It's bad for the industry. If you play video games you should have the decency to support the companies who make what you like. It's way way more of a hassle to steal a game anyway, worth 50 bucks just to not have to deal with that, to me.
How do you feel about illegal game downloads?
- Thread starter Xojins
- Start date
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Obviously I don't condone game piracy. I also don't condone invasive DRM.
That said, I have pirated several games simply because I couldn't find them at any legitimate outlet. I recently found Gog.com [http://www.gog.com/en/frontpage/], and if its library expands a bit it will be a very good resource for this. I already used it to buy Giants: Citizen Kabuto, and I might use it to buy Fallout Tactics when I finish Fallout 2.
That said, I have pirated several games simply because I couldn't find them at any legitimate outlet. I recently found Gog.com [http://www.gog.com/en/frontpage/], and if its library expands a bit it will be a very good resource for this. I already used it to buy Giants: Citizen Kabuto, and I might use it to buy Fallout Tactics when I finish Fallout 2.
Illegal downloads are stolen, it's the same, if someone takes work from me and doesn't pay for it.
I feel good about them. Why? Because it's just repayment for companies who rip off consumers. You wanna release your CD, then put only 1 good song on it and charge full price? Fine, people will just go download it for free. Wanna stick stupid garbage like DRM all over your games? Great, people will either pirate them or not play the games at all.
If good games get released without all that DRM garbage, people WILL buy them. A lot of people use piracy to try something before they buy it, but if a game is actually good they'll end up purchasing it.
Sometimes piracy can introduce gamers to underrated gems they never knew about, which they will then buy. I wouldn't have learned about Dragon Ball: Advance Adventure if not for piracy. Once I did play it, however, I RUSHED out to get in on launch. I couldn't pay for it fast enough. And I bought it new, so all the money went directly to the game devs themselves. Piracy actually GAVE them business. I'm pretty sure I was about the only person who cared about the launch of that game, however. I think the clerks were kind of looking at me funny. Oh well, it's a great game. Kirby's Adventure meets Metal Slug.
If good games get released without all that DRM garbage, people WILL buy them. A lot of people use piracy to try something before they buy it, but if a game is actually good they'll end up purchasing it.
Sometimes piracy can introduce gamers to underrated gems they never knew about, which they will then buy. I wouldn't have learned about Dragon Ball: Advance Adventure if not for piracy. Once I did play it, however, I RUSHED out to get in on launch. I couldn't pay for it fast enough. And I bought it new, so all the money went directly to the game devs themselves. Piracy actually GAVE them business. I'm pretty sure I was about the only person who cared about the launch of that game, however. I think the clerks were kind of looking at me funny. Oh well, it's a great game. Kirby's Adventure meets Metal Slug.
I acknowledge its existence and, lately, its necessity. The former is something that major game companies have accomplished, which brings us into the latter. EA and the like see piracy as a place to do finger wagging and general accusatory pointing(all in all, most of their work involves giving someone the finger). Whenever profits are down, it's piracy. "We need to have SecuROM giving our customers a tremendous slice of the ol' dick pie, because those nasty pirates have yarred themselves a sizeable share of our profits!" speaketh the livid EA marketers. Now the only way to get a functional copy of a game in some cases is to surf bittorrent.
I'll be honest, the EA thing hits me a bit hard, because it puts me amidst a dilemma. I was pretty OK with simply bidding a brief and uneventful "fare thee well" to their entire computer game lineup, then C&C: Red Alert got released and suddenly my heart leapt into my throat in an effort to escape me so that I could not feel it break. One way I could deal with this is by buying the game and then pirating it, but then I'm sending the message to EA that I condone their practices by buying a copy of their shit-riddled game. If I simply pirate it, I give them not only a stronger position from which they may resume their pointing, but I compromise my ethics in the process. The only way I could see myself doing this is by:
Step 1: Pirate Game
Step 2: Get $40, put it in an envelope
Step 3: Write a longwinded letter about why EA is getting the money in such a fashion, and that they'll have their other $20 when they take off their assware so that I can play online with a legitimate copy, not having to worry about DRM crippling something in my computer.
Step 4: Send the envelope with no return address.
Currently, I'm too lazy to accomplish this task, and enough alternatives are out there that I've no interest in making the effort, but a need to control gun-wielding bears and tesla coils will eventually override my good sense. You can blab all you want about how it's their game and they have the right to distribute it how they want, but they don't. They hide behind both copyright law and DRM. If you are abusing the legal system so that it will protect your business interests while shitting all over your customers by treating the legitimate ones like criminals, you don't get to take the moral high ground.
I'll be honest, the EA thing hits me a bit hard, because it puts me amidst a dilemma. I was pretty OK with simply bidding a brief and uneventful "fare thee well" to their entire computer game lineup, then C&C: Red Alert got released and suddenly my heart leapt into my throat in an effort to escape me so that I could not feel it break. One way I could deal with this is by buying the game and then pirating it, but then I'm sending the message to EA that I condone their practices by buying a copy of their shit-riddled game. If I simply pirate it, I give them not only a stronger position from which they may resume their pointing, but I compromise my ethics in the process. The only way I could see myself doing this is by:
Step 1: Pirate Game
Step 2: Get $40, put it in an envelope
Step 3: Write a longwinded letter about why EA is getting the money in such a fashion, and that they'll have their other $20 when they take off their assware so that I can play online with a legitimate copy, not having to worry about DRM crippling something in my computer.
Step 4: Send the envelope with no return address.
Currently, I'm too lazy to accomplish this task, and enough alternatives are out there that I've no interest in making the effort, but a need to control gun-wielding bears and tesla coils will eventually override my good sense. You can blab all you want about how it's their game and they have the right to distribute it how they want, but they don't. They hide behind both copyright law and DRM. If you are abusing the legal system so that it will protect your business interests while shitting all over your customers by treating the legitimate ones like criminals, you don't get to take the moral high ground.
My thoughts on this:
Every single game pirate on this forum will justify what they're doing because they "wouldn't buy it anyway, hate 'XYZ' company, are sending a message to the company that they don't like DRM, etc, etc...."
Meanwhile they'll totally gloss over the fact that:
A) It's stealing
B) It's illegal
C) If they won't buy it anyway, it doesn't give them the right to steal it
D) They are greedy hoarders that are pirating it because they don't want to buy it
E) The fact that they don't like it doesn't make it OK to copy
F) They are hurting the employees of companies when they go out of business because no one bought their game
G) They aren't "boycotting" anything if they are still PLAYING it.
H) They are lazy
I) The true gamers pay for their games.
J) Aren't convincing anyone when they say they are trying it to see if they want to buy it.
K) Will go on and on about how demos don't show them the real game
L) Are willfully trying to screw over a company and its employees just because they don't like them.
Every single game pirate on this forum will justify what they're doing because they "wouldn't buy it anyway, hate 'XYZ' company, are sending a message to the company that they don't like DRM, etc, etc...."
Meanwhile they'll totally gloss over the fact that:
A) It's stealing
B) It's illegal
C) If they won't buy it anyway, it doesn't give them the right to steal it
D) They are greedy hoarders that are pirating it because they don't want to buy it
E) The fact that they don't like it doesn't make it OK to copy
F) They are hurting the employees of companies when they go out of business because no one bought their game
G) They aren't "boycotting" anything if they are still PLAYING it.
H) They are lazy
I) The true gamers pay for their games.
J) Aren't convincing anyone when they say they are trying it to see if they want to buy it.
K) Will go on and on about how demos don't show them the real game
L) Are willfully trying to screw over a company and its employees just because they don't like them.
Bullshit. You could send their customer service department an email that you are not going to buy or play their game because you don't want the DRM on your machine. Believe me, there actually ARE customer service departments, and they do read feedback. By pirating the game you're justifying the DRM.Stickfigure said:
I hate stealing and botting/hacking in games along with farmers, it's all stealing!
If people want to try a game before buying it they should look out for a demo. However with the way EA and Nintendo have been treating their customers, I couldn't give 2 shits!
If people want to try a game before buying it they should look out for a demo. However with the way EA and Nintendo have been treating their customers, I couldn't give 2 shits!
I do it. Very rarely admittedly though. My view on pirating any material is the same. If you bought one item and are getting grossly ripped off and you know it and everybody mom's mom knows it ( TEXTBOOKS ), well, go ahead and pirate your next one. You've already paid for it. I see pirating as an equalizer against companies just stealing your hard earned cash. Of course how much your ripped off by is a pretty subjective thing unless you manage to find some actual figures or something so this argument starts falling apart on the individual to individual implementation level.
But you have to pay the price of admission first. If you just pirate because your a cheapskate or pirate $100 to every $10 you legitimately pay out, you're still a douche.
Right now, my ratio is probably around 5:1 - 6:1 legitimately paid for : pirated. In the last half year, I've bought 8 games and got a pirated copy of Spore from a friend.
But if as a result of pirating everybody looses a sense of ethics or fair market value ( e.g. the devs worked hard and need to feed their families too ), I'd rather torrenting never have been invented.
But you have to pay the price of admission first. If you just pirate because your a cheapskate or pirate $100 to every $10 you legitimately pay out, you're still a douche.
Right now, my ratio is probably around 5:1 - 6:1 legitimately paid for : pirated. In the last half year, I've bought 8 games and got a pirated copy of Spore from a friend.
But if as a result of pirating everybody looses a sense of ethics or fair market value ( e.g. the devs worked hard and need to feed their families too ), I'd rather torrenting never have been invented.
A) Depends on your definition of stealing. I'm not depriving someone else of the payment for their product if I was never planning to pay for it in the first place.Jimmyjames said:
B) Legality isn't a black/white thing. When do the rights of the consumer come into play with stuff like DRM or companies selling you products infested with spyware and malware? And what's "legal" isn't always what's "right."
C) Why? Why not? Just 'cause you say that doesn't make it true.
D) Not true. There are many reasons, and you can't make a blanket statement like that. Some people simply cannot afford to play the game any other way. Others are too poor to buy more than one or two new games at a time, and must make their purchases count.
E) The fact that you don't like pirating doesn't make it okay for you to gripe about the people who do it. See how well that logic works?
F) Serves the employees right for not making a game that people would like enough to buy. If the game's good, people WILL buy. Period.
G) Okay, fine, but at least they aren't lining the pockets of the companies who are doing whatever they disagree with.
H) How so? In what way is it less lazy to head over to Half.com and click "Buy?"
I) Flawed argument. "True" gamers? How does this have any bearing on anything? Go check out the wiki list of logical fallacies. This is a "cool kids do this" argument, and it fails hard.
J) Not convincing you, maybe, but it's still the truth in many cases. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's wrong.
K) So? Your point is? It's entirely true, anyway. Some games change a LOT in the time between the release of the demo and the release of the actual game.
L) Yes? And? What's wrong with this? It's the way of Capitalism. Why is it bad to want companies that you hate to fail in business? Why is it bad to not buy things from them? As stated before, good games WILL sell regardless of piracy. If they made enough good games, maybe they'd be in the black more, and wouldn't need to resort to blaming piracy.
If EA and the like listened to public outcry, they would stop using SecuROM after the first two lawsuits they received from groups of angry customers. Now I'm gonna say that your hilarious "write to the customer service department" suggestion ranks right up there with telling the Tibetans to ask China real nice-like to stop oppressing them.Jimmyjames said:
The fact is, EA will blame piracy no matter what I do. This way I maintain my honesty, most of my ethics, and they get their money, in a fashion.
And it's been shown that people who pirate one game are more likely to pay for the legit version of a sequel if they enjoyed the first game.-Seraph- said:I can count the amount of games I have pirated on one hand. The thing is though I ended up buying these games later anyways because I enjoyed them and became less skeptical about spending the money for them. To me pirating has always been a "full length demo"
I was going to blow this off, then I read your replies... and WOW. You pretty much proved my point.
Wow, this logic is bad... so, if you don't ever plan on buying a BMW, does that make it OK for you to steal one? How do you reason that pirating software isn't stealing?Samurai Goomba said:
No- by their very nature, laws are a black and white set of rules NOT open to interpretation. If they weren't society would not function. It's why there are court cases that set PRECEDENT. They further firm the rules. (now- the way a lawyer can manipulate the law is another issue) IF YOU DON'T LIKE DRM, DON'T BUY THE SOFTWARE!!!!!
It's a moral truth that it's NOT OK to steal. You should know better. If you get your car ripped off, how would you respond if the thief said, "well, it's a shitty car so I thought it would be OK to steal it."
If a person can't afford it, guess what... THEY CAN'T HAVE IT. That's the problem- this "entitled" attitude. Why should you be able to have something that you can't afford to buy? Such a typical attitude. I'd personally really like to live in a house instead of an apartment, but that doesn't mean I have the RIGHT to a house.
No, you're wrong. That's a circular argument, and I have the moral imperative. Technically you lose. I disapprove of people that are doing something illegal. Therefore I win. Someone that thinks otherwise has the invalid viewpoint.
No... because according to your own logic, piracy isn't hurting anyone. So why should someone feel "obliged" to buy it if they can just download it free? Your own viewpoint will hurt a company even if the game is good.
They can avoid "lining the pockets of the companies who are doing whatever they disagree with" by NOT BUYING THE GAME. Doesn't mean they can rip it off.
Uhhhhh... wow, that doesn't even make sense. If they're BUIYING it, they aren't being LAZY, are they? Maybe I should swap "BEING LAZY" for "BEING A DOUCHEBAG".
You're right. That's the most subjective and fallacious of my statements. You win that round. But I would argue that the fans that are supporting their hobby by buying the games they play are bigger fans that those that are not.
OK, I'll buy that, although you're interpreting that statement rather literally. I'll restate it, then. I personally have NEVER known anyone that has bought a game AFTER they pirated it. Therefore, I do not believe people when they say they pirate it to see if they will purchase it later.
If you want to argue it that way- there are many, MANY games where the demo allows a player a VERY generous chunk of the game (Crysis and Left4Dead, for example) How much of a game do you need to see before you know you want to purchase it? If you're going to pirate a game instead of downloading a demo, won't you ruin the play value if you play too much?
It's bad not to buy things from them WHEN YOU STEAL IT INSTEAD. And just because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD, doesn't give you the right to play it WITHOUT PAYING. Does the same logic work with a movie theater? You should definitely walk up to the ticket-taker and tell them, "I don't like Warner Brothers, but I'm going to walk in to their movie anyway". See how far you get. What's the difference?
