How could Final Fantasy be fixed?

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Raioken18

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Dec 18, 2009
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Bravely Default is everything I wanted from a FF game.

The Job System rocks, hear me Squeenix, keep the Job System!

Frankly I don't care about moving in 3d that much, the Bravely Default system was just... everything I wanted from a FF game. It was such a welcome surprise from a title I wasn't expecting.

I mean yeah sure graphics and stuff are fun and you can keep stacking different game play styles on top of each other, but games are just about having fun and the turn based combat is a bit slower and allows you time to think about what you will do. I'm just so smitten with this game, lol.
 

Eve Charm

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You can't fix final fantasy, It already went off the deep end. It's basically like Sonic, even if they can manage a good game people will still jump all over it saying how the entire series is crap now lumping it with it.

But if anything, Final fantasy still hasn't gone into space yet.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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Bringing back the spirit that has been missing since Sakaguchi and Uematsu left would be the first thing, but since Mistwalker exists, I'd rather buy games from them. I still feel that Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were the final two Final Fantasy games because they actually felt and played like what I expected a new FF game to.
Honestly I don't think Square can recapture what a lot of us loved about the older games and the attempts they've made have driven most of us away too much to care. Sad really when you think about it. Not for nothing but the Dissidia series was probably the last FF-tied games I enjoyed, and only because they weren't supposed to be actual parts of the series.
However, Square can keep making Kingdom Hearts games... they haven't really screwed them up yet.
 

Bloodstain

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WeepingAngels said:
I like most of your ideas (although I do like both side quests and mini games a lot; especially Tetra Master and Blitzball).
However...
WeepingAngels said:
- A mini game or two (not too many) that is optional (and never forced like Blitzball or the card game in FF9) and really helps you manipulate your stats, get experience or gives you equipment well ahead of it's time through normal game play.
I believe that, for many, an optional mini game that gives you equipment sooner or that improves your stats will not be very optional (me included).
Besides, while I agree that Blitzball was mandatory in FFX (although I liked how they tied it in), I can't reccall when FFIX ever forced you to play Tetra Master. Maybe once, as a tutorial, perhaps (if even)...but after that?
 

The_Scrivener

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RandV80 said:
Lots of people are mentioning the open world part, and that ties in heavily with my opinion: simplicity and getting back to your roots. Dragon Quest VIII would be a perfect example as inspiration.

Essentially, if you look at JRPG's from the start, I would break the gameplay down into several components:

1. Story/characters - motivation
2. Open(ish) World - exploration
3. Random battles - strategy/survival
4. Dungeons/Bosses - challenges
5. Towns - relax & reload

That's how these games originated, but starting with the mid-late PS one era things started getting 'streamlined' and cut out. People at Square started thinking the key parts of a JRPG was the story and battles, and started cutting everything else out until what you're left with was a sequence of straight line grinds followed by story cut scenes.

And speaking of the story, with the Final Fantasy series Square is guilty of something that's common in both professional wrestling and shounen anime: where each Wrestlemania/story arch/villain must be bigger and more spectacular than the last. But you can't continuously make something bigger and more epic eventually you're going to hit a wall, and if you keep trying it just becomes silly. And that silliness can easily be summed up with the plot summary of FFXIII. Someone needs to smack them upside the head with the concept that a story can start simple and still be great.

Solved. Nail: meet head.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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I'm not sure if it can. Going back to basics would be nice though. If the next major Final Fantasy is something along the lines of Final Fantasy 9, that would probably help. It would also help if the combat had more feeling of Agency. After playing Final Fantasy 13 for a hundred hours, even though I *knew* I was better at the game - There is a learning curve despite what people say and proper inputs are important - the game doesn't FEEL like it has agency. Only controlling a single character and even then inputting commands largely in the form of auto-battle really lowered the bar in terms of Combat Agency.

But thematically, and even in terms of game design, FF13, largely considered a major hiccup in the Final Fantasy series, is almost spot on with FF6, FF7, FF8, all the "greats". It's narrative is delivered a little hamfistedly, and it does lead you by the nose a little bit, and those games, particularly 7 and 8, had a LOT more to do in them.. but Thematically, they're basically the same. I re-discovered Final Fantasy 6 while playing Final Fantasy 13, and my initial thought was "Wow, they could basically turn FF6 into FF13 and it wouldn't necessarily look any different" and that thought lead to "holy shit, these are basically the same games."

The problem is, Square has focused more and more on "realistic" representations of characters, in a genre of games that is absolutely the least "realistic" in terms of... everything. Final Fantasy "cities" are tiny little hubs with scant few buildings with a couple of people wandering around. The sense of scale was corrected in FF12, and in FF13 it was largely impossible to get a sense of scale initially as its setting was described in such an assinine manner, but really Final Fantasy doesn't exist in anything resembling the real world.

And the closer Square gets to actualized realism, the further the logical leap our brain is forced to perform when trying to hold the contrary ideas of Realistic Characters in Wildly Cartoonishly Unrealistic setting in our head at the same time.

And can I just say right here, while we're on the subject of "good" final fantasy games.. Final Fantasy 6 had absolutely the worst, most attrocious, let down of an ending ever. If you count Mass Effect 3 as a single game and judge its ending based on the game itself and not as the culmination of a trilogy, Final Fantasy 6 absolutely blows it out of the water in terms of horrendousness. Final Fantasy 6 has a really dark setting. The World of Ruin is a depressing, depressing place, barely held in check by a crazy megalomaniac with unlimited power who wipes cities off the map on a whim.

And then after killing said megalomaniac and destroying the source of all of the heroes powers, leaving them stranded at the top of a treacherous perilous tower with no magic left.. None of their power left... they have a HILARIOUS little jaunt down the side of the tower getting into all sorts of wacky hijinx and misadventures. Honestly, when I played the game as a kid, I didn't see the ending often enough to realize how utterly bad it was, but this time, playing through it now, I was VERY engrossed in the game. I was grokking Final Fantasy 6 on a level that I never even pondered existence of..... and the ending was a slap in the face... an insult 15 years in the making. But maybe I'm being Melodramatic.. but if you could be there, when I finally beat it again after all these years... the disappointment was palpable.
 

beastro

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Phoenixmgs said:
Final Fantasy has never been good and has always needed to be fixed. The games have that typical boring and repetitive turn-based combat that just makes you navigate menus and nothing else. FFXII showed that every FF game could play itself with a few if-then-else statements (the gambits). If you want to do turn-based combat, it needs to be strategic or else it's just boring and slow.
It walks you through the game holding your hand. I noticed that around the time consoles and myself separated and I stuck to PC. It's a problem that plagues most JRPGs and was fine so long as the games story was intriguing (FFII,III,VI and passable with IX), but was tiresome when it wasn't (FFVIII).

With that said, by the time FFVIII came along I was already getting tired of the young teenage protagonists and I only include it and FFVII in that category by that mark and was happy that IX injected more adults into the line up. Before that FFII and III the youth were side characters and were often remote with 20 somethings dominating and focused more on coming of age or turning yourself around than being young.

Heck, now that I think about it even FFVII could pass by that with FFVIII being the real start of that plague given how much their casts age really factors into the story and their development.
 

Julius Terrell

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Feb 27, 2013
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I want 2D sprites and classic turned-based gameplay. I grew up with Final Fantasy and that was when the series was in it's prime. Even if my favorites are VI and VII respectively.
 

WeepingAngels

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May 18, 2013
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Bloodstain said:
WeepingAngels said:
I like most of your ideas (although I do like both side quests and mini games a lot; especially Tetra Master and Blitzball).
However...
WeepingAngels said:
- A mini game or two (not too many) that is optional (and never forced like Blitzball or the card game in FF9) and really helps you manipulate your stats, get experience or gives you equipment well ahead of it's time through normal game play.
I believe that, for many, an optional mini game that gives you equipment sooner or that improves your stats will not be very optional (me included).
Besides, while I agree that Blitzball was mandatory in FFX (although I liked how they tied it in), I can't reccall when FFIX ever forced you to play Tetra Master. Maybe once, as a tutorial, perhaps (if even)...but after that?
Yeah at one point you were forced to compete and win the card game to proceed. I remember it being a tournament of some type in a city. Can't remember the name of the city though. Whether a minigame is optional isn't based on the players OCD but rather whether or not you have to play it to proceed in the main story.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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beastro said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Final Fantasy has never been good and has always needed to be fixed. The games have that typical boring and repetitive turn-based combat that just makes you navigate menus and nothing else. FFXII showed that every FF game could play itself with a few if-then-else statements (the gambits). If you want to do turn-based combat, it needs to be strategic or else it's just boring and slow.
It walks you through the game holding your hand. I noticed that around the time consoles and myself separated and I stuck to PC. It's a problem that plagues most JRPGs and was fine so long as the games story was intriguing (FFII,III,VI and passable with IX), but was tiresome when it wasn't (FFVIII).

With that said, by the time FFVIII came along I was already getting tired of the young teenage protagonists and I only include it and FFVII in that category by that mark and was happy that IX injected more adults into the line up. Before that FFII and III the youth were side characters and were often remote with 20 somethings dominating and focused more on coming of age or turning yourself around than being young.

Heck, now that I think about it even FFVII could pass by that with FFVIII being the real start of that plague given how much their casts age really factors into the story and their development.
Whatever I am forced to do the most in a game, that better be good. The FF games and pretty much all JRPGs make you battle more than anything else so if I don't like the battle system, I'm not going to enjoy the game as most of my time will be spent not enjoying the game, I'm not going to trudge through the crap to get to the good stuff. I don't think the FF games have stories that are as good as people make them out to be. I played most of FF6, beat FF10 and FF12, none of those were good story-wise. I read a plot summary of FF7 so I could get what was going on in Advent Children and FF7's plot didn't seem like anything special either.
 

WeepingAngels

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Phoenixmgs said:
beastro said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Final Fantasy has never been good and has always needed to be fixed. The games have that typical boring and repetitive turn-based combat that just makes you navigate menus and nothing else. FFXII showed that every FF game could play itself with a few if-then-else statements (the gambits). If you want to do turn-based combat, it needs to be strategic or else it's just boring and slow.
It walks you through the game holding your hand. I noticed that around the time consoles and myself separated and I stuck to PC. It's a problem that plagues most JRPGs and was fine so long as the games story was intriguing (FFII,III,VI and passable with IX), but was tiresome when it wasn't (FFVIII).

With that said, by the time FFVIII came along I was already getting tired of the young teenage protagonists and I only include it and FFVII in that category by that mark and was happy that IX injected more adults into the line up. Before that FFII and III the youth were side characters and were often remote with 20 somethings dominating and focused more on coming of age or turning yourself around than being young.

Heck, now that I think about it even FFVII could pass by that with FFVIII being the real start of that plague given how much their casts age really factors into the story and their development.
Whatever I am forced to do the most in a game, that better be good. The FF games and pretty much all JRPGs make you battle more than anything else so if I don't like the battle system, I'm not going to enjoy the game as most of my time will be spent not enjoying the game, I'm not going to trudge through the crap to get to the good stuff. I don't think the FF games have stories that are as good as people make them out to be. I played most of FF6, beat FF10 and FF12, none of those were good story-wise. I read a plot summary of FF7 so I could get what was going on in Advent Children and FF7's plot didn't seem like anything special either.
The stories suffer from bad translations. On the other hand, if you break them down to just the story (reading off a wiki) then you see the story is nothing special. Of course, if you reduce a movie to it's base story, it's likely to be nothing special too.
 

WoW Killer

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Dunno about fixing it, but I think Square should do a Nintendo thing and do regular retro releases along side their AAA games. I mean the old style SNES era FF games could be hammered together in weeks with the assets Square have at their disposal. Keep doing those big releases in the hope of finding something new and big that works, sure, but knock out some regular old-school sprite based stuff at the same time to keep the masses happy. I don't know why they're not already doing this.
 

WeepingAngels

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WoW Killer said:
Dunno about fixing it, but I think Square should do a Nintendo thing and do regular retro releases along side their AAA games. I mean the old style SNES era FF games could be hammered together in weeks with the assets Square have at their disposal. Keep doing those big releases in the hope of finding something new and big that works, sure, but knock out some regular old-school sprite based stuff at the same time to keep the masses happy. I don't know why they're not already doing this.
They are.

Final Fantasy 1-5 are available on mobile devices and 6 is incoming. They even talked about bringing 7.

Final Fantasy X and X-2 are incoming on PS3 and Vita. Final Fantasy 1-9 are available on the PS3 and PSP. Vita can play 3-9 in North America.

On mobile they have also released a couple of new FF games, Dimensions and All the Bravest (don't buy this one).
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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WeepingAngels said:
Phoenixmgs said:
beastro said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Final Fantasy has never been good and has always needed to be fixed. The games have that typical boring and repetitive turn-based combat that just makes you navigate menus and nothing else. FFXII showed that every FF game could play itself with a few if-then-else statements (the gambits). If you want to do turn-based combat, it needs to be strategic or else it's just boring and slow.
It walks you through the game holding your hand. I noticed that around the time consoles and myself separated and I stuck to PC. It's a problem that plagues most JRPGs and was fine so long as the games story was intriguing (FFII,III,VI and passable with IX), but was tiresome when it wasn't (FFVIII).

With that said, by the time FFVIII came along I was already getting tired of the young teenage protagonists and I only include it and FFVII in that category by that mark and was happy that IX injected more adults into the line up. Before that FFII and III the youth were side characters and were often remote with 20 somethings dominating and focused more on coming of age or turning yourself around than being young.

Heck, now that I think about it even FFVII could pass by that with FFVIII being the real start of that plague given how much their casts age really factors into the story and their development.
Whatever I am forced to do the most in a game, that better be good. The FF games and pretty much all JRPGs make you battle more than anything else so if I don't like the battle system, I'm not going to enjoy the game as most of my time will be spent not enjoying the game, I'm not going to trudge through the crap to get to the good stuff. I don't think the FF games have stories that are as good as people make them out to be. I played most of FF6, beat FF10 and FF12, none of those were good story-wise. I read a plot summary of FF7 so I could get what was going on in Advent Children and FF7's plot didn't seem like anything special either.
The stories suffer from bad translations. On the other hand, if you break them down to just the story (reading off a wiki) then you see the story is nothing special. Of course, if you reduce a movie to it's base story, it's likely to be nothing special too.
Did you not read most of my posts? My main complaint of the FF series is the gameplay. You spend most of your time fighting enemies and the battle systems always suck. I don't care how good the story is, I'm not trudging through crap to get to the good stuff. I played most of FFVI, beat FFX and FFXII, and there's nothing special or great about the story or the characters in any of those games. Bayonetta from a story and character perspective is more engrossing.
 

WoW Killer

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WeepingAngels said:
They are.

Final Fantasy 1-5 are available on mobile devices and 6 is incoming. They even talked about bringing 7.

Final Fantasy X and X-2 are incoming on PS3 and Vita. Final Fantasy 1-9 are available on the PS3 and PSP. Vita can play 3-9 in North America.
Not quite what I meant. Take for instance the engine and all the assets from FF6, and knock up a brand new story with it. You'd need a handful of new sprites for the main characters, but most of them could be reused (monsters, generic townsfolk etc.). The point is, such games would cost very little to make. They should be churning these things out.
 

WeepingAngels

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May 18, 2013
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Phoenixmgs said:
WeepingAngels said:
Phoenixmgs said:
beastro said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Final Fantasy has never been good and has always needed to be fixed. The games have that typical boring and repetitive turn-based combat that just makes you navigate menus and nothing else. FFXII showed that every FF game could play itself with a few if-then-else statements (the gambits). If you want to do turn-based combat, it needs to be strategic or else it's just boring and slow.
It walks you through the game holding your hand. I noticed that around the time consoles and myself separated and I stuck to PC. It's a problem that plagues most JRPGs and was fine so long as the games story was intriguing (FFII,III,VI and passable with IX), but was tiresome when it wasn't (FFVIII).

With that said, by the time FFVIII came along I was already getting tired of the young teenage protagonists and I only include it and FFVII in that category by that mark and was happy that IX injected more adults into the line up. Before that FFII and III the youth were side characters and were often remote with 20 somethings dominating and focused more on coming of age or turning yourself around than being young.

Heck, now that I think about it even FFVII could pass by that with FFVIII being the real start of that plague given how much their casts age really factors into the story and their development.
Whatever I am forced to do the most in a game, that better be good. The FF games and pretty much all JRPGs make you battle more than anything else so if I don't like the battle system, I'm not going to enjoy the game as most of my time will be spent not enjoying the game, I'm not going to trudge through the crap to get to the good stuff. I don't think the FF games have stories that are as good as people make them out to be. I played most of FF6, beat FF10 and FF12, none of those were good story-wise. I read a plot summary of FF7 so I could get what was going on in Advent Children and FF7's plot didn't seem like anything special either.
The stories suffer from bad translations. On the other hand, if you break them down to just the story (reading off a wiki) then you see the story is nothing special. Of course, if you reduce a movie to it's base story, it's likely to be nothing special too.
Did you not read most of my posts? My main complaint of the FF series is the gameplay. You spend most of your time fighting enemies and the battle systems always suck. I don't care how good the story is, I'm not trudging through crap to get to the good stuff. I played most of FFVI, beat FFX and FFXII, and there's nothing special or great about the story or the characters in any of those games. Bayonetta from a story and character perspective is more engrossing.
Clearly I was answering the part of your post that talked about stories. If you didn't want to discuss that, you shouldn't have said anything about it.

So you don't like the stories and you don't like the game play. Why are you even in this thread. People who want to fix Final Fantasy generally like SOMETHING about the damn games. I don't go into threads asking how to fix Call of Duty because I don't like Call of Duty in the first place.

What would you like Final Fantasy to become? Bayonetta?
 

WeepingAngels

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WoW Killer said:
WeepingAngels said:
They are.

Final Fantasy 1-5 are available on mobile devices and 6 is incoming. They even talked about bringing 7.

Final Fantasy X and X-2 are incoming on PS3 and Vita. Final Fantasy 1-9 are available on the PS3 and PSP. Vita can play 3-9 in North America.
Not quite what I meant. Take for instance the engine and all the assets from FF6, and knock up a brand new story with it. You'd need a handful of new sprites for the main characters, but most of them could be reused (monsters, generic townsfolk etc.). The point is, such games would cost very little to make. They should be churning these things out.
1) Let's look at what you actually said:

but knock out some regular old-school sprite based stuff at the same time to keep the masses happy.
You could easily be talking about ports here.

2) You cut off the part of my post where I said they made Dimensions, which is a new game based on old school Final Fantasy ideas.