How do you think game companies should combat piracy
- Thread starter G-Force
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the best way to combat piracy is to make games with a really fun multiplayer aspect hardwired through Steam or some other closed System. Are there ways around that? yes. But it's an extra hoop that PIRATES have to jump through, that regular consumers don't. Or update the game very frequently, so frequently that it becomes a hassle keeping your cracks uptodate and it just becomes easier just to buy the game and let it update itself.
Basically, you need to find ways that provide a BENEFIT to a legitimate customer, preferably while also causing a hassle for pirates.
All while keeping prices as low as possible.
Basically, you need to find ways that provide a BENEFIT to a legitimate customer, preferably while also causing a hassle for pirates.
All while keeping prices as low as possible.
Great games.
No, no, hear me out.
This won't get rid of piracy at all, but it will cut down on it. If I REALLY like a game, like say Zelda, or Metroid, or Fallout, I want to actually buy them. I want to support the developers. I want them to make more games, so I become a consumer instead of pirating/downloading pirated games. So, make games people love and most (decent) people will pay willingly to support the creation of more of the awesome.
No, no, hear me out.
This won't get rid of piracy at all, but it will cut down on it. If I REALLY like a game, like say Zelda, or Metroid, or Fallout, I want to actually buy them. I want to support the developers. I want them to make more games, so I become a consumer instead of pirating/downloading pirated games. So, make games people love and most (decent) people will pay willingly to support the creation of more of the awesome.
Do you know why the subtle sabotaging works? Because it is not obvious. And THAT is how you defeat the crackers.RatRace123 said:
See regular DRM already does what you suggest: completely destroys the game meaning it absolutely will not launch.
You have to get inside the mind of a hacker who as got a hold of the code of a legitimate game copy. They WILL crack it, one way or another, they will keep probing and manipulating the code till it does AS EXPECTED.
So when the code is hacked enough that the game launches and loads fine without trying to delete files or unleash viruses, THEN the cracker stops and uploads that cracked file to the internet.
But the subtle DRM, that is how you trick the pirate.
See the pirate only has so much time, they have enough time to crack it till the game appears to run fine. But to catch the really subtle things like a character taking a slightly shorter jump at certain point, that requires testing in the level of bug checking. This is a huge problem for crackers as:
(1) they must play through the entire game several times to catch these "bugs"
(2)it is actually MUCH harder to fix a subtle bug than than a huge obvious bugs or "have the game delete every file on the pirate's computer"
See to bug fix you really need the source code that is top secret and never released to the public, at least not until 4-6 years after release. And actually pinning it down is so hard, after the cracker has played through the game and is able to replicate the sabotaging bug, trying to link that back into the code is so freaking hard.
crackers don't have the time or energy to effectively do QA testing when the bugs are:
-deliberately hidden
-you have zero budget
-you don't have the source code to help fix it
And the worst part is you don't know if you are fixing an intentional bug or simply a bug that the developers missed themselves!
This is where the developers have the advantage over pirates. The very expensive process of Quality-Assurance testing for the little-things.
And why is it good for the bugs to be subtle? So that the game is put on torrent sites WITHOUT the bugs being detected then the reputation goes around only once thousands of pirates try to play the game and it fails, then it is too late to go back. People seed when the game launches, but they can't unseed.
But you know what I'd add to this? Include a mechanism in the game of transferring your saves from the pirated version to the legit version, so the users who pirate are given an 11th hour reprieve and can continue playing through the game IF THEY THEN BUY IT!
You missed the whole point of what I said. Not selling digital copies isn't designed to stop the pirates from making a copy, it's designed so that it's easier to spot a pirated copy and therefore easier to enforce. any copy without a disk is a pirated copy, so any downloadable copy is pirated.Treblaine said:
Unfortunately for you those games are owned by Nintendo who are NOT going to be decent enough to just release those games everywhere, they will hold them hostage to expand their business.SixWingedAsura said:
For example, 3DS is a pretty lame platform with very few note-worthy games.
But they are re-releasing classics like Ocarina of Time on the system.
This is bank for them as people buy the system and the game now Nintendo hack forced you to invest in THEIR Eco-system where they take a cut of EVERY game sold for their platform.
That's why Super Metroid will never be released on PC, that's just one game sale. But put it on a Nintendo console, then they have to buy a console (making a tidy hardware profit) and likely much more income as you justify the expense of buying a Nintendo platform.
Valve kinda does the same with Steam, but Steam cost me nothing to download and I can easily use other competing services like Origin or GoG.com
Sorry I didn't mean those games specifically. I was just using them as examples of games I personally think are great.Treblaine said:
I don't see how that helps, everything on Pirate bay is pirated and no one can stop it. Same with all the millions of other places you can illegally download pirated content. And they are of course without a disc whether they were originally released on a disc or not.spartan231490 said:
On the internet, the pirated copies have ALWAYS been easy to spot. It is stopping them that is the problem.
or do you mean looking on people's systems? Sorry but that is called ILLEGAL HACKING for companies to spy on random peoples computers with a far worse penalty than piracy. Only law enforcement with probable cause and a judge appointed search/wire-tap warrant can spy on peoples' computers without authorised access.
But all this is a luddite solution, refusing to accept how times are a changing.
Download IS the future, look at how successful Steam and Apple App Store are? Also XBLA and PSN. GoG.com, Minecraft, etc.
At 'bricks-&-mortar' retail stores there are so many cost overheads, so many middle men wanting a cut, so inflexible and slow to respond. Digital sales developers without publishers can control the entire verticality of selling their wares and be dynamic and in the case of Minecraft take 100% of the earnings.
Here is what will blow your mind, Mojang is making as much PER SALE of Minecraft as Rockstar makes per sale of Red dead Redemption. See because Red-Dead is a boxed product sold at retail on a console that charges a licensing fee Rockstar only actually gets about $17 out of the $60 retail price! Not to mention how they have to spend MILLIONS of dollars just to advertise in the retail market while online downloads you can float without any huge marketing costs.
Imagine if Rockstar could have sold RDR like Minecraft. It would have cost just $20, wouldn't need any advertising, you could be a google search away from their website where you could buy it directly and they get 100% of the money. They'd probably have make more money overall.
Rockstar and Gamers would LOVE that, but Microsoft would HAET it, so would Retail Stores as they are do-nothing middle men who are denied their cut.
How will no LAN stop people? No LAN stops me from wanting the game, legit or not.Dyme said:
OT: Do subtle DRM by hiding bugs that break the guy (as some guy mentioned earlier) and give incentives to buy the game like a poster or a shirt.
He doesn't USE A KEY. He RUNS the game same as me, because we have identical data.TypeSD said:
You could try tying that copy ON-SPOT, with your hardware or something else, but
a) it will still be crack-able
b) you're coming up with very aggressive DRM at this point
And in case you're talking about multiplayer part, that has already been done with server authentication.
Lol, so what if it's aggressive? it would work. With constant server pings to ensure that the keys are only being used once, you wouldn't be able to crack it.Nesco Nomen said:
And seriously, why not just release a fake torrent with a shitload of malware in it? Or start dishing out lawsuits?
To tackle the first sentence, I was able to get my parents to buy me games for my birthday or Christmas, or save my allowance. If those options aren't available to a child then there is no sale to be made and no revenue lost should they download it.TypeSD said:
but for people in general who won't pay, if those types of people are pirating games then why even bother trying to prevent them from doing it. If they won't buy the game anyway, even if they could, then stopping them from downloading it for free will not lead to a sale. It will lead to a cost for the developer though in implementing DRM which has never been successful in preventing piracy and which often annoys paying customers, sometimes to the point that they won't buy their next game. Ubisoft essentially lost all of my future business when they implemented their always online DRM for AC2. I only bought it when it seemed they were backtracking on that and removed it from AC: Brotherhood, but now they're calling it a success and implementing it in more games, so I'm back to not supporting them again on any platform.
But some people don't pirate because they want everything for free. Some download a game because there is no demo available, or because renting is fairly expensive and they want to try something before they fork over any money. Some people who download are more than happy to support those games that they think are worth supporting. So rather than drive customers away with invasive DRM that punishes them for actually paying for their game instead of downloading a superior copy for free, simply give them a great game that's worth buying. Or include something extra for purchasing it. One of the things I love about the Atlus games I've bought is getting the soundtrack and sometimes an art book included. These things aren't prohibitively expensive to produce and include and really help to up the perceived value for the consumer.
But arguing that some people will never pay ever so we need to make it harder for them to download the game for free is silly reasoning. It's never stopped anyone, it costs developers money and it pisses off paying customers.
No better way than the VALVe way.Make an awesome class-based multiplayer game that you potentially COULD get to play multiplayer for free,but would be kinda hard and you wouldn't get any of the customization items anyway;then make the game free-to-play,and still keep the customization items locked for free accounts.But whatever you do,don't use the "you need a serial and internet connection(for SP) and it has to be connected to the developer's website etc" way,AKA the Ubisoft way.I know that Assassin's Creed II is my favorite game ever and I got it pirated,but I don't feel like buying it to give Ubisoft more money.But I would buy Team Fortress 2,or Portal 2 or Half-Life 2 because they were made by a small company who isn't moneyhungry and doesn't really care about piracy.I know a lot of people who pirated VALVe's games,completed them,then bought them and played them again because they were so good and they felt like they needed to be grateful.So there you go.
They should hold public executions of pirates to send a message. Jk. Jk.
I think if anything they should give up. No matter what they do it still happens. Nothing will change that, not more stringent laws, not DRMs, not pwetty pwease cease and desist letters, some people will go through hell just to get some free stuff.
(See: "Blah Blah You Won a Free_____" Ad's all over the internet.)
I think if anything they should give up. No matter what they do it still happens. Nothing will change that, not more stringent laws, not DRMs, not pwetty pwease cease and desist letters, some people will go through hell just to get some free stuff.
(See: "Blah Blah You Won a Free_____" Ad's all over the internet.)
Flour raises a good point. It's just so easy to pirate a game, even though it is wrong. Games that use locks on certain aspect if you don't buy them new take the piss. If you buy something new, you should be rewarded, not feel like you need to. Including a code to unlock a game feature/mode is wrong. Giving a code for unlocking a piece of DLC is better but still offering it as being able to be bought on the platform's store also helps the developer whilst not punishing those "evil people who buy used!".
Stop making them, simples. Then blame the pirates and claim you weren't making enough money to make more games.
