Homosexuality Is Unnatural

[GrimSheeper]

It's wrong to be anything but a heterosexual from a point of view that only cares for the continued existence of a species. Homosexuals are not so frequent they could ever 'endanger' humanity or any other species. Gay parings still occur in animals though, so how unnatural and wrong can it be? Shout as much as you want that it's an error of evolution or a divine judgement of some sorts, that doesn't make it true.
It's not a choice either, as far as I'm concerned you're born that way and you have no say in the way you come to terms with your sexuality.

It's not a threat, it's not contagious, it's not dangerous. It's people being who they are and I would never see anyone as less for being not heterosexual. After all, my best friend is a bisexual.
Your grandmother, as stated, has a fixed view produced by the times she grew up in. She's too old to change and it's probably not even with malignous intent, she just never had any other view than that of the 30s-50s which is that white heterosexual males are what we should look up to as role models. I have a grandmother who is like-minded because she grew up anterior to World War 2 in Germany. What do you think her point of view is concerning homosexuals or immigrants?

On that note, I'm happy that gay scientists found the Christian gene and will be able to cure 'faith' very soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzbNkyXO50
Just for laughs after such a serious post. It is semi-related as well.

 

[Lesd3vil]

Here's a reply for you. Simply put, if it wasn't natural, how could it happen? Surely, if it was against the 'Inviolable Laws' (Comics Are Weird voice from Big Picture) of nature and how the world works, it just wouldn't happen, right? Same thing for cloning experiments, stem cell research, the myriad of different religions, and unfortunately all the strange alterations of mental processes that cause people to do things that most people wouldn't.

In terms of procreation? Well, here is the thing. Even if we did not live in a world full of technology, gay men and women still have the same bits. And here is the thing that people who are not GLBTQ tend not to understand - it isn't the sex act that makes us who we are. I was a lesbian before I ever had sex and I will still be one if I never had sex again (horrible thought). For those lesbians who have an instinct to procreate (and many do) they would still be lesbians even after they had sex to conceive because one act, or two, or ten, doesn't really matter. It is what is in your head, how you feel, how you relate to your own gender, more than what you do with your fun bits.

This ^^^^ ONE THOUSAND TIMES this... One problem I have with our society, is that through the influence of the Christian church belief system over the last millenium or so, 'Sex' has become inextricably bound to 'Love'... That's similar to saying that if I sing to a chick that I'm in love with her; and I sing to rooms full of men AND women on a regular basis... Just because I enjoy singing, doesn't mean performing for a particular person means I love them -.- I guess that was a poor analogy, but I've been awake a long time right now

EDIT: I heartily believe that babies are born 'tabula rasa'; WITHOUT sexuality, affiliation or morality, and we 'learn' or are consitioned into having these things as we grow older. Obviously there are certain biological drives that we impulsively or reflexively indulge or ignore, such as the need to eat, excrete, breathe, procreate... But everything else I always feel is a matter of how you were raised and what influences you.

 

[MightyRabbit]

Well scientifically speaking, the issue's actually pretty murky. We don't know if there is a genetic or neurological (actual) reason for homosexuality, or it's something animals arrive at independently like the use of tools. Then again, using penicillin isn't 'natural' as in inbuilt to humanity and that's not wrong. So calling it 'unnatural' may not be that bad.

 

[Richardplex]

I think the response to "Homosexuality is unnatural", along with other morally ambiguous areas around sex and sexuality, is dolphins. Dolphins have sex with the same gender, have sex for reasons other than reproduction, have sex involving more than just 2, been involved in bestiality started by the dolphin, and I believe I've read that they also commit incest to tighten bonds between them. Many areas that can be perceived as unnatural aren't, at least for the third most intelligent creatures (2nd being raptors, of course).

I'm also cool with homosexuality and incest, as long as the latter don't have children for the issues involved, without actually wanting to involve myself myself. If it doesn't harm anyone, nor inconvenience anyone deliberately, I don't see any moral issue arising. And with incest, I imagine it's more sibling incest rather than parent-child.

I'd also say I'm cool with bestiality if not for the issue of consent of the animal, but again, dolphins!

 

[novixz]

I myself am bisexual. Being gay/bisexual/whatever isn't a choice, why would people choose to be apart of something that goes through hate? They wouldn't want to make themselves hated, so why would they choose that. And difference is sexuality is normal. I think I read somewhere (IDK how accurate this fact is) that you'r sexuality depends on how much of certain chemicals you got in the womb. So yeah, it's natural from a biological standpoint.

 

[KindlySpastic]

What's really funny (or sad) is that it doesn't make any difference in a moral sense if homosexuality is unnatural or not. It's a complete Non Sequitur as far as morality goes.

 

[Fenix7]

My view: Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one, no-one has the right to force theirs on other people, and what someone's is is no damn business of anyone else.

Amen.

If everyone on the world would learn to respect other peoples beliefs and not try to force theirs on them, we'd have a world infinite times better.

 

[GraveeKing]

Thank god this isn't another troll thread! I read through it worried of another major flame war. Good to hear you're actually balanced and even though you'll obviously want to lean towards one side of the argument (because like me you're bisexual as you stated) you did try and take her view into consideration too.

Personally the best thing to do when someones tells me something similar is 'well a love of boobs is completely unnatural too!' they're nothing to do with actual impregnation, so why do so many heterosexual men obsess over them? 'oh no it's unnatural'. Your Grandmother is clearly just part of an older generation as people have stated before, she's been taught that her entire life, can't hold it again her. Anyone else who says today with a modern education is just being an idiot, I mean one look at the discovery channel or youtube and you'll find it's natural quite quickly!

 

[Turing]

What you need to realise is that when people say something is "unnatural" it actually means "I don't understand this and it frightens me please go away".

 

[BanicRhys]

The malfunction, as you put it, occurred naturally and is therefore natural. Also, blue eyes are a malfunction. Are you going to call that unnatural? Evolution itself is all about mutations being the natural course of life. You seeing something as abnormal does NOT make it unnatural. Unless aliens or god did something, it's natural.

And again you state your opinion on sex as fact. I hate to tell you, but the way you see things as "meant to be" doesn't make them true. Also, not only do homosexual animals have sex in the wild, dolphins have sex with one another all the time for no point other than pleasure. It's a documented fact.

I can tell you're far too biased to look at this topic from an objective point of view, so rather than continue to put up with your fallacies and conjecture I'll leave you with with a few quick counterpoints.

The malfunction, as you put it, occurred naturally and is therefore natural.

Natural = anything essential for a species' vital functions and procreation.

Evolution itself is all about mutations being the natural course of life.

How is a condition that prevents procreation a good thing in terms of survival, which is what evolution is all about. Adapting to survive your surroundings. If the human race was going through this "evolution" in its infancy I very much doubt any of us would be here today.

You seeing something as abnormal does NOT make it unnatural.

No I don't. I clearly explained why it is unnatural. You chose to ignore that just so you didn't have to see things from another perspective.

And again you state your opinion on sex as fact.

It is, I provided reasoning behind that and once again, you choose to ignore it. Or do you dispute that procreation is required to continue a species?

but the way you see things as "meant to be" doesn't make them true.

It was meant to be, if homosexuality was more prominent in the animal kingdom this world would be whole lot emptier.

Also, not only do homosexual animals have sex in the wild

Mutations.

dolphins have sex with one another all the time for no point other than pleasure.

Dolphins are highly intelligent creatures, it's understandable that they would understand that sex brings pleasure. Humans aren't the only creatures on this planet that can defy nature's plan.

Next time, if you're going to ask a question, maybe you should ask yourself whether you're actually going to listen to viewpoints that are contrary to your own.

 

[FluxCapacitor]

God in Heaven, no! Parents shouldn't have sex with their kids. If they choose to seek a relationship that happens to involve sex when their offspring are adults, that's fine.

See, but that's just it - I don't think that those familiy ties ever really go away. I'm a 27 year old man, and my mother is the only person in the world who can male me feel 10 years old again if we argue. I just can't see how that power arrangement would ever completely equalise with the person who made you, so I would think the younger would always be low-status. Plus, your family are supposed to be the fallback when your personal life gets all fucked up, and I daresay it screws up unconditional parental love in the aftermath of life/relationship collapse if your parent is your ex. It just completely changes the game, and I think only in detrimental ways. I can see your point for those few cases where a person has been adopted out then later met and fallen in love with a blood relative, but any time where there was a relationship growing up I think that incest is just totally wrong.

Sorry for the tangent, I know that this wasn't the real point of your thread but I just hate to see these two equated by the loony Right ("Allow gay marriage any it's a slippery slope to incest and bestiality!"), so I thought I'd better take issue with a liberal poster doing it too. I know that you're not advocating compromised consent, I just think you're simplifying the issue for this case...

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Next time, if you're going to ask a question, maybe you should ask yourself whether you're actually going to listen to viewpoints that are contrary to your own.

Oh I love to hear opinions! I just only really give credit to the ones with merit, is all.

 

[katsumoto03]

Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one,

LOLWUT?

Atheists don't, nor do agnostics...

OT: This video pretty much sums it up:


As for the whole: "Ahhhhh don't be so hard on your grandmother, she's from a different time maaaaann." That's no excuse for stupidity.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Sorry for the tangent, I know that this wasn't the real point of your thread but I just hate to see these two equated by the loony Right ("Allow gay marriage any it's a slippery slope to incest and bestiality!"), so I thought I'd better take issue with a liberal poster doing it too. I know that you're not advocating compromised consent, I just think you're simplifying the issue for this case...

Fair enough. I definitely see credit to your opinion. It's a complicated issue :/

 

[WolfThomas]

Wild animals have some the weirdest most diverse sex around, so no Homosexuality is not unnatural.

God in Heaven, no! Parents shouldn't have sex with their kids. If they choose to seek a relationship that happens to involve sex when their offspring are adults, that's fine.

There's still a problem in that there is still an inherent power balance with their offspring even if they're an adult too, it's the same reason a doctor isn't allowed to have a relationship with a patient even if they've stopped seeing them. The suspicion of childhood grooming, coercion and indoctrination is also present.

The only sort of example where it would be vaguely acceptable is the Oedipus scenario, where the person never knows their parents, meets someone and has a relationship. Then finds out they're their mother/daugther/father/son etc and most people would likely end the relationship after finding that out (plus vomit a couple of times).

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

The only argument against homosexuality I've ever heard was religious in nature.

To which I say this; If you're born that way, God made you that way. If it's a choice, God gave Man free will, and they have made their choice.

You'd be surprised at how many people that shuts up.

 

[Richard Eis]

It is funny how something can be so common that it leads religious people to need to define it as a massive threat to their personal way of life (ie telling other people what to do), while still being unnatural. It's like saying gold isn't natural because there isn't as much of it around as rocks.

 

[Kais86]

So are clothes, computers, this soda I'm drinking, deal with it.