How do you reason with religious people?

[nunqual]

I don't *reason* with religious people, I respect them. They have the right to believe whatever they want to believe, even if I disagree personally. By saying *reason* you make it seem like they're a crazy sect of the population who could kill at any moment.

 

[Burs]

I treat Religous Evangelists like I treat militant atheists, calmly and tell that their way is not the only path. like others said the WBC might worship the holy trinity but if they fail to treat anyone and everyone with dignity they do not follow chirst. If Fred Phelps or anyone else believes they know the way of (add deity name here) then they are either a fool or mad; People have trouble understanding each other yet alone a Omnipresent Creator.

 

[Ninonybox_v1legacy]

I may be a Christian...but me and the WBC do not share the same god....as for your friend...there is no reasoning with them.

 

[Crazy_Dude]

I understand why they believe in a greater being watching over us and I respect their decision for choosing their religion.

I myself am an Athiest and have tried to argue multiple times with Religious classmates and my grandparents. I have however given up on that. Neither of the sides is right or wrong and and no one will change their opinions about the subject.

Even after countless argueing I was still convinced that Evolution created mankind of today and not some god.

My relgious friends even after countless argueing still are convinced that god created mankind and that Evolution is just a theory.

However we did come up with an intresting theory. Why cant both coexist? For all we know God could have created the universe as we know it. And then evolution could have run is course to create live in the universe.

 

[TheGuiggleMonster]

If someone has been indoctrinated too far with no open mind and lacks the ability to evaluate evidence and reason for themself, you can't disuade them. Your friend seems like one of these people. Of course there are some very simple arguments that completely defy the concept of an omniscient omnipotent God who created everything and if you learn all of these arguments off by heart you should be able to shut him up for a while.

This doesn't just apply for religion. I once had an argument somewhat similar to yours with a guy who runs a small charity. I was asking him why he chooses to do things as unefficiently as possible but he responded by saying that I am evil for prioritising one group of people over another. This was basically how it went on and I got no clear answer. He actually turned out to be an incredibly rude person.

 

[YukoValis]

hmm, I might have phrased it wrong. I didn't want to reason to my point of view really, just maybe one with a lot less of theirs.. I respect almost all religions, but much less of the people who get swept up in them.

 

[Arizona Kyle]

Im babtist *flame shield*

i dont like what alot of churches are doing expecialy WBC because they believe that they are the will of god and all this other stuff

Religion isnt a bad thing and there are alot of reasonable people like my friends and i that do look at all of what you all have been saying

as long as the church stays in its place everything would be fine the problem is like WBC the church has human greed and ego causing them to go off the path of what god wants and on to the path of what they want

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

That's easy. He is able but not willing. Imagine this: You decide to tell a lie.

"Yeah honey, that looks great," you try to say. Unfortunately, the MIGHTY HAND OF GOD reaches from the sky and knocks you out before the words leave your lips.

You can't bring reason into discussions of religion. Religion, by definition, is something outside or contrary to reason. If there was scientific basis to it, it's science, not religion. If there isn't, or if you choose to ignore it, it's a matter of faith.

Therefore, attempts to appeal to reason can't work, you have to appeal to faith, or nothing at all.

This is absolutely true. However, in this case the argument isn't:

Religion is wrong.
The WBC is religious.
Therfore, the WBC is wrong.

The argument SHOULD be:

The bible says "Don't judge people. Leave it to God."
The WBC judges people and doesn't leave it to God.
Therefore, the WBC is wrong.

I find this to be a very valid argument

 

[The Funslinger]

I tell them keep your views to yourself and i won't attempt to show you mine other than that i prefer to avoid them which being in britain is easy cause i barely ever meet religious people here... seriously where are they all

They all had children, and we, those offspring then thought: "you know what? Fuck this. I'm not giving my sunday and the funnest parts of my life up for some completely illogical guy in the sky."

Not to knock religion, as I find it interesting. I'm just saying that's why there's so many Atheists in Britain at the moment (myself included, but I hate the reputation the uber-militant just-as-bad-as-stubborn-religious-nuts ones give us.)

 

[GodofCider]

Firstly, this should be in Religion and Politics.

Secondly, would the Escapist PLEASE, for the love of all that is good, stop lumping all religious people in with their radical fanatics? Over 90% of America is religious, and within that group, a good three-quarters of them just live their lives like any other regular person in the country. You live with them, you go to work and/or school with them, you play games with them. The great majority of us are completely reasonable people, and you know it. If your friend is a WBC supporter, that's just your friend's opinion. The WBC is its own extremist entity within Christianity that has no influence over any other Christian church.

On a related note, within religious "grouping", if you will, why are so many people so quick to separate moderate Islam from its extremist elements, yet so happy to judge Christianity by its extremist elements without batting an eye? I'm not usually this confrontational about it, but I've gotta say, hypocritical much?

Well there is a rather good reason. Simply running with your rough percentages and quantities given, you'll find that the US has something like 70 million 'minority'; of which they don't "just live their lives like any other regular person in the country."

Seventy Million, knock on your door, join our cult or burn in hell, harass you 'small' percentage of the whole.

Seventy Million.

 

[Windcaler]

This doesnt look like its about reasoning with a person who has faith. It looks like its a problem between the OP and his friend. From what he posted I think his friends outburst was building up for a long time and finally hit the breaking point. Anyway OP my suggestion would be give it a few days, then bring a peace offering by his place so you can sit down and talk it out. I recomend doughnuts for the peace offering *nods sagely*

 

[spartandude]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

-Athiests, winning since 33 A.D

i also love how his name is EPICurus

 

[ryanxm]

does he preach out of the bible at school? if so bring a koran and do the same

 

[Aulleas123]

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

People still use IM?

Just kidding, in reading the original post it seems that your friend is just not good at arguing. We all have friends like that, people who don't know how to argue about the topics they believe and get annoyed at people who disagree with them. It's kinda sad but there's really no way to reason with them because they'll base their arguments on authority and anecdotal evidence rather than facts or logic.

Plus, it's really hard to have an intelligent argument over IM, it usually turns to insults and degradations pretty quickly.

Oh, and for the record, I am a practicing Christian (...well Catholic, same sort I suppose) and I am much more offended by the WBC than any of the insults to Christianity featured on the internet.

 

[Merkavar]

i try not to talk religion with people. it just cuases to many issues

 

[Vrach]

Mandatory House quote:
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people.......... otherwise there would be no religious people" ^^

OT: Your friend's simply an idiot. One falls to insults and straying off topic when they have no argument to back up what they said. I don't think it's necessarily tied to him being religious though.

 

[Willis_D]

I am religious, and your friend sounds retarded. Like, I never bring my religion into debates, and never pus my vies onto others.

There are always going to be dickheads, religious or not, that try shove their views onto others or use them to support their point in an argument. And how should you deal with dickheads? Unless they have other redeeming qualities, just stop being friends with them. Either they'll cop on or they'll keep their opinions. Doesn't really matter either way, just don't let it effect your life.


Also, this:

-
Oh, and for the record, I am a practicing Christian (...well Catholic, same sort I suppose) and I am much more offended by the WBC than any of the insults to Christianity featured on the internet.

 

[Palademon]

Aslong as they don't act like God is their personal army for sending everyone they don't like to Hell, or they say " isn't true", I don't mind.

Otherwise I'll just pick apart their arguments using quotes form their own holy text.

 

[Anchupom]

One of my friends is a very strong christian. Nothing wrong with that.
It's just his reasoning behind god that I have an issue with.
We have this conversation about once every 2 or 3 weeks:[small]

Me: I still don't understand it. How can you spend your life dedicated to what is little more than a possiblity of redemption from a character that could quite easily be as fictional as Superman?
Him: Well Jesus's life has been written down in the bible, and he said that he was the son of God, so he must be real.
Me: Hardly. I can claim to be capable of turining the planet up-side down and get someone else to write a book about me doing it, and in a few thousand years, people might believe that. Doesn't mean it HAPPENED.
Him: Well can you prove there isn't a God?
Me: No.
Him: Then there must be.
Me: Can you prove that Superman was just a fictional character?
Him: No. But he was.
Me: Can't prove it, Superman must have existed at some point then.[/small]

Always the same, though I vary the superhero. The way I look at it, I can have this discussion another couple of thousand times without using the same character twice.

 

[Caliostro]

How do you start a fire under water?

You don't.

You don't reason with religious people because religion itself is based on irrationality. Faith is the exact polar opposite of reason and logic, and, in fact, only exists when both of the aforementioned don't. That's the actual definition of faith. To believe in the irrational and illogical.

You don't "have faith" that water is wet. You know it is. You might have faith that yellow flying pigs exist, because you have no logical reason to believe they do.

So, how do you reason with something that only exists in the very vacuum of logic and reason?

You don't.