How far should "It's my body, I can do what I want" go?

[Dwarfman]

Snip

Till you are dead. Consequences of actions.

This is a statement I can agree with. You can and should be able to do anything you want with yourself, however there are always consequences to your actions and if you are unwilling to accept these consequences, or the consequences are fast becoming an uneccesary danger for yourself and others, then you probably shouldn't be doing what you're doing.


A case in point would be a former sous chef of mine;

A disgusting individual who would drink too much, smoke too much, behave in a vulgar fashion too much and eat too much rich, fatty, acidic food. You may think typical chef right? And I would agree with you.

However the man had ulcers in his stomach and intestines. He would eat a bacon sandwich smothered in smokehouse sauce and drink till three in the morning and then vomit blood up the next day - sometimes dissappearing in the middle of service. I would usually see him with a big bottle of anti-heartburn medicine that he drank like water.

He would often call in sick due to intense migraines and bleeding from his ulcers. I would also discover he had been drinking heavily for the last few nights. He often came into work still hungover thinking nobody noticed.

He claimed that smoking helped ease his aches and pains and yet everyone could tell by the coughing he had enphisema and only at 29.

His hideous behaviour and attitude that made even the most hardcore hospitallier shake their head at least from what I can tell is what has gotten this man unemployed at every job his worked.

And yet after all this was laid bare to him he was in complete denial to the consequences of his actions "No one can tell me what to do" He would say. And I agree. It's his body and he can destroy himself as much as he wants. What ticks me off is in ten years time through government taxes I'm going to be the one paying for his bills as he slowly dies in a hospital somewhere - lingering like the smell of stale vomit no doubt.

 

[WolfEdge]

Of course it should be illegal. I'm all for self-abuse and all (it IS your body, it's yours to do with as you see fit) but parents effectively give up certain rights in order to gain others. This includes not being able to binge for nine measly fucking months while a future-human GROWS IN YOUR STOMACH.

In return, you gain the right to raise that human and teach it as you were taught.

Slippery slope and all that.

There needs to be better education. Not litigation.

I can't stand the idea of women drinking while pregnant but it's not my body, I think they should have the right to drink, I also think that when they do so everyone should be disgusted.

Still though, it's hard for me to accept that argument when it comes from a pregnant woman because her actions now have a DIRECT and UNAVOIDABLE impact on the free will of another individual. Maybe not right now (if you want to argue from the pro-abortionist's perspective), but most definitely in the future. What's the real difference between this and someone leaving a baby locked in a parked car?

Maybe I'm just not able to separate my own visceral reactions from the circumstances surrounding this specific brand of wrong-doing, and for that I apologize, but what that woman is doing feels inexplicably like abuse. It's just a slightly modified method of doing so.

 

[Nouw]

You should be able to do anything with your body unless it is being shared like in this situation.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should though.

 

[PrimoThePro]

You SHOULD be able to do almost anything you want with your own body. But when you pregnant, it's not just YOUR body now is it?

Ya, it sucks that the baby/fetus (Whatever you think he/she is) isn't safe in the womb of the person everyone expects to take care of the baby/fetus when it's out of the womb. Not cool.

 

[eljawa]

You SHOULD be able to do almost anything you want with your own body. But when you pregnant, it's not just YOUR body now is it?

yep. it is

 

[kickyourass]

As far as I'm concerned, you can do anything you want to yourself as long as what you do doesn't hurt anyone else. For instance if you live on your own in the ass end of nowhere, go ahead and pour whatever crap you damn well please into your body. but if you intend to live anywhere near other people you better cut that shit out, being high on say, heroin tends to cause harm to more then just yourself in that context.
Same here, on any other day I literally couldn't care less about how shit-faced some twit on facebook got, but since she's PREGNENT, that means it's not solely her body any more, so no she can't do whatever she wants.

 

[Tdc2182]

But when you pregnant, it's not just YOUR body now is it?

Exactly.

You are now caring for another person. Some decisions you make while in the womb pretty much affect the rest of that kids life.

 

[FalloutJack]

Self-gratification in moderation is not a bad thing, assuming you're alright with the consequences.

 

[Biosophilogical]

The point where you begin infringing on someone else's physical/mental well-being is the point you draw the line. And yes, I consider a fetus to be a "someone else".

This. Except that fetus part. Technically I don't think you should call it 'harming' the fetus, because technically the fetus isn't the person it will be. However, it should be considered bad because you are creating a life with the clear intention (or apathy at the very least) of creating a disadvantaged being. Therefore, that disadvantaged life an be considered worse than no life at all (the life would be include more pain than not, and it is potentially a burden to everyone concerned).

So the options are 'Create a life/Don't create a life/Create a bad life". The last should be punishable, because it is effectively pre-emptive torture/abuse because you are creating a life which, by its nature, is going to be the subject or cause of psychological/financial/social[footnote]Social as in 'social life', not as in 'societal', though that too[/footnote] damage.

So yeah, in some weird progressing conclusion, 'damaging' a fetus isn't bad in the sense of hurting the child it could have been, but rather because of the pain of the child that will be. So it falls under the bracket rule of "Do whatever you want with your body, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else without their consent"

 

[duchaked]

as long as it doesn't directly affect another life

that's how I see it anyway

 

[blankedboy]

You SHOULD be able to do almost anything you want with your own body. But when you pregnant, it's not just YOUR body now is it?

I was trying to think of some long-winded and terrible response that'd ultimately convey my fellings, but I think you've done it a hell of a lot better. That works.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Until a baby is born, it is a parasite that feeds off a host. The "It's a living human being" is bullshit and made to guilt mothers into carrying full term when maybe they shouldn't. True fucking fact.

People in favor of abortion have to use ass backwards logic to make themselves believe we shouldn't treat a human fetus as a living thing in order to feel justified killing it. True fucking fact.

See how easy it is for me to hyperbole you back? Wanna try calming down and discussing it like a civilized person?

Yep, righto. Yes, I'm in favour of abortion. I also believe that people who think that a foetus that is a living, breathing human being are naive.

Apply my logic to the situation: She's almost 7 months pregnant but drinking heavily when she would have been talked through all the risks of consuming alcohol while carrying. Now, does that child have any chance of being born without a severe medical condition? Very unlikely. Should this woman have aborted a child that she (in this context) probably doesn't want? Yes.

If she wanted to abort, she may not have felt comfortable? Ever seen Juno?

It's utter rubbish to believe that a foetus is a proper person while it's still in the womb.

Care to explain WHY you think its rubbish? I'm pretty sure its a living thing.
You want me to think about her feeling comfortable? She felt comfortable having sex didn't she? She made the choice to get pregnant. She has no right to drown her child in alcohol because she is "feeling uncomfortable" about that choice. That child does not deserve to be born damaged because some dumb bimbo cannot use protection like a responsible adult.

Actually there is a chance that the fetus will never become a person even after birth because of her actions.
There is also Fetuses that turn into parasites quite a few times from never being born.
The names of them Elude me ATM, however they exist.

 

[Eldarion]

Until a baby is born, it is a parasite that feeds off a host. The "It's a living human being" is bullshit and made to guilt mothers into carrying full term when maybe they shouldn't. True fucking fact.

People in favor of abortion have to use ass backwards logic to make themselves believe we shouldn't treat a human fetus as a living thing in order to feel justified killing it. True fucking fact.

See how easy it is for me to hyperbole you back? Wanna try calming down and discussing it like a civilized person?

Yep, righto. Yes, I'm in favour of abortion. I also believe that people who think that a foetus that is a living, breathing human being are naive.

Apply my logic to the situation: She's almost 7 months pregnant but drinking heavily when she would have been talked through all the risks of consuming alcohol while carrying. Now, does that child have any chance of being born without a severe medical condition? Very unlikely. Should this woman have aborted a child that she (in this context) probably doesn't want? Yes.

If she wanted to abort, she may not have felt comfortable? Ever seen Juno?

It's utter rubbish to believe that a foetus is a proper person while it's still in the womb.

Care to explain WHY you think its rubbish? I'm pretty sure its a living thing.
You want me to think about her feeling comfortable? She felt comfortable having sex didn't she? She made the choice to get pregnant. She has no right to drown her child in alcohol because she is "feeling uncomfortable" about that choice. That child does not deserve to be born damaged because some dumb bimbo cannot use protection like a responsible adult.

Actually there is a chance that the fetus will never become a person even after birth because of her actions.
There is also Fetus's that turn into parasites quite a few times from never being born.
The names of them Elude me ATM, however they exist.

Neither has very much relevance to the discussion. If the baby dies now from alcohol poisoning this is a moot conversation. If it develops some condition that means it will never grow out of the womb thats a totally different story from a healthy fetus, if that happened it would need to be removed.

 

[The_Yeti]

Honestly, people like her should just be killed, their not human anymore.

To all men and woman like her, you should get your head lopped off for being an ungrateful waste of skin that lives to feed self and spread disease.

 

[Bobbity]

So long as it doesn't hurt or negatively involve anyone else, go for it.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

You SHOULD be able to do almost anything you want with your own body. But when you pregnant, it's not just YOUR body now is it?

There is a flaw with the thread's title. This comment pointed that out. I have nothing more to contribute other than thoughts about how drinking should be illegal when one knows she is pregnant. That's willfull endangerment, no?

 

[GrimHeaper]

Until a baby is born, it is a parasite that feeds off a host. The "It's a living human being" is bullshit and made to guilt mothers into carrying full term when maybe they shouldn't. True fucking fact.

People in favor of abortion have to use ass backwards logic to make themselves believe we shouldn't treat a human fetus as a living thing in order to feel justified killing it. True fucking fact.

See how easy it is for me to hyperbole you back? Wanna try calming down and discussing it like a civilized person?

Yep, righto. Yes, I'm in favour of abortion. I also believe that people who think that a foetus that is a living, breathing human being are naive.

Apply my logic to the situation: She's almost 7 months pregnant but drinking heavily when she would have been talked through all the risks of consuming alcohol while carrying. Now, does that child have any chance of being born without a severe medical condition? Very unlikely. Should this woman have aborted a child that she (in this context) probably doesn't want? Yes.

If she wanted to abort, she may not have felt comfortable? Ever seen Juno?

It's utter rubbish to believe that a foetus is a proper person while it's still in the womb.

Care to explain WHY you think its rubbish? I'm pretty sure its a living thing.
You want me to think about her feeling comfortable? She felt comfortable having sex didn't she? She made the choice to get pregnant. She has no right to drown her child in alcohol because she is "feeling uncomfortable" about that choice. That child does not deserve to be born damaged because some dumb bimbo cannot use protection like a responsible adult.

Actually there is a chance that the fetus will never become a person even after birth because of her actions.
There is also Fetus's that turn into parasites quite a few times from never being born.
The names of them Elude me ATM, however they exist.

Neither has very much relevance to the discussion. If the baby dies now from alcohol poisoning this is a moot conversation. If it develops some condition that means it will never grow out of the womb thats a totally different story from a healthy fetus, if that happened it would need to be removed.

Ohh who said it was alive or it was a baby.
I said Fetus, not baby.
A cancer like Fetus that feeds off the mother (some people never have it removed for years)or Come to mind for parasitism which was the discussion you are trying to move away from.
These are things she could have caused by drinking it's relevant.

 

[loc978]

Hey, if she's not interested in keeping the kid alive and healthy, let her do what she's going to do... and then take the kid away and surgically sterilize the mother after the pregnancy is over. I'm all for letting people do whatever they damn well please to their own body, including a fetus housed in it. Once that fetus takes a breath though, get it the hell away from unfit parenting... and let unfit parents feel the consequences of the actions that harmed their kid.

 

[zehydra]

Let me sum up my opinion this way. Abortion is ok but risking your unborn child to be born into a life in which he will probably wish he was dead most of the time is just wrong. I don't particularly like my life, but I couldn't imagine living with any form of disability, and if my mother was the cause of this disability I would rather be dead.

really? Why?

Why what? if you are referring to the "rather be dead" comment. I am ok with any misery I bring onto myself, if I drink myself into a coma and then I wake up and now I have a mental disability I could live with that. If I am being punished for something I didn't do I would be filled with so much anger and a sense of victumalization *Im sure theres a better word I just can't think of it* that I just couldn't deal with it.

yeah I meant the "rather be dead" part. I don't understand why you would feel punished though. There is no such thing as being "punished" without there being a "punisher". A person who lives through life with the affects of a mother who drank alcohol isn't being punished, he simply living with the results of unhealthy maternal behavior.

 

[Eldarion]

I said Fetus, not baby.
A cancer like Fetus that feeds off the mother (some people never have it removed for years)or

Come to mind for parasitism which was the discussion you are trying to move away from.
These are things she could cause by drinking it's relevant.

What are you talking about? A fetus having parasitic attributes doesn't make it less alive. In fact all parasites are living things. I didn't address that part of his argument because I shouldn't have to spell that out.

Also, don't just say "I said its not alive" like you win or something. Back up your argument.