Yawn.him over there said:
And there was me thinking skill actually mattered. But thank you for confirming that it's actually the equipment that determines whether you'll win or not. It's not like some people are better at using a controller.
How come console FPS games don't include Mouse and Keyboard support?
- Thread starter Allthingsspectacular
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And there was me thinking skill actually mattered. But thank you for confirming that it's actually the equipment that determines whether you'll win or not. It's not like some people are better at using a controller.
Because they would get pub-stomped, similair to if you had PC Starcraft 2 vs Starcraft 2 on Consoles the console guys would lose.
To put it bluntly, you want to always sell your game to someone who owns the machine and the things that come with it. In a PC's case its a keyboard and mouse, I doubt that someone who just bought their first PC would buy a joystick and USB controller.
Theres a reason why theres been a drought and thats because of how big gaming is now compared to how it was back then. Now you want to cover at least the most basic things the person could have and not everything they might have.
If you want to argue that controllers are better for FPS then your wrong, just outright. If you want to argue controller preference then thats your preference, but that doesn't automatically make it instantly better.
On the subject that there exist no-such-thing there is a reason why extra-things for consoles such as different controllers such as joysticks died off because they became to niche, similar for PC's.GoaThief said:
To put it bluntly, you want to always sell your game to someone who owns the machine and the things that come with it. In a PC's case its a keyboard and mouse, I doubt that someone who just bought their first PC would buy a joystick and USB controller.
Theres a reason why theres been a drought and thats because of how big gaming is now compared to how it was back then. Now you want to cover at least the most basic things the person could have and not everything they might have.
Go play a FPS on the PC then on the Console, the first difference is turning speed, next would be stopping time. You'll be less likely to precisely hit a spot on console because of the stick having to recenter after being pushed in a direction, while on PC you'll be more precise because of how quick the mouse is to stop.Iron Criterion said:
If you want to argue that controllers are better for FPS then your wrong, just outright. If you want to argue controller preference then thats your preference, but that doesn't automatically make it instantly better.
Since the major publishers decided that every single frikkin game from now on would be an FPS, I'd say that was kind of accurate.GoaThief said:
Being serious, controllers are good for driving games, fighting games and maybe flight sims. But they also suck for strategy games, typing, inventory management, and the limited number of buttons means that games like RPGs, space sims, military sims etc have to be dumbed down to work with the controller.
I do have some hope for the Wii-U though. I think a standard controller with touchscreen and motion controls added will be a big leap forward. The touchscreen should compensate for the lack of buttons while the motion controls allow for precise aiming.
Eh, it's extra work, and extra work means extra development time and extra cost. Not only in getting the codes in to make the support work, but also in the game programming itself. See, the reason console FPS's have auto-aim and aim assist functions and PC games don't is because it's much easier to get precise aim with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller. So they also have to factor in balance--adjusting the keyboard/mouse gameplay to have fewer handicaps so they don't have they superior aiming system AND aim assist.Allthingsspectacular said:
I have to agree that it would be unfair to implement this in most FPS titles on consoles since most players would be using a pad anyway and it would give people using a keyboard and mouse an unfair advantage. Maybe if there was some way to detact who's playing with what and slpit up the servers that way, but that would proabaly need a bit of honesty from the player about what input devices they're using. However to a lot of people honesty doesn't seem matter as long as they can get a high K/D ration, albeit unfairly.
Actually the PS3 has native support for mouse and keybaord as it's not as closed down as the 360, there are a few games on the system that do let you use it, but I think it's mostly for easier navigation of the browser.ZippyDSMlee said:
oh god. I have NO IDEA. If they're worried about balancing MP, why don't they just include the option to make controller-only and keyboard-only games? UT3 did this. Counter-Strike will probably do this when it's released. The lack of keyboard/mouse support on consoles is so stupid it hurts me.
PC gamers like options console gamers like stuff to work as is.nu1mlock said:
OT: Some console gamers don't have the set up required to use keyboard and mouse and people are generally all expected to use the same stuff. Also it would require the complete removeall of auto aim like they did on the PC years ago.
That's splitting the community, I'm afraid.ajapam said:
To bring another genre into this: Fighting games.
In fighting games, there an option for people to use arcade pads. As someone who plays fighting games frequently, I can tell you that arcade pads, at least the high quality ones, are FAR superior to using a gamepad. And not just because I am used to it. They have tighter controls and better ergonomics and spacial placement of buttons for fighting games.
People who use arcade pads tend to do better against people who use default game pads.
Yet they aren't banned from fighting games.
You can really see a difference when playing Portal 2 with a PS3 and PC player together. If they both know what they're doing, the PC player has clearly the quicker and more precise controls being able to spin in all directions in less than a 3rd of a second. The PS3 player looks slow and looks like he's just taking his time.
Portal 2 despite being co-op, shows the heavy advantage of the mouse vs. thumbstick.
Portal 2 despite being co-op, shows the heavy advantage of the mouse vs. thumbstick.
That still doesn't change my point and in fact reinforces it. Just because a PC gamer plays on consoles doesn't have anything to do with the fact that one of the biggest selling points of the PC is flexibility and options at the cost of reliability while consoles offer an inflexible static option as the will work as is option. As far as I know the 360 does not have native mouse support but then again I haven't extensively looked into it so I could easily by wrong there.Crono1973 said:
Maybe you missed the part where I said more and more people are using controllers for PC. Modern PC gamepad controls are plug n play. In fact, another option PC gamers are choosing is to play on the couch, that's where the controller comes in.Glademaster said:
Which is flexibility and not reliability without the hassle. Being able to plug in a device without having to manually install or use a TV is not new. PC will never be as simple as consoles are in the near future as there is no trouble shooting or system specs among others of which to take care.Crono1973 said:
The first person shooter and the PC just works so well together with the aiming accuracy of the mouse which, I think, is so much better than analog sticks. The first person shooters of old were always on the PC until Goldeneye came by. I'm not a big fan of FPS's I must say but when one does come out and I yearn to play it, I buy it for my PC. If Half-Life episode 3 comes out, you can be sure I'm getting it on the PC 
What? It would be unfair?? That's the reason we've gone for like nearly 2 decades with gamepad only consoles?
You can afford a $300-700 dollar console but not a $5 mouse and 10 dollar keyboard? For that matter, gamepads cost WAY more than a mouse and keyboard combined, at least double the price. .
Simply put, you cannot deny that for some people Mouse+Keyboard gaming would be the pinnacle of PC gaming fun with the reliability (to not bug out, crash need patches, etc) and affordability of consoles.
"It would take development time and money" hardly... and besides, many developers are hopping on the kinect wagon, if they can afford THAT abomination, they can afford to program for a bloody mouse and keyboard, their QA team would thank them that's for freaking sure.
In short, I don't think any of these 'reasons' are correct, I believe it's all about MONEY.
Sad, but true. If you could game on a console with mouse and kb, a lot less Personal Computers would be getting sold. They gotta keep those Operating System numbers going up. Personally, I'm holding out for Windows 20 Deluxe Extra Decade Edition of Saucy Deliciousness.
Okay, I'm ceasing to make sense. Mike out! *jumps out of a window*
You can afford a $300-700 dollar console but not a $5 mouse and 10 dollar keyboard? For that matter, gamepads cost WAY more than a mouse and keyboard combined, at least double the price. .
Simply put, you cannot deny that for some people Mouse+Keyboard gaming would be the pinnacle of PC gaming fun with the reliability (to not bug out, crash need patches, etc) and affordability of consoles.
"It would take development time and money" hardly... and besides, many developers are hopping on the kinect wagon, if they can afford THAT abomination, they can afford to program for a bloody mouse and keyboard, their QA team would thank them that's for freaking sure.
In short, I don't think any of these 'reasons' are correct, I believe it's all about MONEY.
Sad, but true. If you could game on a console with mouse and kb, a lot less Personal Computers would be getting sold. They gotta keep those Operating System numbers going up. Personally, I'm holding out for Windows 20 Deluxe Extra Decade Edition of Saucy Deliciousness.
Okay, I'm ceasing to make sense. Mike out! *jumps out of a window*
Because it's not really much of a preference, it's a crystal clear advantage, very obvious from the fact console shooters have to throw in autoaim to compensate for the inferiority of a controller (don't get me wrong - if you prefer playing with a controller, that's fine; but it doesn't change the fact it's far less efficient).Allthingsspectacular said:
And if you're thinking "so, if you want the advantage, get the keyboard/mouse", that's not how it works. If they allow it, they're practically forcing it on people, particularly the more competitive ones. And if they wanted to play with a mouse and a keyboard, they'd do it on PC (which begs the question, why don't you?). This would drive a lot of the players away as they wouldn't want to be at a disadvantage or be forced to buy extra peripherals that they likely don't enjoy using when playing on a console.
Because keyboards and mice belong to the glorious PC Master Race!
Don't land on my car! I just had it waxed.michael87cn said:
That's because fighting games are a niche genre. Fighting games don't sell all that relatively well. A big chunk of the consumer base for fighting games are core players- the kind of competitive types, whether they're online warriors or tournament winners- who generally use nothing but arcade sticks and would outright refuse a game that barred use of it.Allthingsspectacular said:
I for one love my arcade stick, and use it for arcade games that I download from XBLA.