Homosexuality in ME3

[pffh]

I hate how it's a fad nowadays to push homos into everything, books, movies, tv series and games. There's always the annoying obligatory gay character.

This turns me off ME3 even more than it being and RPG, it's just a principle thing that bothers me.

Well considering that 1 in 10 people is gay and even more are bi it would be downright unrealistic NOT to include a gay or a bi person if the book/game/movie features ten or more characters.

 

[lunavixen]

Miranda, Kaiden and Ashley were all meant to be romancible by both Shepards, to be honest i wish they had left the option in at least, because we are meant to be able to shape our Shepard the way we want, and I see nothing wrong with homosexuality in games, that way, if people want their Shepard to be homosexual, then they can have it, and the people who want their Shepards straight can have it, i think by cutting the option out they have left quite a portion of who out Shepards could be, out.

 

[Seneschal]

In ME1, you can have your Shepard reply to Ashley's confession that she's Christian by saying: "You know how they say that there aren't any atheists in a foxhole? Well I've been to a lot of foxholes!" As an atheist, that offends me.

I'M KIDDING. It's a role-playing game. I'm an atheist male, and my favourite Shepard is the xenophobic catholic hypocrite CMDR Lola Shepard, her head adorned with a stern Hausfrau bun, that regularly fraternizes and sexually harasses subordinate young male officers. She's by far the most enjoyable character to play as, especially with the unbelievably horny cougar-like dialogue that Femshep has with Jacob in ME2.

But it's a choice. I can just as easily play the equivalent of a Lawful Good paladin, and were I somehow predisposed to play ONLY as a Lawful Good paladin, I'd be in the wrong to claim all other options shouldn't be available.

EDIT: Also, for all the fuss, it seems ME3 will have only two gay characters, and they won't be squadmates but shipboard NPCs, kinda like Joker. Plus Liara if you count her.

 

[Epona]

Also, isn't who your Shepard loves an important aspect of playing his/her role?

Only if it's a dating sim.

 

[A Weakgeek]

Bioware relationships have no dignity to begin with. It doesn't matter how its handled, they are all forced in anyways. Sure make Shepard gay, it cant make the relationships any worse.

 

[Something Amyss]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

 

[Something Amyss]

oh come off it, its a completly optional part of the series

And a long-standing part of this series, and their games in general.

Though they do seem less like RPGs and more like cover-based shooters....But complaining about the "dating sim" aspect, largely unchanged in years and years, is kinda funny.

I dunno... have you ever been to the GameFAQs forums? Or even the BioWare site itself?

You mean mutants and rabid fanboys?

Maybe I'm being a little homophobic or enforcing a double standard, but it will just be jarring for me if I'm walking around the Normandy and I find a gay couple.

Well, you are certainly enforcing a double standard.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

I'm not gay, I'm not, what's the word these days, "progressive"? I'm just a fundi Christian who simply wants people to quit giving him weird looks when they find out that I don't damn them all to Hell.

Then you're probably not a fundi Christian.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

nope, I ignored the options in the past and I will do it now. The issue I have with the "ghey" option is that its something that I don't feel that the developers need to spend time on. Instead I rather they focus on making sure the game doesn't have any bugs

 

[Heaven's Guardian]

Part of it is that Mass Effect was never a true open-world RPG. Shepard was a well-defined character for the most part and it seems like pandering to throw in a "oh, now you can make him gay" option in the last game. In fact, it means that once again we have a character whose backstory we aren't getting without initiating a relationship. I personally dislike the idea of creating a fully-customizable character in all RPGs, because story usually depends on characters having fairly intricate details. I don't think many of us would complain if it were present at the beginning, but to me it looks like a retcon and I don't much care for retcons.

So Shepard is such a well defined character that I can be fine with killing the council, punch reporters, be cool with genophages while another guy saves the council, does not punch reporters, and is not cool with genophages. But it would totally break it for him to be gay. Since he didn't show the obvious signs of it. Which are... well none besides wanting to have sex with the same gender.

As for the complaint about full customizability... none of that is relevant to him being gay if someone chooses a particular option. The story, however intricate, does not depend on that detail.

Also, I'm assuming that we aren't getting through ME3 without the deaths of one or more squad members even in a golden ending. (If someone has spoilers, DO NOT correct me on this). Assuming Vega is going to be the male gay option, and that we will have to kill a character, and that a lot of people are going to decide to kill off the newbie because we don't have any real affection for him from previous games: won't it look like a lot of us are just killing off the gay dude? I mean, I've already decided that he can die if it means getting to keep one of my more-liked squadmates alive, which I think a lot of other people are going to do. Will love to see the reaction if that happens and BioWare sees a 70%+ kill rate for the guy.

What kind of concern is that? Are the Internet police gonna bust down your door? Do you really feel like someone is going to attack you for killing the newbie?

Firstly, you are confusing player options with well-defined character. Really, the only options the player has in regards to that are romance options and who the player thinks Shepard should try to save. End of the day, this is not DA:O: Commander Shepard is a badass, well-respected soldier with commendations for bravery, considered the best of the best at combat, respected but not always trusted. Your decisions are very limited, and while the game has more freedom than a FF or Tales game, ME was never meant to be an open-world, play whatever sort of character you like series. You play as Shepard, and while you can make him or her make ethical vs. practical judgments, "your" Shepard is mostly Shepard and a little bit of you. As to the gay aspect: yes, it is a big issue. If Shepard was designed to be potentially gay, he needed to have the option to reject love potential love interests on that ground starting in ME1. Anything else has the feel of a retcon, and in any other medium we would laugh at the ridiculousness.

As for the second part: if/when BioWare gets stats saying that 70% of gamers or something killed the gay dude, you start getting activist groups whining about gamers all over again, and activist groups are really, really annoying. It doesn't matter why we do it: if the stats say that people overwhelmingly chose to off the gay guy, people will start bitching about homophobia and other such things, and I would really rather that the industry not waste time trying to appease angry people.

 

[Epona]

Though they do seem less like RPGs and more like cover-based shooters....But complaining about the "dating sim" aspect, largely unchanged in years and years, is kinda funny.

You know what's really funny? To say that because something has been a certain way for a period of time it cannot be criticized.

 

[Susurrus]

I dislike Bioware romances, maybe once they were good, I have fond memories of Viconia and Jaheria, and to a lesser extent Aerie, I always hated Anomen though. It just seems a bunch of fanservice twaddle nowadays, just another thing to tick off on the Bioware checklist.

/signed.

Viconia's was excellent, Jaheira's good, Aerie's was ok, and Anomen was just annoying even to have around.

Nothing that good since.

 

[Bradeck]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

nope, I ignored the options in the past and I will do it now. The issue I have with the "ghey" option is that its something that I don't feel that the developers need to spend time on. Instead I rather they focus on making sure the game doesn't have any bugs

The only way I can see this being a strictly 3rd person FPS space sim is if there were no aliens with giant DDs flopping around every port of call, Shep wasn't constantly bombarded by hyper-sexual females, and if there was really no chosen dialogue options in the game.

Unfortunatly, the game does have aliens with huge tits, dialogue options to fuck your crew mates, and long boring expository dialogue options to listen to crew members talk about their bone disease or their time in the Salarian SF. So it's not unreal to have other forms of sexuality in the game. Just because it's different doesn't mean they are shoe horning it in. No one had a big freak out when you had a romance option with the Quarian. Thats about as far of an alternative sexual preference as you can get. Way more alternative then human sodomy.

Further more, people are making WAY too big a deal out of this, especially the addition of a gay crew member. The fact that people are strictly opposed to a crew member coming out of the closet is horrible. I bet if it were Liara or Samara no one would care. But if it's Joker (My main suspicion, as he's the only one who isn't hyper hetero) I guarantee people will FLIP THIER SHIT. Bioware will have to shut down production, because butt hurt teens can't handle alternative sexualities.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

nope, I ignored the options in the past and I will do it now. The issue I have with the "ghey" option is that its something that I don't feel that the developers need to spend time on. Instead I rather they focus on making sure the game doesn't have any bugs

The only way I can see this being a strictly 3rd person FPS space sim is if there were no aliens with giant DDs flopping around every port of call, Shep wasn't constantly bombarded by hyper-sexual females, and if there was really no chosen dialogue options in the game.

Unfortunatly, the game does have aliens with huge tits, dialogue options to fuck your crew mates, and long boring expository dialogue options to listen to crew members talk about their bone disease or their time in the Salarian SF. So it's not unreal to have other forms of sexuality in the game. Just because it's different doesn't mean they are shoe horning it in. No one had a big freak out when you had a romance option with the Quarian. Thats about as far of an alternative sexual preference as you can get. Way more alternative then human sodomy.

Further more, people are making WAY too big a deal out of this, especially the addition of a gay crew member. The fact that people are strictly opposed to a crew member coming out of the closet is horrible. I bet if it were Liara or Samara no one would care. But if it's Joker (My main suspicion, as he's the only one who isn't hyper hetero) I guarantee people will FLIP THIER SHIT. Bioware will have to shut down production, because butt hurt teens can't handle alternative sexualities.

If a new character in the game is gay, I'm fine with that. If an established character is suddenly "coming out", it will stink of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuddenlySexuality

 

[Bradeck]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

nope, I ignored the options in the past and I will do it now. The issue I have with the "ghey" option is that its something that I don't feel that the developers need to spend time on. Instead I rather they focus on making sure the game doesn't have any bugs

The only way I can see this being a strictly 3rd person FPS space sim is if there were no aliens with giant DDs flopping around every port of call, Shep wasn't constantly bombarded by hyper-sexual females, and if there was really no chosen dialogue options in the game.

Unfortunatly, the game does have aliens with huge tits, dialogue options to fuck your crew mates, and long boring expository dialogue options to listen to crew members talk about their bone disease or their time in the Salarian SF. So it's not unreal to have other forms of sexuality in the game. Just because it's different doesn't mean they are shoe horning it in. No one had a big freak out when you had a romance option with the Quarian. Thats about as far of an alternative sexual preference as you can get. Way more alternative then human sodomy.

Further more, people are making WAY too big a deal out of this, especially the addition of a gay crew member. The fact that people are strictly opposed to a crew member coming out of the closet is horrible. I bet if it were Liara or Samara no one would care. But if it's Joker (My main suspicion, as he's the only one who isn't hyper hetero) I guarantee people will FLIP THIER SHIT. Bioware will have to shut down production, because butt hurt teens can't handle alternative sexualities.

If a new character in the game is gay, I'm fine with that. If an established character is suddenly "coming out", it will stink of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuddenlySexuality

Yeessss, because no one in an ultra machismo society would EVER seek to supress and deny their true feelings. That has never happened.....*cough* except all the dang time in High school, College, and the Army. Men and women are killed for coming out. I don't think this is going to be an in your face Hank Azaria type from Birdcage.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You have to admit that if it's socially acceptable to boink a space lizard, it would seem mighty odd that people got put off by same sex relations.

Most of our inhibitions now seem might odd to me. So I have to admit it, but that doesn't mean much.

Plus, we don't see much in either the games or the books by Drew Karpyshyn that indicate this is in any way the norm or really all that accepted. For all we know, if it got out that Earth's Greatest Hero was boinking space folk, s/he'd get a dishonourable discharge (Or blacklisted in 2, etc). We don't see any evidence of inter-species relations being common, to my recollection. In fact, we see that there's still a racism problem (Which seems odd, considering we now have whole other SPECIES to hate) as well, as often terse and sometimes downright hateful inter-species opinions and beliefs.

I mean, sure, it's not proof. But it certainly displays things a little more dystopian than people are suggesting, and does not automatically engender support of homosexuals.

Side note, the only option Firefox had for my misspelling of "dystopian" was "pianist." Amused me far more than it probably should have.

Because this is an action game, I don't need ME telling me about sexuality when I payed $60 to shoot aliens/robots.

I take it this is your first Bioware game, then? There's plenty of sexuality in them. Have you played one before? Were you protesting when te options were strictly straight and lesbian romances? Why is the "ghey" option such a big deal that suddenly it's all "I don't need sexuality in my shooty shooty?"

nope, I ignored the options in the past and I will do it now. The issue I have with the "ghey" option is that its something that I don't feel that the developers need to spend time on. Instead I rather they focus on making sure the game doesn't have any bugs

The only way I can see this being a strictly 3rd person FPS space sim is if there were no aliens with giant DDs flopping around every port of call, Shep wasn't constantly bombarded by hyper-sexual females, and if there was really no chosen dialogue options in the game.

Unfortunatly, the game does have aliens with huge tits, dialogue options to fuck your crew mates, and long boring expository dialogue options to listen to crew members talk about their bone disease or their time in the Salarian SF. So it's not unreal to have other forms of sexuality in the game. Just because it's different doesn't mean they are shoe horning it in. No one had a big freak out when you had a romance option with the Quarian. Thats about as far of an alternative sexual preference as you can get. Way more alternative then human sodomy.

Further more, people are making WAY too big a deal out of this, especially the addition of a gay crew member. The fact that people are strictly opposed to a crew member coming out of the closet is horrible. I bet if it were Liara or Samara no one would care. But if it's Joker (My main suspicion, as he's the only one who isn't hyper hetero) I guarantee people will FLIP THIER SHIT. Bioware will have to shut down production, because butt hurt teens can't handle alternative sexualities.

If a new character in the game is gay, I'm fine with that. If an established character is suddenly "coming out", it will stink of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuddenlySexuality

Yeessss, because no one in an ultra machismo society would EVER seek to supress and deny their true feelings. That has never happened.....*cough* except all the dang time in High school, College, and the Army. Men and women are killed for coming out. I don't think this is going to be an in your face Hank Azaria type from Birdcage.

It comes off as poor writing and pandering. Also I don't know who Hank is.

 

[Vault101]

I hate how it's a fad nowadays to push homos into everything, books, movies, tv series and games. There's always the annoying obligatory gay character.

This turns me off ME3 even more than it being and RPG, it's just a principle thing that bothers me.

I dont think its a fad

also youre use of the word "homo" is ringing some alarm bells

ALSO sure I get get the "token/steryotypical" gay person..but really its just one small thing that makes up a part of the charachter or any person in real life (you know..when done right)

 

[boag]

Bioware's newest dating sim. You guys remember when they made RPG's?

oh come off it, its a completly optional part of the series

I dunno... have you ever been to the GameFAQs forums? Or even the BioWare site itself?

But hey, they're still better than rabid yaoi fangirls (note my choice of words there), if you can believe that one...

Well yeah, its completely the companys fault that shippers are batshit insane and only care about the game because of their shitty waifus. /sarcasm

 

[Epona]

I hate how it's a fad nowadays to push homos into everything, books, movies, tv series and games. There's always the annoying obligatory gay character.

This turns me off ME3 even more than it being and RPG, it's just a principle thing that bothers me.

I dont think its a fad

also youre use of the word "homo" is ringing some alarm bells

ALSO sure I get get the "token/steryotypical" gay person..but really its just one small thing that makes up a part of the charachter or any person in real life (you know..when done right)

Alarm bells? Has the PC train gotten this far already? People HAVE to toe the pro-homosexual line now or they are an outcast in need of psychological help? I thought we were still a few years out from that lunacy.

 

[Vault101]

I hate how it's a fad nowadays to push homos into everything, books, movies, tv series and games. There's always the annoying obligatory gay character.

This turns me off ME3 even more than it being and RPG, it's just a principle thing that bothers me.

I dont think its a fad

also youre use of the word "homo" is ringing some alarm bells

ALSO sure I get get the "token/steryotypical" gay person..but really its just one small thing that makes up a part of the charachter or any person in real life (you know..when done right)

Alarm bells? Has the PC train gotten this far already? People HAVE to toe the pro-homosexual line now or they are an outcast in need of psychological help? I thought we were still a few years out from that lunacy.

eh...

IMO it seems like a knee jerk reaction "AAAAHHH STOP SHOVING THE GAY DOWN MY THROAT!!??" I mean cmon seriously?

that kind feels like me saying I dont want girl-on-girl shoved down my throat...or white brown haired male protgonists

also...I dont know the word "homo" is derogatory, I dont see any reason to use it other than making it look like the user has a prblem with gayness..why not just say gay people?

thats just me anyhow