusation I responded to was a dumb cartoon offered off point that stated something to the effect that solving problems has caused more damage than the original problem. I simply debunked the point by noting that getting rid of stalin and hitler stopped murders in the tens of millions. Perhaps you just didn't read before you responded.. wouldn't be the first time someone's done that in haste. I'll assume the rest of your post is equally responsive as I have no use for having my time wasted by someone who didn't have the respect for others not to waste our collective time rushing to make a pointless and pretentious response. Vacant. Reread and try again.

 

[Irridium]

This has been resolved for a while now.

Slof is back, everyone calmed down.

For all the criticism she got, she got an equal amount of support, and after she removed everything, there was a giant supportive movement for her.

But yeah, this s basically over, so why has this thread been brought back?

 

[scnj]

Kind of reminds me of the Watchmen movie debacle where everyone focused on the penis. I mean, it's just part of the male body, it's not like seeing one is gonna give you gay disease or whatever. Stupid and immature, especially if it got to the stage where it was affecting her health.

Edit: Huh, seems I'm late to this party. I'll just wander off nonchalantly.

 

[Jerich0]

she started out as just another modder, but she's since become a martyr - she did battle against ignorance and unfortunately, ignorance won.

 

[havoc92]

I've annotated the following to emphasize the idiocy.

And if we took you to logic class, your idiocy would be emphasized.

{Phobia means irrational fear or hatred. People were harassing her solely on the basis of what they perceived as gay content. sound irrational to anyone?}

Irrational, no. Sorry. Irrational would presume a lack of logical basis for so doing.
Homosexuality has long been defined as sexual deviency. It's only latley that it's been attempted to be redifined as something other than that - at the same time they're trying to redefine marriage and other things to make homosexuality seem more proper. You don't have a case for fear, much less irrational fear. Simply seeming irrational to you doesn't meet the standard of the definition you yourself cited. And any first year logic professor would nail you on this out of the gate. So much for pretense on point 1. Get a copy of copi and learn the rules of the language.. that would help.

{That's called majority rule and applies IRL. On the net no matter how much you ***** and whine and are a little pussy about something sys op has final say always. So if he says it's ok to post something if you provide a warning (which she did clearly) then you can fuck right off, or you could go to the supreme court and get laughed at, your choice}

Actually, Real life law is applicable to any public action. And the US Congress has been weighing in as well as the US Supreme court. Not simply because of the actions of others, but because of attitudes like yours. People get on the internet and do all sort of things they'd never do if people could see them doing it or hear them saying it rather than simply typing it. They do it often times because they think people don't know who they are or can't find out. They also do a lot of things they'd get knocked on their butts for otherwise because they think they're protected hiding behind a keyboard and an avatar. Some kinds of people get really bold when they can hurl insults and cower in presumed anonymity. Sites can be shut down and people can go to jail as easily on the internet as IRL.

{There's a slight difference between criticism (calling you a conceited Christian ****) and harassment (following you around the Internet and making your life hell)}

You haven't established harrassment. My understanding is that a whole lot of people were saying the same thing. That isn't harrassment. In a theatre, a bad act bood off the stage is a bad act bood off the stage. It isn't harrassment, it's democracy in action.. people voting their minds on the subject and saying "don't want it." Producing a product that is unwanted and then crying about it when one is repeatedly told it isn't wanted is an exemplification of stupidity in action. But you seem to have an agenda here.. so we'll go on with your rambling.

{Pointless anecdote}

No, it's an establishment of what I know and how I know it. I'm rather used to laying foundation for my positions and including relevant data to avoid moronic responses that I've learned to expect and therefore head off to save on wasted time.

{First off AMERICA DOESN'T OWN THE INTERNET YOU RETARD. Second it's the fucking Internet, everything can be faked. You're pretty much saying every porn site operator is liable to go the jail because they let people in based on a yes no answer. Sites with content that can be reasonably expected to offend someone paste warnings and so do mods and so did slof so your argument is demented more so because you're arguing US law when you don't even know where she lives (and she can't be prosecuted if not a US resident)}

Actually, the internet does own a sizeable portion of the internet and started the bloody thing. You haven't argued that anything I said is irrelevant. You're simply handwringing.
The fact stands. If I did what she's doing, I'd be in jail for it. And in our system, I'd have a 14th ammendment claim before the supreme court for breach of the equal protection provision. It isn't an un-weighty point. That you seem to have no respect and keep illustrating that with regularity does a diservice to you. This is a public forum whether you care to note that or not. You making an ass of yourself doesn't help you. It does provide me with endless linkable material to cite for future debates and illustrate for others how obtuse people can be when they set out to be. You're not making a case, you're flapping about uttering words in print; but, you're not making a logical case. Oh, and I didn't miss the smear of christians, it simply is uninformed and dumb enough to label you
as that which you protest. So, I let it go for illustrative purposes. The smell of hypocrisy.. rofl

{Ad populous argument against gays, the bullshit "it's a choice" argument against gays, GAY kills people argument, and deathbed repentance to prove gay is a choice (wait till your brother's well enough for sex and then see who he fucks), and finally a god of the gaps everything I said is validated because there's no proof that my fairy god mother doesn't exist argument}

It would be an ad populous argument if being a majority didn't have legal weight. It does.
This is where your continued tirade in ignorance of the law paints you as simply ignorant.
Our Constitutional republic is built on the notion of majority rule with minority protection.
Community standards are established by local communties themselves and are considered inviolate by the contstitution as interpreted and upheld multiple times by the supreme court in my lifetime. That fact nullifies what would otherwise be a proper understanding of the rules of logic. So, you're almost right; but, again, not savvy enough to properly apply what you know or too ignorant of what you're presuming to speak of..

Next, my stepbrother has been out of the hospital and chaste for a year. He wants to live and says he's happy for the first time in decades. Hate to rain on your parade; but, well, no, I'm rather enjoying it. Homosexuals are fine with other homosexuals as long as they don't leave the plantation. Why? Because it proves there is a choice involved - once again putting the lie to their claims. My stepbrother isn't the only one that has ever changed his mind. One of my ex girlfriends was a lesbian by choice for years. She decided she wasn't anymore, got married, has 5 kids now and wants nothing to do with women. It isn't a rare happenstance. And as she's been married twice in 15 years to get to 5 kids, that must really put a damper on your logic party there. Oh well, suppose you can chalk it up to another pointless anecdote to make yourself feel better.. rofl.

{Blah Blah Blah right of community to set laws (totally ignoring that they didn't take her work down but harassed her on and off the site), they're just words argument again ignoring what harassment means, the interets are property of America, some bullshit about conservatives being reasonable (yah that's why against all evidence you believe in a God), and finally an anti homosexual remark based on the teachings of a 2 thousand year old book with no evidence to support its claims and a lot of evidence to prove it wrong.}

Again, illustrating your lack of respect. You're doing precisely what you're charging others did to her. You haven't made that case; but, your charging it and at the same time utterly disrespecting me and everyone else here opposed to your position. That is hypocrisy. If you weren't exemplifying what you are protesting, one might mistakingly take you seriously.

{Blah Blah Blah, my right not to stare at wang (then don't click on the picture moron, it's not that fucking hard)}

Again, moronic and unresponsive. Others here have noted that it apparently had nothing to do with staring at 'wang'. It had to do with obviously gay content. That doesn't necessarily intone showing wang, though it's as likely to as not as militant as that community is. heteros don't have "hetero/normal" pride marches and flaunt their sexuality (something considered a private matter) in public and in everyone's face.

{Bunch of Christian anti homosexual bullshit (surprisingly not homophobic though)}

Really? Christian? where?

{some bullshit about lack of freedom of speech for Christians (try being an atheist for a day and then get back to me) followed by a bunch of denialist projection about how screaming something at the top of your lungs doesn't make it right (please try applying that to your own philosophy it might help you realize why you're a moron)}

Athiests don't seem to have a problem with freedome of speech. None that I've noticed. Athiests do seem to have a problem with anyone having religious beliefs in their viewing.
And they tend to have not a lick of respect for religious people in general. And I don't have a "philosophy". I've never run to a group of men who said, 'we think that in light of x, y should be so, therefore, let us make dogmatic proclamations of our assumptions.' That's moronic. Either something is true or it is not true. If you're assuming for lack of evidence, you've lost me on the basis of presumption. And I'm not simply shouting that something is wrong. It's been legally settled as a matter of law on the books in this country since the founders. The community set its standards based on common law of britain.. and were not alone in it. The US and britain are not the only places on the planet or in history where homosexuality has been deemed perverse, unnatural and illegal. Apparently, you were absent for history classes - all of them.

{A final spew of bullshit about how gay is inherently wrong (just like blacks and Asians are inherently wrong and slavery is inherently right we should bring those laws back after all slavery was practiced in the bible the one light of morality in the sea of depravity and gay) Met a bad gay online so they're all bad, was touched by a gay to make another gay jealous so they're all bad, all gays are bad, logic > emotion (ok the last one may be true but he's still full of shit}

Blacks and Asians aren't inherently wrong. The writers of our constitution and the signers knew slavery was wrong and set a timetable for dealing with it. The rich elites who were making money off of it didn't want to give it up and threw their collective weight around to
ensure what they'd agreed to wasn't honored. Apparently, again, you don't know history.
You also don't apparently know anything about the bible either. Slavery wasn't condoned in the Bible. Helps if you have a clue before opening your yap and you continuously and disrespectively yet aptly demonstrate your ignorance. Israel didn't have slavery. It did have indentured servitude as a form of payment. If someone wanted to buy land and couldn't afford it, he'd bond himself to the owner of the land for a set period of time, serving him to pay for the land. If a man owed a debt he couldn't pay, rather than fall to disrepute as someone who didn't pay their bills, they'd opt to bond themselves to the person they owed and work off the debt. This is one of those often claimed and unfounded charges that the uneducated (prejudiced) use to try and excuse themselves with. Go do your homework and when you can do something other than sputter obvious falsehoods like this that anyone with a brain and access to a library can debunk, come back and talk and we can have an honest conversation.. assuming you're capable of it and want one.. I wouldn't presume after your prior post.

[/quote][/quote]

 

[havoc92]

she started out as just another modder, but she's since become a martyr - she did battle against ignorance and unfortunately, ignorance won.

Martyrs don't fall on their own sword nor run from their fate. Joseph Smith got shot trying to escape from jail after being charged and arrested for counterfeiting, etc.. and they call him a martyr too.. amazing how the language is abused nowadays. I might add that smith was also shooting back with a gun snuck in to jail for use in helping him escape justice. Martyrs don't shoot back.. they go willingly to their fate knowing that better awaits them.

As I've said. Slof is talented. But this entire episode illustrates stupidity upon stupidity on her part.

 

[ace_of_something]

Jeez it's not like you're forced to download mods. Glad to see it's been resolved.

 

[Dogstile]

thats pathetic, it really is

i hope everyone who gave her hate mail dies, i honestly mean that