How every U.S. state can achieve 100% renewable energy by 2050

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secretkeeper12

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We all know the importance of renewable energy. With oil reserves in the possession of terrorists like ISIS or regimes like Saudi Arabia, as well as the threat of climate change, clean energy independence is a moral must. Now, thanks to the Solutions Project, we have a plan for making this happen.

Every state has its energy capabilities for solar, wind, hydroelectricity, and geothermal assessed through 10 categories. For example, New York State is expected to get 35.8% of its energy from photovoltaic solar plants, and 40% from coastal wind projects. The detailed report [http://thesolutionsproject.org/infographic/#ny] claims this change will save 3,137 lives and $5,789 per person. This may be optimistic, but even if the truth were half that it'd still make a good investmrnt.

Every state has its own analysis like this. If you live in the U.S., I highly recommend you see what industries are projected to rise in your state's future.

Link to the Solutions Project [http://thesolutionsproject.org/]
 

Thaluikhain

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No mention of magic? 100% by 2050 is not feasible.

Now, a lesser, but still substantial and worthwhile amount could well be. As well as the obvious reasons given, relying on imports means you are relying on global trade not being disrupted.
 

secretkeeper12

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thaluikhain said:
No mention of magic? 100% by 2050 is not feasible.

Now, a lesser, but still substantial and worthwhile amount could well be. As well as the obvious reasons given, relying on imports means you are relying on global trade not being disrupted.
Yeah, we'd need a nation of Al Gores and Carl Sagans to make this plan actually work. Still, this study proves it's entirely possible.

Perhaps if we pursued nuclear energy along with renewables, we could at least achieve energy independence in the next 3 1/2 decades. That would be preferable to the current set-up, financing all sorts of immoral government and business practices. Plus there's the fact that many solar and wind parts require the use of petroleum to create, making it all the more urgent we make them now.
 

Gengisgame

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thaluikhain said:
No mention of magic? 100% by 2050 is not feasible.

Now, a lesser, but still substantial and worthwhile amount could well be. As well as the obvious reasons given, relying on imports means you are relying on global trade not being disrupted.
Welllllll not feasible by moral means, a massive population cull would make it feasible.
 

Albino Boo

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secretkeeper12 said:
Yeah, we'd need a nation of Al Gores and Carl Sagans to make this plan actually work. Still, this study proves it's entirely possible.

Perhaps if we pursued nuclear energy along with renewables, we could at least achieve energy independence in the next 3 1/2 decades. That would be preferable to the current set-up, financing all sorts of immoral government and business practices. Plus there's the fact that many solar and wind parts require the use of petroleum to create, making it all the more urgent we make them now.
Err you are clearly not aware that the the main source for the minerals that are used to make solar cells is China. That well know freedom loving democracy that definitely does not shoot people down in the street for want to vote about who is in government. No country has all the natural resources required to run a modern economy within its borders. Last point due to fracking the US will be net exporter of oil and gas by 2019.
 

Ryotknife

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35% solar in NYS?

calling bullshit. We get like one month of sunlight. From mid October to April, dont expect to see the sky ever again. Wind, sure. We are building quite a few of those.

As for nuclear hahahahahaha good luck. Nuclear is a dirty word now. The last nuclear power plant was built almost 30 years ago. In fact we will see the exact opposite as the public pushes to close those power plants because the public tends to think of them as a nuke waiting to go off.

Even building new hydro dams is an uphill battle as environmentalists will screech at the top of their lungs to prevent them from being built.

Solar is not very viable right now as it takes on average 20-30 years to get your investment back. There are areas in the US that due to its weather makes solar viable, but they are the exception rather than the rule. 10-20 years down the line it might be a different story with lowered costs or increased efficiency.

As of right now, the only green power sources in the US that are both economically and politically viable is wind, which the US is actually pushing pretty hard right now. It may not be common knowledge, but the US has plans for wind to generate 20% of its overall electricity by 2030, and at the rate wind energy is increasing in the US, it seems like an easily viable goal.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Solar is inefficient, mostly because the best solar panels can't make the best of the sunlight they do catch, even amorphous solar panels are only 25% percent efficient. You'd need to make the incentive for home owners to put them on their homes and feed excess energy into the grid. With the stat of American power companies and the way they work, fat chance of that. Solar farms, even with solar thermal collection towers take up far more land space than they deserve for the output they have. Not to mention that much of North America isn't as sunny as people like to believe it is, especially concerning the Northern states and mountainous areas. The deserts are alright, but most places get just enough sun to make solar worthwhile only on a personal use basis.

Wind... Even the biggest wind farms only put out a tiny spark compared to most modest hydroelectric dams, again they're a massively inefficient use of land space for the power they generate. Also due to the number of moving parts, per-turbine, they're massive maintenance hogs on an individual basis, meaning wind farms are under constant maintenance, making them expensive. Wind turbines increase the cost of electricity when power companies try to focus on wind farms, this adversely effects the poorer populations served by them. But all that aside environmentalists who bellow about climate change caused by man, which the caused by man part is a bold faced lie in my mind[footnote]We have a huge geological record that shows climate change happens naturally and often at rates far more rapid than we're seeing.[/footnote], are the same people who want to ban wind turbines. This is because wind turbines are known for being a hazard to birds, especially the likes of bald eagles. Then you have the rich who cry at length about "man caused" climate change, but they won't let wind turbines be set up because they own the beach houses that are near ideal coastal locations, but they don't want to actually see wind turbines. Even if it saves the planets, freaking hypocrites.

Hydroelectric dams have the issue of environmentalists hating them to the point where it's nearly impossible to build new dams, this despite their durability, reliability, and massive generating capacity. Which is a shame because they could reduce our dependence on coal and petroleum by a massive amount. They do have one down side, their requirement of a significant source of flowing water. We just don't have enough rivers, creeks, and the like that to cover all of our power demands and the expansion of power production that we need. At least not by them selves.

Tidal power generation is a fantastic idea that generates a goodly amount of power. The down sides are that they're complicate, need to be watched, require a decent amount of maintenance to keep them working, and said maintenance is difficult due to the capturing devices being undersea. Along with that being undersea means sea life just loves to latch on to them, jamming them up with barnacles and coral. They also present a hazard to sea life, which is something animal rights activists and environmentalists will use against them in the long run.

Next up: Geothermal, this stuff is great, there are an abundance of sites where it can be done, even if the areas are fairly localized. They still require lots of attention be paid to them though, mineral build up reduces their efficiency over time, meaning the heat collectors eventually need to be replaced. That aside there is the potential of them becoming objectionable because they require pretty complicated construction projects, which "ruin the scenery", a complaint environmentalists and land preservation types will exploit.

Thermonuclear fission generation is a good one, produces lots of power, France in fact gets about 75% of it's electrical power from nuclear fission. The most obvious issue is that it's a complicated and expensive way of boiling water just to spin turbines to generate electricity. Also there is public opinion, with the likes of Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Three-Mile Island[footnote]Three-Mile island is a stupid one, it was a non-incident where they had to release a bit of radioactive steam that hurt no one. *sigh* People are idiots.[/footnote]. This is a major problem, environmentalists who detest any power generation get a strong argument with the very few catastrophes from nuclear power. Totally in spite of it's actual relative safety compared to traditional and newer renewable sources of power generation. Nuclear still has an image problem in the eyes of the public, this allows power companies who want to maximize profits and environmentalists who want to stop development an excuse not to use it. An excuse to regulate the market to a point where it's untenable to make new reactors to help power the country.

There is one final possibility, but it needs funding to complete research and start maturing the technology. This solution is contained nuclear fusion power, but for it to happen we need to focus on actually making sustained fusion possible, and collecting the energy it puts out. It can be done, but no one to puts in the investment to get the ball rolling. But this is a cheap form of energy, power companies don't want it to happen because they don't see a huge profit margin in it. Environmentalists I'm sure will also find something about this to complain about too and attempt to drown the baby before it can even walk, sadly...

We do have a far larger issue here in the United States is the state of our power grids. Texas has a fantastic grid all to it self, but the grids in the western and eastern sides of the country? Those decrepit inefficient dinosaurs, they loose way too much power, can't handle the strain we already put on them, and are unable to handle our further growth... They're a large chunk of the problem all by themselves. The biggest problem is no one wants to do more than the bare minimum required to keep them limping along. We're looking at a billion dollar, or more project to update them and rebuild them to standards we can cover our current needs and future growth with. There is the biggest problem of all, no one wants to cover the costs of full overhaul and updating, not the power companies and not the federal government. All the alternative renewable power the world can support won't be worth dick if we continue to try to limp along with a aged power grid that has one foot in the grave...

So if we update and rejuvenate the grid then put in a combination of all of the alternatives I've mentioned, we might, just maybe, be able to get fully sustainable renewable power by 2050... The problem is I don't see any of that happening at all. On the business side, the power companies seem just completely content to kick the can down the road on the grid and renewable. At the same time efficiency on most alternative renewable sources, is pitiful for the resources they require to run and the land space they take. Then you have the environmentalist concerns, which are by far the largest roadblock, they'll continue dumping regulation on the problem for the foreseeable future, making power more expensive and expansion basically impossible. Looking at things as they are, we won't be 100% renewable by 2050, we'll be lucky if we're half way there by 2150 at the rate we're going.
 

Zontar

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Thermonuclear fission generation is a good one, produces lots of power, France in fact gets about 75% of it's electrical power from nuclear fission.
Using modern technology, this is really the only realistic means of having non-polluting power generation power the US. Maybe if we crack nuclear fusion then things will change, but until then nuclear fission is the only realistic option, as well as the only cost effective one.

I mean hell, sure it's expensive to make a nuclear power plant, but its output makes the price of energy per kilowatt-hour worth the expense.
 

Zontar

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Ryotknife said:
As for nuclear hahahahahaha good luck. Nuclear is a dirty word now. The last nuclear power plant was built almost 30 years ago. In fact we will see the exact opposite as the public pushes to close those power plants because the public tends to think of them as a nuke waiting to go off.
Which is too bad, since this ignorance stemming from a failure in the American education system means it'll take a hard push to get the only realistic option for getting off fossil fuel dependence.
 

Hero in a half shell

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The main issue with renewable energy is that it is renewable (meaning it comes from a non-exhaustive source) but that does not mean that it is environmentally friendly. It just means that we won't end up digging it all out of the earth.

Solar power (and wind power to a lesser extent) rely on a dozen rare earth minerals, which someone mentioned, are all sourced in China. Not just because China is the cheapest at producing them, but because by a weird twist of fate pretty much the only place these minerals occur on earth is in a remote mountain range deep inside China [http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jan/27/rare-minerals-global-renewables-industry]. A mountain range that the Chinese are currently leveling with what borders on religious fervor because of the insatiable demands in the West for these incredibly rare minerals (the main use of the minerals is ironically solar panels, wind turbines, energy efficient lightbulbs and electric cars.) - Again, renewable does not mean environmentally friendly, and if the key ingredients of our renewables are monopolised by China technically they can be argued to not be renewable, since their continued production relies on those minerals coming out of the ground maybe they have a lot in common with coal and oil after all.

Solar and wind also have the issue of not being reliable sources of energy, with solar being completely useless at night (when everyone turns their lights on!) and wind only working when the wind blows, which in Northern Ireland for example is about 66% of the time (a very windy country due to it's main weather system being the Gulf Stream - which is pretty much a big wind) Unfortunately this makes it very difficult for wind or solar to contribute to the base load (the energy base that is required that day for the entire country to run, which will actually reduce the amount that other non renewable energy plants have to burn in order to make sure the country doesn't run out of energy).

Dealing with wind in particular, in practice on any given day all the wind farms will only be able to guarantee around 66% maximum of the total supposed wind output of a country. The Electricity System Operator will instantly reduce this amount by another 10% or so to ensure that the wind companies actually do meet their targets, so on any given day your wind output will be about half of what the media sources actually say - and as I said, that is in Northern Ireland, which is a very windy country. I don't know how exactly solar is handled, but I'd imagine it would be fairly similar.

Hydro is fantastic for reliable energy, but causes absolute devastation to river wildlife, which we should really be getting more concerned about since the most recent figures show that globally freshwater animal population has fallen by 76% since 1974 [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29418983], and the huge numbers of dams being built on some of the most important rivers for migratory fish/other animals is one of the primary reasons. Hydroelectric, while excellent for energy, is absolutely not environmentally friendly either.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Zontar said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Thermonuclear fission generation is a good one, produces lots of power, France in fact gets about 75% of it's electrical power from nuclear fission.
Using modern technology, this is really the only realistic means of having non-polluting power generation power the US. Maybe if we crack nuclear fusion then things will change, but until then nuclear fission is the only realistic option, as well as the only cost effective one.

I mean hell, sure it's expensive to make a nuclear power plant, but its output makes the price of energy per kilowatt-hour worth the expense.
It's not really cost effective, it's a really expensive way to boil water, not for the fuel mind you, but the amount of specially trained technicians required to run the plant, and the complicated nature of the plants... Also there is the issue of spent fuel, storing spent fuel rods is expensive and shipping them to containment sites is REALLY complicated and expensive. Have you seen the shipping containers they make for spent uranium fuel rods? Good god.

But nuclear fission plants have a huge image problem, like I said. After Three-Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, and the like... The American public is terrified of nuclear power plants, even in spite of their actual safety record which beats the hell out of every other type of large scale power generation. Really the fear of nuclear power is proof of how powerful misinformation campaigns actually are.
 

Ryotknife

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Zontar said:
Ryotknife said:
As for nuclear hahahahahaha good luck. Nuclear is a dirty word now. The last nuclear power plant was built almost 30 years ago. In fact we will see the exact opposite as the public pushes to close those power plants because the public tends to think of them as a nuke waiting to go off.
Which is too bad, since this ignorance stemming from a failure in the American education system means it'll take a hard push to get the only realistic option for getting off fossil fuel dependence.
Anecedotal experience here, but i find that the people who are afraid of nuclear power (that are not environmentalists) tend to be the baby boomers. So it might be more of a relic of the Cold War when the threat of a nuclear apocalypse was drilled into their brains rather than the failure of the current education system (not that the current education system isnt failing, but i dont think they deserve the rap for this one)

im a huge supporter of nuclear power, but that battle was lost a long time ago.
 

Ryotknife

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Zontar said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Thermonuclear fission generation is a good one, produces lots of power, France in fact gets about 75% of it's electrical power from nuclear fission.
Using modern technology, this is really the only realistic means of having non-polluting power generation power the US. Maybe if we crack nuclear fusion then things will change, but until then nuclear fission is the only realistic option, as well as the only cost effective one.

I mean hell, sure it's expensive to make a nuclear power plant, but its output makes the price of energy per kilowatt-hour worth the expense.
It's not really cost effective, it's a really expensive way to boil water, not for the fuel mind you, but the amount of specially trained technicians required to run the plant, and the complicated nature of the plants... Also there is the issue of spent fuel, storing spent fuel rods is expensive and shipping them to containment sites is REALLY complicated and expensive. Have you seen the shipping containers they make for spent uranium fuel rods? Good god.

But nuclear fission plants have a huge image problem, like I said. After Three-Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, and the like... The American public is terrified of nuclear power plants, even in spite of their actual safety record which beats the hell out of every other type of large scale power generation. Really the fear of nuclear power is proof of how powerful misinformation campaigns actually are.
That is surprising, as in the northeast it is typically the nuclear power plants that produce the second cheapest electricity after hydro. Coal plants tend to be expensive, at least in my experience.
 

NoPants2win

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I read an interesting article recently that detailed an add-on module that would allow conventional power plants to use solar power to decrease their fuel use by between half and a third by adding a solar pre heater. It makes use of existing power plant infrastructure and doesn't harm grid stability. It doesn't save the world by itself but it would be hugely helpful. Still we probably won't build any. We'll probably just keep spending huge amounts of money to try to pump high pressure co2 into the ground.


It's in nature if anyone wants to read it.
 

Something Amyss

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thaluikhain said:
No mention of magic? 100% by 2050 is not feasible.
God, you're always on about magic. You can't just wizard your problems away, man!

Ryotknife said:
35% solar in NYS?

calling bullshit. We get like one month of sunlight. From mid October to April, dont expect to see the sky ever again.
You get more sun than Germany, which is pushing for a similar number by 2020. 30 years ahead.

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Really the fear of nuclear power is proof of how powerful misinformation campaigns actually are.
No, the fear of nuclear power has root in human pattern bias. Ironically, you already have a better example of misinformation in action.
 

Zontar

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Something Amyss said:
Ryotknife said:
35% solar in NYS?

calling bullshit. We get like one month of sunlight. From mid October to April, dont expect to see the sky ever again.
You get more sun than Germany, which is pushing for a similar number by 2020. 30 years ahead.
Keep in mind that's based on Germany, which has a much lower population density then New York State, having enough power generated by solar to reach 50% of consumption for about 5 minutes during the lowest power use during the day, which also coincided with the time power generation from solar is at its highest.

Plus it doesn't take away from the fact that nuclear would be cheaper, safer, more environmentally friendly and more cost effective to use as the alternative, all while taking up less space to boot.
 

TechNoFear

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Zontar said:
Plus it doesn't take away from the fact that nuclear would be cheaper, safer, more environmentally friendly and more cost effective to use as the alternative, all while taking up less space to boot.
Solar used to be more expensive but over the last 5 years there has been an 80% reduction in the cost of solar.

This has made large scale solar (72) cheaper than nuclear (124).

Small scale solar is still more expensive but is getting cheaper (126 - 177).

Small scale solar also has the advantage of not requiring any grid infrastructure (poles & wires).

[$/MWh]

https://www.lazard.com/media/1777/levelized_cost_of_energy_-_version_80.pdf
 

Laughing Man

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100% renewable, I doubt it, if you could find a way of making all the forms of renewable work in perfect unison so that when the sun stops shining and the wind stops blowing the geo thermal takes over, it would be nice. The problem with 100% renewable, in fact with renewable in general is that us humans won't put up with brown outs or black outs and without the ability to store electricity in massive volumes when the sun stops shining and the wind stops blowing the power stops, which means you need to have something up and running and ready to take over in an instant. Currently that is conventional power stations, coal, oil, gas, nuclear the more renewable you add to the grid the more conventional you need to have sitting powered up on stand by to take over when the sun stops shining or the wind stops blowing.
 

Souplex

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Jul 29, 2008
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What does everyone have against nuclear?
Nuclear has the most oomph, and it's clean.
Don't be anti-science.