How should the next Elder Scrolls Game be handled?

[Studsmack]

Make it take place 1000 years later and have most of the continent open for exploration. Maybe address the dweamer this time?

I like this idea. I'm not familiar with Elder Scroll lore myself, but it seems the games take place in roughly the same time period? Having technological progress might keep things fresh, in addition to changing up the geography. It could allow for some interesting new game mechanics, as well.

Similar in a way that the Fable series progressed in aesthetic.

This might be Elder Scroll blasphemy, but that's just my two cents.

 

[charge52]

Seriously, if you can name me three role-playing games released last year that were more complicated than Skyrim, I'll be seriously impressed.

Before I continue remember I am basing it off of complexity, I don't give a shit if they aren't all that good.(1 and 2)
1. Dragon Age 2
2. Two Worlds 2
3. Avernum: Escape from the Pit
4.(since while DA:2 was more complicated than Skyrim it was still dumbed down) Avadon: The Black Fortress
I can get more if you need me to.

 

[Gatx]

I want to wear pants that aren't attached to my shirt. I'm probably the only person still complaining about this but yeah. Anyway I'd love to see Hammerfell. We got a taste of it with those Redguard npcs so that might be their way of gauging the interest in where to set a possible sequel.

one thing bethesda seems to of forgotten is that its not the console crowd that keeps their games being played 10 years after release its the pc crowd and modders. most console players will get their game play it and never touch it again within a couple of months

While I'm sure as developers they're flattered by this fact, but as a business they probably couldn't care less. Those playing the games for years still have only bought one copy (most likely anyway), and even if console owners are play it through once, they are definitely more of them and they generate more sales.

 

[Smeggs]

All I want is a revamped fighting system.

I want the damned AI to show me they're being hit. My problem with Skyrim is that combat is boring when I'm literally spending five minutes wailing on a bandit leader with my axe as he does not show any sign of me whacking him in the face with my waraxe repeatedly. It's almost no different than hitting a tree, it's just that a tree doesn't hit back.

 

[JagermanXcell]

Better combat, I invested a lot of time in Skyrim, saw many problems, then discovered a huge one going back to it after playing dark souls for months, the combat melee wise is just bad, lacks variety, is boring, ect. I had to play archer only to get any real fun out of it from then on.

Another thing is the setting, yes Skyrim is supposed to consist of snow, mountains, snowy mountains, and more snow but I need more variety like Oblivion had.

The Dungeons, all of them but the Dwarven ruins felt the same, I also hated how almost every quest had me going to what felt like the same Drauger infested dungeon. Quests in a nutshell: Exposition, you need a shiny thing, shiny thing is in dungeon, drauger, big drauger, get shiny thing.

Items and skills need to be handled well next game. Once everyone discovered how to break the game and get Smithing up to 100 to get them crazy enchanted Daedric Armors and weapons, you won Skyrim...

Now this last complaint is personal but can you guys at Bethesda not put so much work into the graphics? You know, so we can avoid having to wait 3 patches for the game to not freeze "as much". You need to take more time and actually test everything before shipping that thing out, and you wonder why PS3 owners are mad at you.

 

[WillieDaKid3]

Seriously, if you can name me three role-playing games released last year that were more complicated than Skyrim, I'll be seriously impressed.

Before I continue remember I am basing it off of complexity, I don't give a shit if they aren't all that good.(1 and 2)
1. Dragon Age 2
2. Two Worlds 2
3. Avernum: Escape from the Pit
4.(since while DA:2 was more complicated than Skyrim it was still dumbed down) Avadon: The Black Fortress
I can get more if you need me to.

Allow me to clarify. When I speak of Skyrim's complexity, I am not talking about the click-click-loot-repeat combat system. I am talking about the vast majority of systems and number crunching (which is briefly addressed in my full comment) that goes on behind the scenes to determine whether said click-click will lead you to victory.

Think about it. The combat system in all Elder Scrolls games is basically to whack the enemy over the head with a stick until it stops moving. At first glance this seems like the epitome of "dumbed down." However when you realize that each attack and its correlating damage is the product of a vast amount of statistics being calculated behind closed doors and one soon realizes that the aforementioned click-click-loot-repeat formula is the tantamount modern role-playing game experience, the old-school dungeon crawlers translated into a beautiful 3D world.

Now, throw all this in with armor stats, enemy stats, crowd control,resource management, exploration,a deep leveling system (although that, at least, was some what dumbed down from its precursors) weapon stats, and a mountain of other intertwining systems culminating in whether or not that simple click defeats Alduin, or forces you to reload and keep leveling up, and you realize that Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) are far more complicated than most role-playing games available today.

I'm not saying TES series is perfect, because it's not; nor is Skyrim one of my favorite games. However, calling it a casual experience is, in my book, words spoken out of ignorance of how Role Playing games, fundamentally, work.

Now, I'm not saying you are one of these "ignorant" people. For all I know you really enjoyed Skyrim, as I did, and were just answering a challenge I foolishly threw up onto the internet.

Any-who, I hope that cleared everything up.

Peace out.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yea, but that's the thing, they are rare items. A plate made of a precious metal or Armour from a demon realm should not be easy to find. You can play the game without them, but making an item piece so rare gives it this Legendary Special quality to them. In Morrowind, sometimes there would only be a few Daedric pieces in the entire game! Lets go back to that! Wouldn't be cool if you were talking to a friend and said " So while I was out adventuring, one of the bandits I fought mentioned a city with A treasure vault with A Daedric helm in it! I'm sure gonna follow that lead! I feel that would give the game a better reason to explore as well as more wonder.

Also,they really need to switch to a new engine.

The thing is though, Daedric armor isn't THAT rare, yes it is rare, but there are many daedra worshipers and mighty mage lords who frequent the Daedric realms, and aquire such things. Daedric armor is not something that's impossible to find, it never has been, it has been hard to find, but never on the scale your propose.

And no it wouldn't want to make me explore more, or give me any more wonder, because gear grind is bullshit that is only used to pad out games instead of making real content. gear grind has turned me off of 99% of MMORPGs, I was glad Guild wars 2 said fuck that and allows you to get pretty damn good, max level, armor easy.

Also, there are many unique, and artifact, level items throughout Skyrim landscape to find, many of which are not directed to you. You don't need to limit an entire armor class when there are already 60+ unique items in the game to find.

Switching to a new engine would literally kill the modding the series is built upon. Its a tough place, switch to a new, better looking engine, but lose the ability to mod, or keep the shitty engine they have now, but in doing so keep the ability to mod.

 

[charge52]

Allow me to clarify. When I speak of Skyrim's complexity, I am not talking about the click-click-loot-repeat combat system. I am talking about the vast majority of systems and number crunching (which is briefly addressed in my full comment) that goes on behind the scenes to determine whether said click-click will lead you to victory.

Think about it. The combat system in all Elder Scrolls games is basically to whack the enemy over the head with a stick until it stops moving. At first glance this seems like the epitome of "dumbed down." However when you realize that each attack and its correlating damage is the product of a vast amount of statistics being calculated behind closed doors and one soon realizes that the aforementioned click-click-loot-repeat formula is the tantamount modern role-playing game experience, the old-school dungeon crawlers translated into a beautiful 3D world.

Now, throw all this in with armor stats, enemy stats, crowd control,resource management, exploration,a deep leveling system (although that, at least, was some what dumbed down from its precursors) weapon stats, and a mountain of other intertwining systems culminating in whether or not that simple click defeats Alduin, or forces you to reload and keep leveling up, and you realize that Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) are far more complicated than most role-playing games available today.

I'm not saying TES series is perfect, because it's not; nor is Skyrim one of my favorite games. However, calling it a casual experience is, in my book, words spoken out of ignorance of how Role Playing games, fundamentally, work.

Now, I'm not saying you are one of these "ignorant" people. For all I know you really enjoyed Skyrim, as I did, and were just answering a challenge I foolishly threw up onto the internet.

Anywho, I hope that cleared everything up.

Peace out.

You do realize when people say that Skyrim is dumbed down, they aren't talking about the programing right? They're talking about the fact that combat skills have been reduced to One handed and Two hand, the fact that a whole school of magic has been removed, the fact that they just took out Classes and Attributes rather than in any way attempt to fix the "problems" they seem to think those two systems have.

Hell, to be frank, simply because a game uses background statistics does not mean it's still complex. When people say dumbed down or Casual experience, they mean it's so ridiculously easy and you don't have to put any thought into it, which is true. The best example is to compare Realms of Arkania(old RPG) to Skyrim, in Skyrim, you don't really need to know anything about how the game mechanics work, and except for one or two skill, there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills.

In Realms, you need to understand how the skills work with the gear, you need to understand what determines whether you hit and how much damage you will do. If you don't level up certain skills, there will be things you can't do with that character. In essence, the best way to finalize is to say that when Realms was released, it could barely be considered "hardcore" because it's system was in most RPGs at the time, but now when you compare it to Skyrim(Or most modern RPGs, Except Spiderweb Software's stuff really), it's considered hardcore.

I don't want this to start an arguement, but I had to point out the difference.

 

[deathstrikesquirrel]

Allow me to clarify. When I speak of Skyrim's complexity, I am not talking about the click-click-loot-repeat combat system. I am talking about the vast majority of systems and number crunching (which is briefly addressed in my full comment) that goes on behind the scenes to determine whether said click-click will lead you to victory.

Think about it. The combat system in all Elder Scrolls games is basically to whack the enemy over the head with a stick until it stops moving. At first glance this seems like the epitome of "dumbed down." However when you realize that each attack and its correlating damage is the product of a vast amount of statistics being calculated behind closed doors and one soon realizes that the aforementioned click-click-loot-repeat formula is the tantamount modern role-playing game experience, the old-school dungeon crawlers translated into a beautiful 3D world.

Now, throw all this in with armor stats, enemy stats, crowd control,resource management, exploration,a deep leveling system (although that, at least, was some what dumbed down from its precursors) weapon stats, and a mountain of other intertwining systems culminating in whether or not that simple click defeats Alduin, or forces you to reload and keep leveling up, and you realize that Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) are far more complicated than most role-playing games available today.

I'm not saying TES series is perfect, because it's not; nor is Skyrim one of my favorite games. However, calling it a casual experience is, in my book, words spoken out of ignorance of how Role Playing games, fundamentally, work.

Now, I'm not saying you are one of these "ignorant" people. For all I know you really enjoyed Skyrim, as I did, and were just answering a challenge I foolishly threw up onto the internet.

Anywho, I hope that cleared everything up.

Peace out.

You do realize when people say that Skyrim is dumbed down, they aren't talking about the programing right? They're talking about the fact that combat skills have been reduced to One handed and Two hand, the fact that a whole school of magic has been removed, the fact that they just took out Classes and Attributes rather than in any way attempt to fix the "problems" they seem to think those two systems have.

Hell, to be frank, simply because a game uses background statistics does not mean it's still complex. When people say dumbed down or Casual experience, they mean it's so ridiculously easy and you don't have to put any thought into it, which is true. The best example is to compare Realms of Arkania(old RPG) to Skyrim, in Skyrim, you don't really need to know anything about how the game mechanics work, and except for one or two skill, there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills.

In Realms, you need to understand how the skills work with the gear, you need to understand what determines whether you hit and how much damage you will do. If you don't level up certain skills, there will be things you can't do with that character. In essence, the best way to finalize is to say that when Realms was released, it could barely be considered "hardcore" because it's system was in most RPGs at the time, but now when you compare it to Skyrim(Or most modern RPGs, Except Spiderweb Software's stuff really), it's considered hardcore.

I don't want this to start an arguement, but I had to point out the difference.

I don't see how Skyrim is overly easy, maybe because I use light armor but it is very much possible to get your ass handed to you in Skyrim if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

The best example is to compare Realms of Arkania(old RPG) to Skyrim, in Skyrim, you don't really need to know anything about how the game mechanics work, and except for one or two skill, there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills.

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but just for the record, that kind of challenge has never really been the focus of The Elder Scrolls (since Morrowind anyway). The way skills and stats are structured simply reflects this. You don't have to know about complicated synergies and such, at least not on the same level, to succeed because the idea is you design your build to taste. It's not that challenge and learning the game isn't important, it's just that exploration is emphasized, and that goes for the skills, too. That's why when you say "there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills", I can just tell this is not the game for you.

But if we're comparing TES games to each other that's a little different story. Combat skills have been folded into one and two handed but they are distinguished further through perks. I'm not spending those perk points lightly, so in practice I have six choices for melee weapons. And three of them also give me the option to use a shield or dual wield. Or I could dual wield two different types, but it will cost me some extra perk points. Oh yea, and then I'll be investing in dual wield perks as well. Or I could scoot over to the Sneak tree and boost daggers, further narrowing down my options. I'm not sure how unarmed fits into all this because I haven't experimented with it. But that's not so bad. I'm not saying I don't miss spears, but there are some areas where I really don't see how Skyrim is more dumb or less sophisticated than Oblivion or even Morrowind. I'm just making a case that while "streamlining" is frequently a convenient euphemism for "dumbing down", one is good and one is bad (in this instance). I say Skyrim did both.

There weren't classes really and thank god they got rid of attributes. They were nothing but pointless, redundant, and inconsistent design, which is why everyone just ignored them anyway. The only difference between having attributes and not having them is I no longer have the opportunity to overpower or underpower my character by grinding out skills I don't want to use and tallying up hundreds of skill increases on notebook paper. Too much level-scaling also makes those problems completely insane.

For spells I'm conflicted. Before we had like twenty ways to do the same thing, now we have one way to do five things. At least the melee weapons in previous titles were a little different. Magic just had way too many redundancies. I'm not complaining because that made the game more sophisticated, I'm complaining because it didn't. Even spell making just led to people using less and less interesting spells, not more. And I actually use the options I'm given in Skyrim, because I can't just break the game so easily or make one or two all-purpose kill spells.

But I'm not blind to what Bethesda is doing. They obviously made efforts to keep stats invisible to the player where possible.

 

[charge52]

I don't see how Skyrim is overly easy, maybe because I use light armor but it is very much possible to get your ass handed to you in Skyrim if you don't know what you're doing.

It's overly easy because there are few enemies that can really hang your ass off a castle, but they can only do it because you aren't high enough level, not because you're flailing into combat without thinking.

 

[DarkishFriend]

I think having another Dragonborn wouldn't make sense, unless you kill your father or other dragons you won't be able to shout, making the title useless.

I think it should just be; You're a mercenary, take odd jobs at guilds or from civilians themselves.

The main story can involve something politic-y, so long as your character remains in the shadows of the whole thing so guards don't have to mention you're the hero of the land. Plus then people being utter dicks towards you makes sense as they think you're nobody, instead of the Archmage-Fighter-King-Master-Thief-Grand-Lord-of-Everything.

You mean the Witcher?

 

[charge52]

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but just for the record, that kind of challenge has never really been the focus of The Elder Scrolls (since Morrowind anyway). The way skills and stats are structured simply reflects this. You don't have to know about complicated synergies and such, at least not on the same level, to succeed because the idea is you design your build to taste. It's not that challenge and learning the game isn't important, it's just that exploration is emphasized, and that goes for the skills, too. That's why when you say "there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills", I can just tell this is not the game for you.

But if we're comparing TES games to each other that's a little different story. Combat skills have been folded into one and two handed but they are distinguished further through perks. I'm not spending those perk points lightly, so in practice I have six choices for melee weapons. And three of them also give me the option to use a shield or dual wield. Or I could dual wield two different types, but it will cost me some extra perk points. Oh yea, and then I'll be investing in dual wield perks as well. Or I could scoot over to the Sneak tree and boost daggers, further narrowing down my options. I'm not sure how unarmed fits into all this because I haven't experimented with it. But that's not so bad. I'm not saying I don't miss spears, but there are some areas where I really don't see how Skyrim is more dumb or less sophisticated than Oblivion or even Morrowind. I'm just making a case that while "streamlining" is frequently a convenient euphemism for "dumbing down", one is good and one is bad (in this instance). I say Skyrim did both.

There weren't classes really and thank god they got rid of attributes. They were nothing but pointless, redundant, and inconsistent design, which is why everyone just ignored them anyway. The only difference between having attributes and not having them is I no longer have the opportunity to overpower or underpower my character by grinding out skills I don't want to use and tallying up hundreds of skill increases on notebook paper. Too much level-scaling also makes those problems completely insane.

For spells I'm conflicted. Before we had like twenty ways to do the same thing, now we have one way to do five things. At least the melee weapons in previous titles were a little different. Magic just had way too many redundancies. I'm not complaining because that made the game more sophisticated, I'm complaining because it didn't. Even spell making just led to people using less and less interesting spells, not more. And I actually use the options I'm given in Skyrim, because I can't just break the game so easily or make one or two all-purpose kill spells.

But I'm not blind to what Bethesda is doing. They obviously made efforts to keep stats invisible to the player where possible.

You contradicted yourself in the first sentence. That challenge, while not being the main focus, was always there in the first 3 Elder Scrolls game, and then they started dumbing it down. Funny, because I remember loving Daggerfall and Morrowind, so and since they were supposed to set the standard for the series, It should be a game I would enjoy.

The problem with this illusion of "choice", is that none of it matters. Oh sure, there are a few things that are limited if your low level, but really you could spend the whole game as a sneaking thief in light armor and a Dagger, switch to Heavy Armor and a Warhammer, and you won't face any real challenges. It doesn't cost you any perk points to duel wield, only if you want your swords to swing slightly faster. If you boost a skill, you aren't narrowing your options at all. I could specialize in Warhammers, and nothing is stopping me from just using a dagger and not being penalized.

Er, yes, there were classes in previous Elder Scrolls, so...
I'll state right now, they could have easily fixed the attribute system, they easily could have revamped it without dumbing it down, instead they decided to just remove them entirely so no one who plays will have to make tough decisions. Though it isn't surprising, Bethesda seems to be fans of taking the easy way, if the reasons for lack of medium armor is any indication(according to Todd they removed it because it was difficult to balance). Not to mention, the risk of making a bad decision was one of the many reasons for attributes, to give you meaningful gameplay decisions that make you actually think.

What people have you been watching make spells, everyone I've seen used it to make fun and interesting spells. In Morrowind for instance, there were people making spells that Drained enemy fatigue, and increased speed for a swift retreat. Some people would make spells that turns you invisible and shot fire just to mess with the NPCs. There were people making levitation spells that caused mass death! Again I say it, they could have easily fixed the redundancies that they had. Instead they opted to just take out half of the spells and spell making, because according to them "we just have to make it easier to learn and easier to play" or else console players won't enjoy it.

 

[WillieDaKid3]

Allow me to clarify. When I speak of Skyrim's complexity, I am not talking about the click-click-loot-repeat combat system. I am talking about the vast majority of systems and number crunching (which is briefly addressed in my full comment) that goes on behind the scenes to determine whether said click-click will lead you to victory.

Think about it. The combat system in all Elder Scrolls games is basically to whack the enemy over the head with a stick until it stops moving. At first glance this seems like the epitome of "dumbed down." However when you realize that each attack and its correlating damage is the product of a vast amount of statistics being calculated behind closed doors and one soon realizes that the aforementioned click-click-loot-repeat formula is the tantamount modern role-playing game experience, the old-school dungeon crawlers translated into a beautiful 3D world.

Now, throw all this in with armor stats, enemy stats, crowd control,resource management, exploration,a deep leveling system (although that, at least, was some what dumbed down from its precursors) weapon stats, and a mountain of other intertwining systems culminating in whether or not that simple click defeats Alduin, or forces you to reload and keep leveling up, and you realize that Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) are far more complicated than most role-playing games available today.

I'm not saying TES series is perfect, because it's not; nor is Skyrim one of my favorite games. However, calling it a casual experience is, in my book, words spoken out of ignorance of how Role Playing games, fundamentally, work.

Now, I'm not saying you are one of these "ignorant" people. For all I know you really enjoyed Skyrim, as I did, and were just answering a challenge I foolishly threw up onto the internet.

Anywho, I hope that cleared everything up.

Peace out.

You do realize when people say that Skyrim is dumbed down, they aren't talking about the programing right? They're talking about the fact that combat skills have been reduced to One handed and Two hand, the fact that a whole school of magic has been removed, the fact that they just took out Classes and Attributes rather than in any way attempt to fix the "problems" they seem to think those two systems have.

Hell, to be frank, simply because a game uses background statistics does not mean it's still complex. When people say dumbed down or Casual experience, they mean it's so ridiculously easy and you don't have to put any thought into it, which is true. The best example is to compare Realms of Arkania(old RPG) to Skyrim, in Skyrim, you don't really need to know anything about how the game mechanics work, and except for one or two skill, there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills.

In Realms, you need to understand how the skills work with the gear, you need to understand what determines whether you hit and how much damage you will do. If you don't level up certain skills, there will be things you can't do with that character. In essence, the best way to finalize is to say that when Realms was released, it could barely be considered "hardcore" because it's system was in most RPGs at the time, but now when you compare it to Skyrim(Or most modern RPGs, Except Spiderweb Software's stuff really), it's considered hardcore.

I don't want this to start an arguement, but I had to point out the difference.

I don't see how Skyrim is overly easy, maybe because I use light armor but it is very much possible to get your ass handed to you in Skyrim if you don't know what you're doing.

Allow me to clarify. When I speak of Skyrim's complexity, I am not talking about the click-click-loot-repeat combat system. I am talking about the vast majority of systems and number crunching (which is briefly addressed in my full comment) that goes on behind the scenes to determine whether said click-click will lead you to victory.

Think about it. The combat system in all Elder Scrolls games is basically to whack the enemy over the head with a stick until it stops moving. At first glance this seems like the epitome of "dumbed down." However when you realize that each attack and its correlating damage is the product of a vast amount of statistics being calculated behind closed doors and one soon realizes that the aforementioned click-click-loot-repeat formula is the tantamount modern role-playing game experience, the old-school dungeon crawlers translated into a beautiful 3D world.

Now, throw all this in with armor stats, enemy stats, crowd control,resource management, exploration,a deep leveling system (although that, at least, was some what dumbed down from its precursors) weapon stats, and a mountain of other intertwining systems culminating in whether or not that simple click defeats Alduin, or forces you to reload and keep leveling up, and you realize that Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) are far more complicated than most role-playing games available today.

I'm not saying TES series is perfect, because it's not; nor is Skyrim one of my favorite games. However, calling it a casual experience is, in my book, words spoken out of ignorance of how Role Playing games, fundamentally, work.

Now, I'm not saying you are one of these "ignorant" people. For all I know you really enjoyed Skyrim, as I did, and were just answering a challenge I foolishly threw up onto the internet.

Anywho, I hope that cleared everything up.

Peace out.

You do realize when people say that Skyrim is dumbed down, they aren't talking about the programing right? They're talking about the fact that combat skills have been reduced to One handed and Two hand, the fact that a whole school of magic has been removed, the fact that they just took out Classes and Attributes rather than in any way attempt to fix the "problems" they seem to think those two systems have.

Hell, to be frank, simply because a game uses background statistics does not mean it's still complex. When people say dumbed down or Casual experience, they mean it's so ridiculously easy and you don't have to put any thought into it, which is true. The best example is to compare Realms of Arkania(old RPG) to Skyrim, in Skyrim, you don't really need to know anything about how the game mechanics work, and except for one or two skill, there isn't really a substantial reason to level up your skills.

In Realms, you need to understand how the skills work with the gear, you need to understand what determines whether you hit and how much damage you will do. If you don't level up certain skills, there will be things you can't do with that character. In essence, the best way to finalize is to say that when Realms was released, it could barely be considered "hardcore" because it's system was in most RPGs at the time, but now when you compare it to Skyrim(Or most modern RPGs, Except Spiderweb Software's stuff really), it's considered hardcore.

I don't want this to start an arguement, but I had to point out the difference.

I don't want this to start an argument, either, so I will just say that while spiderweb games (which I've never played) are undoubtedly more complicated and hardcore than Skyrim, the general starting point when looking for a deep RPG this generation, has been Bethesda. I'm not arguing that Skyrim isn't simpler than Oblivion, because it is. But taken as a whole, it is still one of the deeper releases of 2011.

Also, just real quickly, I contest that Skyrim was overly easy. My Argonian archer was way overpowered. But my Elven Mage? That was actually difficult, and required preparation; what with all the potions and spells that needed to be managed on the fly.

 

[WillieDaKid3]

Oops. Double post.

 

[Rack]

You contradicted yourself in the first sentence. That challenge, while not being the main focus, was always there in the first 3 Elder Scrolls game, and then they started dumbing it down. Funny, because I remember loving Daggerfall and Morrowind, so and since they were supposed to set the standard for the series, It should be a game I would enjoy.

The thing about power gaming in Morrowind is it's like having a running race with a tortoise. It can be done, and you can push yourself hard if you like, but it takes only the absolute vaguest effort to succeed. They're exploration driven games and embarrassingly simple to break wide open. Truly optimising in them can be challenging but it's the difference between demolishing the toughest enemy in the game at level 1 or merely crushing him.

Similarly with the spell making you COULD make a spell that drained enemy fatigue and increased your speed, or for less mana you could cast familicide. If it could be fixed then great but I think it needs an entirely different approach to Morrowind and Oblivion.

Morrowind is difficult to play, easy to master. It's just the wrong way round. That said I think there can be some common ground in where we'd like to see it grow, even if we're never going to agree on attributes and the like. I'd suggest a sequel add in options that make sense. Go up to light weapons, one handed weapons, dual handed weapons and polearms. You might not like that a warrior can swap from a sword to a mace to an axe with little penalty but to me those weapons perform similar roles and there is little choice in forcing players down one path.

 

[charge52]

The thing about power gaming in Morrowind is it's like having a running race with a tortoise. It can be done, and you can push yourself hard if you like, but it takes only the absolute vaguest effort to succeed. They're exploration driven games and embarrassingly simple to break wide open. Truly optimising in them can be challenging but it's the difference between demolishing the toughest enemy in the game at level 1 or merely crushing him.

Similarly with the spell making you COULD make a spell that drained enemy fatigue and increases your speed, or for less mana you could cast familicide. If it could be fixed then great but I think it needs an entirely different approach to Morrowind and Oblivion.

Morrowind is difficult to play, easy to master. It's just the wrong way round. That said I think there can be some common ground in where we'd like to see it grow, even if we're never going to agree on attributes and the like. I'd suggest a sequel add in options that make sense. Go up to light weapons, one handed weapons, dual handed weapons and polearms. You might not like that a warrior can swap from a sword to a mace to an axe with little penalty but to me those weapons perform similar roles and there is little choice in forcing players down one path.

Funny thing is, you can't even pose a challenge to the toughest enemy at level one, the only way to prevent it from being 100% in his favor is if you specialized in heavy armor and axes, found the axe in Seyda Neen, equipped the best heavy armor you could find, cast some fortify skill spells, and then drank about 50 sujamma. He would still kick your ass.

You could make a powerful spell, or you could cost the less effective but cheaper spells. Yeah, I'm sure a high level mage would much rather use a cheap but weak spell when they can make a way more powerful version with a few added perks.

It's not that I don't like the fact that using a sword makes you better with a mace, it's the fact that it is just wrong. Plain and simply wrong. The art of the sword is incredibly different and requires a different skillset than utilizing a mace, someone who trains in one will not become better at the other. It's plain and simple logic. Hell, melee weapons can differ so vastly from each other I could probably give a speech about how a Katana and a Broadsword are entirely different styles and how they should technically be two different skill trees(I wouldn't though, because they are at least similar enough that it still makes some sense). If you really think it makes sense for a swordsman to gain skill with a mace or an axe by training with a sword, than look up videos of different weapon techniques, there is a vast difference.

 

[SajuukKhar]

It's not that I don't like the fact that using a sword makes you better with a mace, it's the fact that it is just wrong. Plain and simply wrong. The art of the sword is incredibly different and requires a different skillset than utilizing a mace, someone who trains in one will not become better at the other. It's plain and simple logic. Hell, melee weapons can differ so vastly from each other I could probably give a speech about how a Katana and a Broadsword are entirely different styles and how they should technically be two different skill trees(I wouldn't though, because they are at least similar enough that it still makes some sense). If you really think it makes sense for a swordsman to gain skill with a mace or an axe by training with a sword, than look up videos of different weapon techniques, there is a vast difference.

Trying to use real world logic in a game series where the main character can pause time at a whim because he realized that the entire universe is actually a dream of a being known as the godhead makes your argument laughably broken.

And really, if that bothers you, you mst be unable to play MANY RPGs because they use systems were skills don't level up by use, as the naturally would. There is not a single RPG out that uses a "realistic" or "logical" skill system.

 

[Longstreet]

This was my first TES game, so cant comment on the dumbing down part of skill i see some of you talking about.

They main change they should atlest intergrate is the fact that you should NOT be able to join the Assassins AND the companions AND the thieves guild AND the mage guild (did i leave any out, there are so many) but be able to only run with one.

Companions where only good for packing mules, once you are strong enough and can use the wearing heavy / light armor cost nothing perk they are completely useless.

Mariage had no benefit at all. Dont think i ever slept in a bed to regain health, just use the wait option. This is a story of you hacking dragons in two with a dagger (or two). no i DO NOT want a nagging wife when i come home with not enough dragon bones.

Skill wise, it was ok for me, like i said i never playd any other TES game before, the only thing, with so many skills, and you being able to them all it could become a cluster fuck.

AI. Oh god the AI. I know a game the size of the Elder Scrolls ones isn't going to have fantastical AI that can make NPC's seem truly "alive" but sticking a basket on their heads while you rob place isn't very believable.

It was great fun to do that though.

 

[jollybarracuda]

Yah as others have said, bring back the depth so that it can actually be called an RPG. The perks are a fine idea, and it's definitely fun to be able to have them, but scrap the basic "level up health, magic, or stamina?" thing and bring back all the skills in both their major and minor forms. People like points, i don't know where this idea that people who play RPG's don't like stat screens came from, but it's annoying.

If they could just get the Morrowind RPG depth, Oblivion's excellent quest design, and Skyrim's combat, it would be the best game ever.