How did The Escapist's culture change so much?

[Zontar]

He's an openly gay character, therefore he's a "Social Justice Warrior Character". Quite literally said right there.

Keep on pretending he's not saying it's a "Social Justice Warrior" move despite doing just that. Like I said, hit me up with a quote there if you want to discuss in more detail.

You could describe it in vague detail first. Unless you only frequent this site, you'd probably be aware that a fair number of people seem to be acting like the character is the second coming, which is probably where the sentiment comes from.

So no links to anyone "forcing more gays into games", just some talk about consumer boycotts with no sources.

On your second note, both people I linked that called games acknowledging gay people exist a "Social Justice Warrior" move have admitted they don't know much about MKX. Weird that.

Oh please, don't pretend you haven't seen the smear campaign that happens every other month against a triple A game for crime of having a straight white protagonist (or a presumably straight white protagonist) that happens like clockwork.

As for your second note, no, you haven't made the link between either stating that acknowledging gay people exist is an SJW move.

Oooooooooooooh snap. No sources and now a claim you distinctly remember it coming from me?

Weird because I distinctly remember me saying the complete exact opposite, repeatedly.

I would absolutely love, just love, for you to source those claims that you "distinctly remember" coming from me. This is getting better and better.

Alright, I was wrong about where you stood on the matter, that doesn't change the fact that of the voices that where calling for a forum of our own to be given, it was pretty universally from those against GG (hell, I don't even need to add a link, your own shows that).

Still no sources. Any you distinctly remember coming from me there too?

I'm not searching through months old inactive threads to find them, and do you really think that, given who the people where who made up their fanbases at the end, none of the people who would take issue with someone being hired who is transphobic would also be fans of the (former) resident champions of social injustice on this site?

I do remember you commenting on one of the threads, though I don't remember what it was since I skipped over it and it was months ago.

Nah I'd consider changing the rules to accommodate them and giving them their own sub-forum to be bending over backwards.

Here's a challenge, and unlike digging through months old threads this is one even I wouldn't be lazy enough to not do.

Name one rule.

Name one rule that was changed because of GamerGate for us. And ethical policies and disclosure do not count, as every major gaming site has done it.

And I'd also like to know one pro-GG user who called for our own subforum, because as it stands it's exclusively anti-GGers who to my knowledge have called for it.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I have a game where I'll try to guess someone's opinion by their join date. I'm pretty damn accurate for August/September 2014 and April 2015. I think that might give some insight as to why the balance of user opinions has changed so much

Calling for boycotts of games which don't feature gays or other minorities or women as the protagonist.

Uh... what?

I've never seen this. Greater than 95% of games don't feature gay characters, I don't see 95% of games being boycotted. ~80% of games don't have female protagonists, I don't see 80% of games being boycotted. I'm pretty sure there might be criteria beyond just that for whatever boycotts are happening

Hell, I hardly ever seen any games getting boycotted, most I see is criticized.

 

[Loop Stricken]

I just assuming the site change according with the times (internet news and social etc) since a few years ago there was no such thing as "gamergate", Mass Effect 3 wasn't made and Anita Sarkeesian was setting up her kickstarter.

In saying so I do know alot of people left during the Extra Credits controversial.

I still don't know what Gamergate is, and at this poin t I'm too afraid to ask.

(I lied, I kinda know, but I don't know which side of the fence is the "stop shagging people for good reviews and lying about it" camp. Pro or anti? Iunno.)

 

[The Bucket]

I think the biggest change to the Escapist culture is that it feels way less insulated from the internet at large. A few years ago, it had a definite attitude of elitism (I dont even think it was bad, but the forum at large did feel it was better/more intelligent/more civilized than the average site). That's gone now, and I dont think you can point to a single cause for it, it was eroding even back to the Mass Effect kerfuffle

 

[CeeBod]

I'm sorry but that's...very silly.

-snip-

Nobody gives a shit. The persecution complexes some gamers have are absolutely ridiculous. 99% of the time they're the result of nerds yelling at other nerds on internet forums they willingly went to for the express purpose of shouting at one another.

I genuinely felt like standing and applauding that post, and not just because it's always nice to see another gamer that's as old as I am! )

I would award you some internets, but given that they're full off overly angry nerds these days that doesn't seem like the good thing it used to be! p

 

[Silvanus]

Calling for boycotts of games which don't feature gays or other minorities or women as the protagonist

This isn't a thing. If it is, it's an absurdly tiny fringe thing. I've never seen it on this site.

Way too many damn times have I seen arguments for diversity misrepresented as arguments that any games without minorities are bad. Nonsense.

 

[DocMcCray]

Polarization. It is the main reason I haven't posted and don't post or visit as much.

There is much more of a "if you don't believe this, you are the evil polar opposite of what we stand for" mentality. And this is from all groups who believe in something, not just GGs or just feminists or just progressives, etc. It's from everyone. Those who understand the spectrum mentality rather than the black and white model tend to be either ignored or insulted where as the pre-Anita & pre-GG movements, there was much more civil discussion and disagreements were engaged rather than run out of town.

There are other reasons I can come up with, but by this point stamina to read long posts tends to wane this far into a thread.

 

[Zontar]

Calling for boycotts of games which don't feature gays or other minorities or women as the protagonist

This isn't a thing. If it is, it's an absurdly tiny fringe thing. I've never seen it on this site.

Way too many damn times have I seen arguments for diversity misrepresented as arguments that any games without minorities are bad. Nonsense.

I may have embellished how often it happens, but when it comes to triple-A games, it happens, though what is much more common is the passive-aggressive "look at those dozen white dudes at 3d from supposedly different games" from people who aren't planning to play the games who would tear them to shreds if the player character was a women or minority for being too clinched and stereotypical *cough* Bob *cough*

I remember Mass Effect getting flak and a few calls for boycotts, as well as Assassin's Creed. Yes it was by fringe groups, yes it was by people who never intended to buy the game in the first place, and yes in the case of the latter a company's PR guy made a stupid statement, but it still happens and I have no idea why.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

A lot of more 'prominent' users also drifted more towards user groups than threads

Don't be afraid to use the Ignore function if you have to. It's there for a reason! :3

I just wish that they made a "ignore forum section" button.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

I just wish that they made a "ignore forum section" button.

Well you don't HAVE to visit any part of the forums you don't want to...

Just block it from your cranium and happiness will be had

Ignorance sometimes truly is a bliss c:

 

[Silvanus]

I may have embellished how often it happens, but when it comes to triple-A games, it happens, though what is much more common is the passive-aggressive "look at those dozen white dudes at 3d from supposedly different games" from people who aren't planning to play the games who would tear them to shreds if the player character was a women or minority for being too clinched and stereotypical *cough* Bob *cough*

In fairness, I think it's fair to poke fun at homogeneity. And that's really what those white dude collages are doing.

It's like making a collage of all the different shooters with brown/lighter brown as their palette.

I remember Mass Effect getting flak and a few calls for boycotts, as well as Assassin's Creed. Yes it was by fringe groups, yes it was by people who never intended to buy the game in the first place, and yes in the case of the latter a company's PR guy made a stupid statement, but it still happens and I have no idea why.

A boycott is a silly response, but you must admit it's a different case criticising an RPG with a specific focus on player choice, including romance.

RPGs like Mass Effect have intentionally focused on giving the player their own choices: they create their Shepherd, make the choices they want, and choose the partners they want. Part of the central appeal is choice-based role-playing-- including romance. It sends a bit of a message to exclude certain types of relationship.

It's not just a case of a game not having a gay protagonist (since that's true of all but one game); it's a case of excluding the option, in a game that's all about choice. This is a different kettle of fish from a game with a set protagonist in a set story.

 

[Guerilla]

Now I look at the list of popular forum posts and they're all about how men are oppressed, how women are stupid, exactly the sort of stuff that I'd loved this site for avoiding. How did the site's culture change so fast? Is it a coarsening of the gaming community at large, or is it just the new people? Was I wrong to think that this site was ever any different than all the others?

Nice strawman there megs. Do you really? Do you really read popular forum posts saying that women are stupid or men oppressed (other than sarcastic posts using feminists' logic against them) in this forum? Or is it another fallacy you're using to criticize the site because it doesn't censor people whose opinions you don't like?

As far as I'm concerned the site has remained the same, they don't tolerate personal attacks, obvious bigotry and shitposting but other than that it's a free speech zone where everyone can express their opinion. What's really changed is the fact that feminists and their SJW ilk have increasingly been lobbying for censorship in every facet of the internet, what's really changed is the demands and entitlement from these people to censor opposing views and discredit those saying them so every site and online community that doesn't obey or follow is attacked and slandered as bigoted.

 

[Snotnarok]

Honestly I rarely post anymore because I've gotten typical youtube responses here where my opinion on a game isn't valid because it scored well and sold well, so I'm an idiot for not liking it.
As you said, community used to be different and if that happened you'd likely get someone saying "hey, everyone is different"

Now it's the front page covered in top-10 lists and comments I feel are 10 IQ points away from being in all caps.

 

[Guerilla]

Honestly I rarely post anymore because I've gotten typical youtube responses here where my opinion on a game isn't valid because it scored well and sold well, so I'm an idiot for not liking it.
As you said, community used to be different and if that happened you'd likely get someone saying "hey, everyone is different"

Now it's the front page covered in top-10 lists and comments I feel are 10 IQ points away from being in all caps.

The mods immediately ban or warn people who use ad hominems against posters for stating their opinion. So I guess you must have been reading a different forum. This is the forum where people write half a book to support their opinion, you must be confusing this place with tumblr where people reply with "shut the fuck up shitlord" or "I love your male tears" when people make a valid argument.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Now it's the front page covered in top-10 lists and comments I feel are 10 IQ points away from being in all caps.

To be fair, those lists were always here.

It just became... more noticeable after... renewal of the escapist.

 

[Sarge034]

snip

In short, it got popular. A small group of people tend to be more close knit and civil when enjoying a shared pastime, large groups do not. On top of that the staff seemed more like really dedicated users because it was such a small thing, not so much anymore.

Sry bout the hipster answer, but it's true... XD

 

[Sarge034]

double post

 

[Signa]

All I'm saying here is a lot of people have historical amnesia when it comes to how gamers have been treated.

There was a golden age, once, roughly between 2008-2010, when video games weren't mainstream, but you could at least play them and still be considered a fully functional adult with a job/family/puppy.

But when people realized games could be platforms for personal political ideas, and journalists/critics starting judging games based on the creators rather than the game's merit, everything fell apart. Whatever fragile respect games like Mass Effect 2 and Arkham Asylum earned us has long since fallen away.

Every game you play is now seen as a political statement and a declaration of allegiance to one group or another.

I'm sorry but that's...very silly.

I've been gaming since...I'm going to say about 1982. When I was in elementary and high school, gaming was about as fringe as it ever was. Very few people had personal computers. Consoles were still quite uncommon, even. In terms of appealing to girls at the time gaming was roughly approximate to leprosy. How often was I bullied BECAUSE I was a gamer? Zero instances. Through high school? Zero instances. Through University? Zero instances. As an adult? Zero instances. Which is not to say I was never bullied or given a hard time for anything in life, I was just never given flack for being a gamer.

Worst thing I ever saw was in college, when my roommate's girlfriend found him playing Nintendo with me (we'd rented it) and refused to kiss him, saying "I don't kiss little boys". So he said "sorry dude" and they went to his room and fucked. OH THE HUMANITY.

Generally speaking the common reaction to my gaming (which is my runaway #1 hobby) by non-gamers is, at worst, apathetic disinterest. If I asked any of them to make a political statement about me based on, say, my affection for XCOM or Bioshock or Total War, they'd look at me like I grew an extra head.

Nobody gives a shit. The persecution complexes some gamers have are absolutely ridiculous. 99% of the time they're the result of nerds yelling at other nerds on internet forums they willingly went to for the express purpose of shouting at one another.

I'm glad for you, but I was born in '83, and have been gaming since I was 3. My experience throughout life was closer to Silentpony's than yours. I can't say I've internalized any of the specific events, but I do remember the sentiments. People are judgmental and shitty, but I try to just do my own thing because that's what makes me happy.

OT: I've been here a LOOOONG time. Things have definitely changed, and for the worse. It used to be pretty chill here, and the only thing I remember people getting yelled at for was bad grammar.

The current trend of gaming politics is interesting on the surface. It shows that the medium is growing up and getting mainstream acceptance, but I'm convinced that it's doing it's best to shed its core and identity to fit that mainsteam appeal. I don't like that. I've been gaming since I was 3 because it appealed to me as it was. Now all we do is bicker and argue about bullshit that doesn't matter.

I could say more, but the more I want to add, the more ranty it gets, and this isn't the place for that.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I genuinely felt like standing and applauding that post, and not just because it's always nice to see another gamer that's as old as I am! )

It's not easy having more than two decades under your belt on this forum sometimes, I tells ya. Most days I feel like this:

Spoiler

People will make a "name the video game that got you started!" thread and people are posting MASS EFFECT! and BIOSHOCK! and I just want to curl up and have a cry.