How is Dragon's Crown a parody?

[Fox12]

The first question I'd like ask is why do you assume exaggerated character designs automatically mean it's a parody meant to take the piss out of female portrayal of characters in video games? All of the art in the game is exaggerated and out of proportion.

It couldn't possibly be doing something else?

As far as I can tell, the designs are very purposefully breaking the golden ratio. What that means artistically doesn't necessarily have anything to do with parody.

I don't even particularly like the art design of this game, but the way this discussion has gone is kind of annoying.

The developer came out and flat out said that the characters were supposed to be a parody of characters in the Golden Axe age. Though I still think they look stupid, quite a few commenters have cleared up some issues about them and I kinda see how they would work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_intent

What an author intends isn't necessarily what a work of art actually says though. It doesn't matter what the author says it says because if they could say it any other way than making the art, they probably would.

There are no other "words" than what was "written"

Are you saying the authors interpretation is secondary to that of the audience? That doesn't make any sense, the authors created the work, with certain themes and ideas in mind. You may read a work and end up with a different interpretation of the work then the author, and that's fine, but you're interpretation does not trump the official interpretation of the author. Even authors who claimed that they wrote books to be interpreted differently by different people, like Tolkien, can't seem to stay consistent with their claim. The moment someone started turning Lord of the Rings into a symbol for WW2, Tolkien insisted that the interpretation was wrong. The intent of the author is more important than the interpretations of all the critics combined. Their inability to say anything of value through complex works of art is no justification for hijacking someone elses work and twisting it to suit their own ends.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The first question I'd like ask is why do you assume exaggerated character designs automatically mean it's a parody meant to take the piss out of female portrayal of characters in video games? All of the art in the game is exaggerated and out of proportion.

It couldn't possibly be doing something else?

As far as I can tell, the designs are very purposefully breaking the golden ratio. What that means artistically doesn't necessarily have anything to do with parody.

I don't even particularly like the art design of this game, but the way this discussion has gone is kind of annoying.

The developer came out and flat out said that the characters were supposed to be a parody of characters in the Golden Axe age. Though I still think they look stupid, quite a few commenters have cleared up some issues about them and I kinda see how they would work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_intent

What an author intends isn't necessarily what a work of art actually says though. It doesn't matter what the author says it says because if they could say it any other way than making the art, they probably would.

There are no other "words" than what was "written"

And the death of the author is a load of postmodernist BS brought on by snobbish literature professors who were jealous that they didn't write these "great works" themselves. If the work doesn't say what the author intended, it just means the author didn't get his message across. It doesn't mean he (or she) intended some other message entirely.

It makes a certain amount of sense if the author is unknown, or died without having ever commented on the meaning of their work, but to say that commentary written by the author is no more or less valuable than commentary written by anyone else is the height of arrogance. I mean, did you know that Isaac Asimov was once told "What makes you think you know what it means just because you wrote it?" When he stood up to correct a speaker at a conference who was apparently totally misinterpreting one of his books? Instead of thanking the author of the book for coming in and setting him straight, he insulted the man.

Did you know that Asimov accepted what the man said as potentially having truth, because he recognized that we aren't always aware of all the things we think, and because those things we aren't aware of can easily seep into the art we create?

That's actually the first I've heard of that. I always understood he wrote The Immortal Bard just to point out how ridiculous the notion was. Great short story, by the way. It's about William Shakespeare finding out how ridiculous scholars got with his work over the centuries.

 

[wulf3n]

The creator of the characters said that he intended for them a parody of the stereotypical characters such as in Golden Axe. Some people are ok with this and defend it, while other people don't like it. And the reason I think why just hit me.

When did George Kamitani say that? I haven't been able to find this quote.

George Kamitani's stunning homage to classic fantasy gaming delivers over-the-top character designs....

It is a parody, Kamitani was making a conscious effort to make satirical character designs. You may not like them, but there it is.

homage =/= parody.

 

[Erttheking]

The creator of the characters said that he intended for them a parody of the stereotypical characters such as in Golden Axe. Some people are ok with this and defend it, while other people don't like it. And the reason I think why just hit me.

When did George Kamitani say that? I haven't been able to find this quote.

Well he didn't use those exact words. He explains his reasoning here.

http://kotaku.com/the-artist-behind-dragons-crown-explains-his-exaggerat-482450927

 

[KOMega]

perhaps it's an Affectionate Parody

Anyways,
I can see people judging something on it's art style. But judging it solely on only that seems... ehhhhh......
My "something wrong" detector just goes off when people decry things to be sexist because "boobs." :/

I mean that's a byproduct of sexism, not a direct indicator.

 

[wulf3n]

The creator of the characters said that he intended for them a parody of the stereotypical characters such as in Golden Axe. Some people are ok with this and defend it, while other people don't like it. And the reason I think why just hit me.

When did George Kamitani say that? I haven't been able to find this quote.

Well he didn't use those exact words. He explains his reasoning here.

http://kotaku.com/the-artist-behind-dragons-crown-explains-his-exaggerat-482450927

Not arguing for or against the position, Sounds like he was just trying to stand out from the stock standard fantasy, which I can understand.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Well, concerning Sorceress' homosexuality, wouldn't that be kinda funny if the most male-pondering character was lesbian? I think it's funny.

It depends, I guess. If a game is making it clear that a female character is not available to the male player, because of her sexual preferences, then that's sort of bold. But if a game presents most of its female characters in suggestive poses most of the time, one letter would hardly make for an in any way consistent message in that direction.
But a reference to homosexuality alone? I mean... lesbians are hot, aren't they? If 1/3 of all porn is about lesbians (this number is based on week-long, meticulous, and physically exhaustive, research) I find it hard to regard that alone as a subversive message.

That head? That's the head of some 12 year old goth kid. We got some Earthworm Jim shit going on here.

Yes, that looks stupid. But is that face that different from what the standard portrayal of any male, bar the "fringe characters", is like, in anime? How are you supposed to know, then, that this time it is a parody?

Anyway, if it was a parody, it would be obviously a poor one, as barely anyone seems to recognize it as such. If South Park pokes fun of the Mormons in an episode, and half its viewers think the Mormon church is really cool and become members after watching the episode, something would have went wrong.

I can see people judging something on it's art style. But judging it solely on only that seems... ehhhhh......
My "something wrong" detector just goes off when people decry things to be sexist because "boobs." :/

By the accounts of people who actually played it, there's a lot more going on than just "boobs". They're talking about virtually every female character being heavily sexualized, you know.

 

[Lieju]

Well, concerning Sorceress' homosexuality, wouldn't that be kinda funny if the most male-pondering character was lesbian? I think it's funny.

Well, considering how common fetishising lesbians for straight males is, it doesn't really make it an apparent parody.

Also, game just went full-on parody by the way. The latest boss I defeated was little, fluffy, white rabbit on the mountain of knight corpses.

So, referential humor, then? That doesn't sound like a particularly good parody.

 

[hermes]

Personally, I believe his defense of the art style makes it look like it was played completely straight. Also, the game doesn't have many humorous content to make it seem like it was tongue in cheek.

Besides, there is the issue of Poe's Law: "Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."

 

[Casual Shinji]

So the satire of Dragon's Crown is "Big tits are big tits, cuz big tits"!?

Move over, Verhoeven.

When you consider games like Soul Calibur, the Team Ninja games, and a meriad of other Japanese titles of the same nature, you'd be forgiven to think Dragon's Crown is just yet another jiggle fest originating from a rather sexually repressed society.

 

[lapan]

So the satire of Dragon's Crown is "Big tits are big tits, cuz big tits"!?

Move over, Verhoeven.

When you consider games like Soul Calibur, the Team Ninja games, and a meriad of other Japanese titles of the same nature, you'd be forgiven to think Dragon's Crown is just yet another jiggle fest originating from a rather sexually repressed society.

Soul Calibur also had one of the best singleplayer modes of any fighting game for a long time. Do a few jiggling breasts automatically invalidate everything else about a game?

 

[faefrost]

So what exactly is it supposed to be parodying? Big tits and big asses? Where is the parody elements in the other characters? There is a difference between saying "it's a parody" and simply drawing big tits in an absurd way because you think it is funny or amusing. Parody requires a certain consistency of tone or messaging. Whereas "hah hah! Tits go boing boing boing" is simply childish tasteless body humor and more than a bit creepy.

 

[Casual Shinji]

So the satire of Dragon's Crown is "Big tits are big tits, cuz big tits"!?

Move over, Verhoeven.

When you consider games like Soul Calibur, the Team Ninja games, and a meriad of other Japanese titles of the same nature, you'd be forgiven to think Dragon's Crown is just yet another jiggle fest originating from a rather sexually repressed society.

Soul Calibur also had one of the best singleplayer modes of any fighting game for a long time. Do a few jiggling breasts automatically invalidate everything else about a game?

No, but they are there.

The Last of Us is one of the best games I played in years, but if throughout the whole game Joel would sport a big floppy nose, you can bet your ass it would significantly downgrade the experience.

Also, there are jiggle physics and there are jiggle physics. Resident Evil 4 had jiggle physics, so did Metal Gear Solid 3, but then you probably hardly even noticed them. In games like Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive it's hard to notice anything else. Christ, they even advertize the games solely on this aspect.

 

[lapan]

So what exactly is it supposed to be parodying? Big tits and big asses? Where is the parody elements in the other characters? There is a difference between saying "it's a parody" and simply drawing big tits in an absurd way because you think it is funny or amusing. Parody requires a certain consistency of tone or messaging. Whereas "hah hah! Tits go boing boing boing" is simply childish tasteless body humor and more than a bit creepy.

Did you look at the other characters? Did you see that almost all of them have comically distorted proportions? Did you read the rest of the thread where people stated it's parodying D&D and other fantasy tropes?

 

[lapan]

So the satire of Dragon's Crown is "Big tits are big tits, cuz big tits"!?

Move over, Verhoeven.

When you consider games like Soul Calibur, the Team Ninja games, and a meriad of other Japanese titles of the same nature, you'd be forgiven to think Dragon's Crown is just yet another jiggle fest originating from a rather sexually repressed society.

Soul Calibur also had one of the best singleplayer modes of any fighting game for a long time. Do a few jiggling breasts automatically invalidate everything else about a game?

No, but they are there.

The Last of Us is one of the best games I played in years, but if throughout the whole game Joel would sport a big floppy nose, you can bet your ass it would significantly downgrade the experience.

Also, there are jiggle physics and there are jiggle physics. Resident Evil 4 had jiggle physics, so did Metal Gear Solid 3, but then you probably hardly even noticed them. In games like Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive it's hard to notice anything else. Christ, they even advertize the games solely on this aspect.

I can't say i ever really payed attention to jiggle physics in the first place, and it's not why i played the Soul Calibur series. I doubt that even a mayority played them because of it.

I do recognize however that the newer games of the series seem to have taken a lot of inspiration of Team Ninja games, gutting the other features of the series and started to advertize it with tits, which is regretable.
The ads of SCV were literally tits and asses.

 

[Arrogancy]

I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, nevermind the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

Actually, the Dwarf/Elf thing is a throwback to the original DnD. Back then Dwarf and Elf were classes, not races. Humans were emphasized for versatility and could go in multiple directions, but other races were locked in to a class by design. If you went Elf, you got a ranger with magical support, if you went Dwarf, you got a tanky berserker. It wasn't just a class thing, there were other mechanics that differentiated Dwarves and Elves from the humans, most notably they had faster leveling system, but capped out sooner, but now I'm just starting to ramble.

 

[faefrost]

So what exactly is it supposed to be parodying? Big tits and big asses? Where is the parody elements in the other characters? There is a difference between saying "it's a parody" and simply drawing big tits in an absurd way because you think it is funny or amusing. Parody requires a certain consistency of tone or messaging. Whereas "hah hah! Tits go boing boing boing" is simply childish tasteless body humor and more than a bit creepy.

Did you look at the other characters? Did you see that almost all of them have comically distorted proportions? Did you read the rest of the thread where people stated it's parodying D&D and other fantasy tropes?

Yep, looked at them, read the posts. I still fail to see any parody here. I see a somewhat exaggerated art style. But it's grossly inconsistent in what might be stretched to be called humor elements. Remind me again, what's the elf supposed to be parodying? What exactly is the deconstruction going on here besides a few examples of truly tasteless character design? Because "Japanese guy finds big wobbly breasts amusing" is not actually parody. I'll give you that you can see the intent of the designer for an overly stylized Frazeta type look. But that only seems to apply to a few of the characters such as the Dwarf and Amazon. The elf, wizard and fighter are played pretty much straight, and the sorceress is pure classic Japanese fan service. So I ask again, where is the parody? What is the messaging? What is overall being deconstructed for amusement and commentary? Quite often the shortest and most direct answer is the true one. Yeah the artist may say "it's a parody of ... Something" once controversy hits. But really the most infect message there is " I like big boobs! Boing!"

 

[CloudAtlas]

Soul Calibur also had one of the best singleplayer modes of any fighting game for a long time. Do a few jiggling breasts automatically invalidate everything else about a game?

No, but they are there.

And you can enjoy a game while still being critical of some aspects. It's not a binary thing.