How SW:TOR is a major step BACKWARDS for MMOs

[Kanlic]

You hear these kinds of complaints all the time, but since when has removing complicated mechanics a bad thing? Simplifying a game so that everyone can play doesn't reduce the complexity of such a game, just look at the difference between SC and SCII. Making things user friendly and removing stuff that barely anyone cared for isn't bad in any sense of the word, it is just business smart and good for the customer. You can go on complaining, but if a majority of people like the changes, then your view doesn't really matter.

As for the whole "defend your territory" aspect, that exists in shooters, RTS', RPG's, etc. That was just a mechanic that existed in one MMO that you liked, it isn't present in any other place that comes to mind.

No, the same aspect doesn't exist in those games. Because when you log off, there is nothing there that indicates anything was "yours." Not like a city, a house, or even a stick in the ground with your name on it. You have absolutely no persistence in the world, you're just a savefile on a server somewhere, leaving not even a shadow when you log off. And that's why they aren't charging subscription fees to play those games.

Seriously, you've allowed the burden of proof to be shifted (underhandedly) away from the developers. Why should they be charging a subscription fee? Server space? Other games have millions of players log on without having to keep massive server farms or charge a sub. I mean, what are you STORING there? Just your character data. Everything else is the same for everyone.

Bandwidth? Sure you have "thousands" logged onto the server at a time, but how many are you really interacting with at any point? Maybe a dozen. Having folks set up dedicated servers with 11 friends solves that right there, like other games do. No need for a massive workload.

The myth of "continuously updated content?" Yeah, lots of games have patches and DLC without charging you BETWEEN these sparse offerings. You pay for the add-ons, and then you play them. You don't have to "mark time" in between waiting for the next big content update... while still paying for this "continuous" content.

The only reason, at the beginning, the charge a regular subscription fee was because your character could own a persistent portion of a virtual world. A plot of land, a house, a city, stocked with decorations and vendors and whatever else your guild/group/etc. decided. And other players would interact with it while you were gone. YOU were creating a continuous stream of content for others, just as they were for you. You weren't just paying for content, you were paying for CONSEQUENCE. You had meaning to the game world, even after your toon logged off.

Games like SW:TOR just charge sub fees because they can get away with it, now that ground has been long broken on that. It's up to them to prove otherwise.

Now to quote Yahtzee, "You are projecting so hard that you can point yourself to a wall and have a PowerPoint presentation." Not once did I mention subscription fees or "'continuously updated updated content'" which you were keen on falsely quoting. My argument still stands, having your own in game home that you can defend is a feature from one game that you are strangely furious about not having in other games of the genre.

Since you brought up a new argument I guess I'll have to address that too. You are saying that because you don't have essentially an in game house that persists after you leave the game, you shouldn't have to pay a subscription fee. That is total nonsense because the amount of money sunk into running an MMO is enormous. They need the money to pay for the bandwidth if the game is ever going to have longevity, so that the people who had spent the last eight months leveling their Paladin won't turn on their computer one morning only to find that their account, and in fact game, no longer exists. The reason you do not have to pay for the online experience for computer games is because they are budgeted to have free online for a certain time before the online capabilities are shut down. Can you play Demigod online anymore? No. The same can be said for Demon Soul's, which will be shutting down their servers in March, and that is a PS3 game. Hell, you have to pay a charge to play on XBOX LIVE. There doesn't exist an online experience that doesn't cost loads of money for someone, and if you want to play, then you have to pay. Quit getting your panties in a bunch.

 

[Supertegwyn]

Wow. Just wow. You can't judge a game, let alone a MMORPG on what you have seen in pictures and videos! Even beta's don't come close! You have to play the actual, finished game to get any idea on how you like the game or not.

 

[Dastardly]

Now to quote Yahtzee, "You are projecting so hard that you can point yourself to a wall and have a PowerPoint presentation." Not once did I mention subscription fees or "'continuously updated updated content'" which you were keen on falsely quoting. My argument still stands, having your own in game home that you can defend is a feature from one game that you are strangely furious about not having in other games of the genre.

No, I mentioned subscription fees. Because it is part of my personal complaint, and thus an important part of the discussion as I've framed it. And I'm not quoting you on the idea of continuously updated content, but rather the proponents of modern MMOs (whenever asked what it is that makes the games so expensive).

Having a house that you can defend is a feature in several games, notably older MMOs. Ultima had homes, for instance. EQ II has it. SWG has it. It was a near-universal feature of MMOs at the beginning, because of the understanding of the ownership of virtual spaces as I've framed it earlier.

Since you brought up a new argument I guess I'll have to address that too. You are saying that because you don't have essentially an in game house that persists after you leave the game, you shouldn't have to pay a subscription fee. That is total nonsense because the amount of money sunk into running an MMO is enormous. They need the money to pay for the bandwidth if the game is ever going to have longevity, so that the people who had spent the last eight months leveling their Paladin won't turn on their computer one morning only to find that their account, and in fact game, no longer exists.

MMOs have a limited shelf-life, too. The fact remains that it is not necessary to have the massive farms of servers because, in these games, it is not NECESSARY to have the capability of millions of players to log on at once. At least not anymore. How would your gaming experience change if you could only access DOZENS of players at a time? Not much, since that's all you really interact with at a time.

These games could easily be set up so that the world-at-large is a client-side lobby in which characters move about individually while a matchmaking service groups them up with a handful of people SELECTED from thousands of players... and then that group is moved to an online arena in which the instance/dungeon/raid is played. Again, what would change about your gameplay? Not much. You wander around the world in "single-player" mode anyway until you find a handful of folks for "group content."

And without the subscription fee looming, there wouldn't need to be the same timesinks to ensure players don't grind to max level in a week. So there's no reason to worry about people hacking the client-side "lobby" in order to gain massive XP. None of this is all that different from the set-up of any of a number of online FPS games that have no subscription.

The reason you do not have to pay for the online experience for computer games is because they are budgeted to have free online for a certain time before the online capabilities are shut down. Can you play Demigod online anymore? No. The same can be said for Demon Soul's, which will be shutting down their servers in March, and that is a PS3 game. Hell, you have to pay a charge to play on XBOX LIVE. There doesn't exist an online experience that doesn't cost loads of money for someone, and if you want to play, then you have to pay. Quit getting your panties in a bunch.

Getting a little defensive there, scooter. Just because I'm not crumbling under your waves of glorious logic isn't any reason to stick with the ad hominem tactics. My discussion centers around the ISSUE, while yours continually migrates to my intelligence and character. One of us is discussing the issue in a mature and civil manner, and one of us is riding the line of "cruising for moderation."

 

[Kanlic]

snip

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I was focusing on the issue the entire time, but you just want to focus on that little snide comment I made at the end. You still didn't address the whole subscription fee of the comment, so I am assuming you are trying to stealthily avoid that point I made. Either way, it seems that the only thing that sacrifices character freedom to you is the fact that you don't have an in-game home. I am tired of talking to you, so don't bother on responding, I don't like talking to trolls.

 

[Dastardly]

snip

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I was focusing on the issue the entire time, but you just want to focus on that little snide comment I made at the end. You still didn't address the whole subscription fee of the comment, so I am assuming you are trying to stealthily avoid that point I made. Either way, it seems that the only thing that sacrifices character freedom to you is the fact that you don't have an in-game home. I am tired of talking to you, so don't bother on responding, I don't like talking to trolls.

Your inability to grasp my previous explanation (that the elements which you claim REQUIRE a subscription are present in many games that do NOT have a subscription, and yet they remain successful) is not my problem. There are also several good articles online that explain the nature of healthy discussion, and the negative effect that ad hominem attacks have on that, if you care to investigate further.

You'll likely find that you encounter far fewer "trolls" if you do... because the problem here isn't everyone else, it's yourself.

 

[Kanlic]

snip

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I was focusing on the issue the entire time, but you just want to focus on that little snide comment I made at the end. You still didn't address the whole subscription fee of the comment, so I am assuming you are trying to stealthily avoid that point I made. Either way, it seems that the only thing that sacrifices character freedom to you is the fact that you don't have an in-game home. I am tired of talking to you, so don't bother on responding, I don't like talking to trolls.

Your inability to grasp my previous explanation (that the elements which you claim REQUIRE a subscription are present in many games that do NOT have a subscription, and yet they remain successful) is not my problem. There are also several good articles online that explain the nature of healthy discussion, and the negative effect that ad hominem attacks have on that, if you care to investigate further.

You'll likely find that you encounter far fewer "trolls" if you do... because the problem here isn't everyone else, it's yourself.

ok buddy

 

[Supertegwyn]

Wow dastadly, you are really full of it.