Homosexuality Is Unnatural

[Treblaine]

Well homosexuality sure ain't artificial, it is not created in a calculated attempt by humans, it just happens. It just happens like having a birth mark, it has always happened for millennia.

What you could say is that it is abnormal or atypical, but it is certainly naturally occurring within the human condition.

PS: if she disapproves of her "unnatural" grandson so much leave her alone and forgotten, that is what anyone deserves for being so belittling.

PPS: make some black friends and bring them over to your Gran's house, make sure they are wearing cargo pants with big pockets, making many excuses to walk around the house unescorted. Your gran may be racist in private but she'll fold face-to-face.

 

[Windcaler]

Homosexual acts and emotions are IMO a natural part of our species. It occures in other species without outside influence just as it occures in ours without outside influence. Honestly arguing whether or not homosexuality is unnatural is useless, the only way we could be 100% certain is to ask our creator or if there is no creator we can never have an answer

I think there is another argument though, that being if it is unatural is that such a bad thing? Lets take a simple unatural event, when a doctor performs some kind of surgery. Obviously surgery has risks but it also has beneficial health effects by being able to remove cancerous growths or removing malfunctioning organs. This one instance shows that unatural events (read: things that dont happen in nature without outside influence/actions) are not, by default bad for our species

Anyway OP, Im sorry your grandmother gives you such a hard time. Keep in mind that there may be legitimate reasons for her outlook for example one of my close friends is very anti-gay because a few years ago a man tried to rape him. Oviously if it is that kind of situation it is exceedingly difficult to deal with, especially if you fall within the anti group.

 

[WolfThomas]

Two animals that I think show homosexuality being beneficial for the species are lions and penguins.

Sometimes two lions males from the same litter will end up leading a pride together, instead of there just being one alpha. As part of cementing their alliance, they let each other have sex with each other while the females are out hunting. So you've got this scenario where you get feed and have a chance to spread you genes to the females, instead of fighting and having to fend for yourself and not getting any sex. So in this scenario some incestuous gay sex leads to health and spreading your genes.

The other one is penguins, when there's too many males, they join lifelong gay relationships. This doesn't help their genes, but does help the species by preventing any fighting or other issues with females. Plus they've shown that if a male couple finds an abandoned egg they can actually raise it to be a healthy penguin, instead of it just dying. So there's that.

Both scenarios are odd, but I wouldn't call them unnatural.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one,

LOLWUT?

Atheists don't, nor do agnostics...

My point was that not believing in a religion is still a religious stand-point. And non-religious people (such as myself, before you get confused) still hold ideals that they personally believe in.

 

[katsumoto03]

Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one,

LOLWUT?

Atheists don't, nor do agnostics...

My point was that not believing in a religion is still a religious stand-point. And non-religious people (such as myself, before you get confused) still hold ideals that they personally believe in.

Actually, it's the lack of a religious standpoint. And yes, there is a difference.

 

[rossatdi]

Sexuality is like religion (bear with me here people). Everyone has one,

LOLWUT?

Atheists don't, nor do agnostics...

My point was that not believing in a religion is still a religious stand-point. And non-religious people (such as myself, before you get confused) still hold ideals that they personally believe in.

I think the sexuality is like religion is a pretty risky analogy given that religion is a choice and sexuality isn't.

Also, I do not have a religion, nor do I have a religious stand point. In census forms I check 'none' under religious belief. I have a stand point with regard to religion, but that's like saying a robot has a stand point regarding sex, he could understand it but not do it.

And as a kicker, morality and ideals can easily come from non-religious rationality and humanism.

 

[FluxCapacitor]

Lots of stuff

Whoa, there, that's a pretty thin definition of what's 'natural'. By your definition, sex after menopause or with a sterile partner is unnatural, as is masturbation. And if we're gonna get semantic about it, where do we draw the line on 'essential'? By your definition, all of society could be read as being inherently unnatural, since there are species that don't have it so it mustn't be essential. Is the definition of 'essential' allowed to vary over time as our species' lifestyle changes? The moment we as a species evolved to the point that philosophers realised 'man does not live on bread alone' did that make it so? If not, then it seems to me that your definition of 'natural' excludes a HUGE amount of what goes on in the world. Everything about human society must be somehow unnatural. Perhaps you need to redefine 'natural' based on what is, not what you want to see?

Surely nature is awesome enough to contain diversity of practice, to encompass a system that generated variety and difference as a way to be strong? The reason we're not all the same is that different species evolve into different niches, and thus thrive in different environments. If diversity and variety and experimentation are all natural on a macro scale for different species, why would it be particularly different on a human scale? The things that trigger your sexual desires don't work for a homosexual person, and theirs for you, but neither one of you is unnatural.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

My point was that not believing in a religion is still a religious stand-point. And non-religious people (such as myself, before you get confused) still hold ideals that they personally believe in.

Actually, it's the lack of a religious standpoint. And yes, there is a difference.

I suppose if you were brought up without religion and were an atheist then you could be held to have no religious viewpoints at all. But most atheists (that I know anyway) were brought up with a religion and then later in life refuted it. Deciding to turn away from a religion is just as much a spiritual choice as turning towards one.

 

[Darknacht]

So an alien species made them gay? Maybe a god did? If you consider it to be unnatural, the only other alternative is the supernatural.

To be blunt, homosexuality is a malfunction or mutation of sorts as far as nature is concerned anyway.

Also, who says sex is purely for procreation? That sounds like conjecture and opinion to me.

In nature, sex is for procreation only. Anything we do that does not aid our vital functions or procreation is unnatural.

Nature's purpose for us is to grow up, procreate and die. That is the purpose of every living thing, (hell, some animals even die straight after impregnating their partner).
Homosexuality prevents procreation, denies someone from fulfilling their natural purpose in life and is thus, unnatural.

The malfunction, as you put it, occurred naturally and is therefore natural. Also, blue eyes are a malfunction. Are you going to call that unnatural? Evolution itself is all about mutations being the natural course of life. You seeing something as abnormal does NOT make it unnatural. Unless aliens or god did something, it's natural.

And again you state your opinion on sex as fact. I hate to tell you, but the way you see things as "meant to be" doesn't make them true. Also, not only do homosexual animals have sex in the wild, dolphins have sex with one another all the time for no point other than pleasure. It's a documented fact.

The original purpose of sex was procreation, however as animals evolve more complex brains then tend to deviate from this concept. This is not unnatural(what ever that means) it is a sign of a complex brain. The more complex the brain the more likely the development of fetishes and alternate sexual orientations.

 

[Captain Pancake]

My Hypothesis is that it's nature's way of dealing with population growth. If a certain amount of the population is removed from the breeding pool by having a different sexual preference then it slows down the rampant growth of the human race. It makes sense given the recent concerns on the size of the population and the lessening taboo of homosexuality.

 

[Hamhandderhard]

Homosexuality may be a "deviation" from "normal" but it's not like humanity's future depends on gay people turing straight. I don't have a problem with homosexuality, as long as men don't hit on me or nothing.

 

[Ando85]

A lot of things unnatural are accepted. For example I love artificially flavored grape soda, yet don't care for real grape juice.

 

[rossatdi]

My point was that not believing in a religion is still a religious stand-point. And non-religious people (such as myself, before you get confused) still hold ideals that they personally believe in.

Actually, it's the lack of a religious standpoint. And yes, there is a difference.

I suppose if you were brought up without religion and were an atheist then you could be held to have no religious viewpoints at all. But most atheists (that I know anyway) were brought up with a religion and then later in life refuted it. Deciding to turn away from a religion is just as much a spiritual choice as turning towards one.

That's a pretty major assertion. Most people I know never started with a religious background and what little they did was forgotten by their teenage years. Rather than a spiritual choice to walk away, its something that never hooks a lot of people in the first place.

 

[gazumped]

overpopulation is a problem, this is an excellent way of dealing with it.

^This.

People say "homosexuality is unnatural because it doesn't produce kids".
But we don't need every couple on the planet to reproduce, in fact we need some of them to NOT reproduce, because we're running out of space and resources.

So could homosexuality be nature's response to overcrowding?

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I think the sexuality is like religion is a pretty risky analogy given that religion is a choice and sexuality isn't.

Yeah, I've already been (quite rightly) picked up on that. [user]Klumpfot[/user] suggested a better analogy would perhaps be race, but I didn't want my inbox to become even busier than it is already.

Guess I should have just kept my mouth shut!

That's a pretty major assertion. Most people I know never started with a religious background and what little they did was forgotten by their teenage years. Rather than a spiritual choice to walk away, its something that never hooks a lot of people in the first place.

I can only really speak from my own experience. When I was growing up both primary schools and secondary schools had hymns and prayers in daily assembly and organised trips to church for holidays like Easter and such, and all the local youth clubs were run by the local churches.

 

[Jonabob87]

I'm sorry but the "homosexuality is bad" "crap" has been around for millenia, it's not new.

Yhea people have thought all sorts of stupid things forever, its only become socially acceptable to be homophobic within recent decades. For the most part.

I'm also aware that exceptions exist, do you want to bang on about a few of those or stick to the thread?

Sorry but once again you're wrong. There have been hundreds of civilisations where homosexuality is frowned upon throughout human history.

The Hebrews, for example, are a society that has existed for about 5k years and they have always been anti-homosexuality.

In fact it's only become socially acceptable to be gay or pro-gay in recent decades, so your point is actually opposite to the truth.

 

[LitleWaffle]

If homosexuality or any other type unnatural besides heterosexuality, then how did it come to be in the first place? Did people do scientific experiments or something? Are there aliens living among us?

Or is that entire idea just plain stupid?

...

I'm going with the last option.

 

[funguy2121]

snip

Why, yes.

Gays are aliens. Or, more to the point...

http://www.aussie-nintendo.com/forum/blog.php?b=1054

(skim down a few pages)... aliens are gay.

 

[otterhead]

My grandfather's pretty racist towards French people in my province, but he's also over 80 and was raised quite differently than I. Unfortunate reality is no amount of logic will change the way of mind of someone who has accepted something as truth for decades upon decades. If a bunch of evidence was suddenly presented that the world was actually flat and all of our observations to the contrary explained and defeated, it would still take a very very long time for people to believe it.

On the topic of sexuality, it's all just neurochemistry. I'm fascinated what will happen many many years down the line when we can explain every nuance of our brain; I'm sure some chucklehead will develop a "cure" for homosexuality. Biologically, we all have traits brought about through a mixture of genetic and environmental factors. What's perceived as "normal" are the traits that the majority of the population present. There's nothing necessarily incorrect in that, but what I do take issue with are the short sighted people who will then define what's "abnormal" as the same as "wrong." And yet these same people will declare that the Nazis were evil and wrong in every sense, not seeing the irony in their statements.

And B.S. that animals aren't gay. My chinchilla will have sex with anything that moves or has a fluffy fabric. Had two males in the same cage once, it was a homo-erotic rodent party.

Aww how sweet. (About your pets).

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

If homosexuality or any other type unnatural besides heterosexuality, then how did it come to be in the first place? Did people do scientific experiments or something? Are there aliens living among us?

Or is that entire idea just plain stupid?

...

I'm going with the last option.

Dude, it's the aliens. Duh.