How to win the girl. (Some help for all the "best friends" out there.)

[maximilian]

No advice can prepare you for the minefield that is another person's psyche, you've just got to get to know the person and be honest with them.

Hell, be honest with everyone (unless it'll get you shot in the head or something, then lie, in that situation).

I and most honestly say I hate the term "man up", it's quite an annoying phrase.
Like what, I'm not a man if I don't follow some dude's advice? Fuck that.

I've seen over 100 articles over the internet (I wasn't looking for then, not that it really matters) and they all seem to tell people to man up, as if the best way to help someone is to insult them.

First up, I can say "don't wuss out", "don't stifle your personality" and "don't suppress your confidence, strength and masculinity that women find attractive", but I don't think it's all that punchy as an opening line.
Similarly, my advice is "man up", in the most basic, primal way. Show her subconcious that you are a man and that you have a higher status than her. (Don't start with the "you're a misogynist" stuff, I'm talking about showing her that your strong enough to provide for her needs and give her security.)

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I'm really trying to write this as a shaking shoulders wake up call to so many guys I see doing exactly the opposite as I've described above, then coming to me to complain about how they're a girls friend, and then asking my advice, and then saying one of the following to my advice:
1) Everybody is different. It may work for you, but not for me.
2) That's terrible - women aren't just a puzzle for you to crack!
3) That would never work.
4) I'm a kind guy. I'm not one of those assholes.
5) No, I'm not going to change who I am.
and then they go back to rinse-repeating friendship zone. Little do they realise that we are all human beings with basic needs to fulfill, they are the ones whose behaviour changes and they are the ones who BECOME (change) a "nice" guy and cripple their own chances.

 

[The Eggplant]

Actually, this was quite well-said. Most of the advice might be "common knowledge", fair enough...but it's amazing how many people of either gender manage to misplace their common sense around the time they hit puberty, only to reclaim it from some lost closet of their brains five to ten years later.

No-one's going to react the same way to social signals, of course, but in general these tips seem to be able to be fairly broadly applied, which makes them more effective than some. I'd add "be prepared to take risks" to the above list, but I suppose that goes along with the whole self-confidence thing. Other than that not bad at all.

 

[Pegghead]

Good advice man, hopefully it shall clear up the insane number of threads devoted to people asking for relationship advice and uh, I might just have to work these tips on the ladies.

 

[Rarhnor]

Can we get a Girl's opinion on this?

secondly: You are not considering, cultural differences, religion, personality (specifically archetype or epitome), etcetera etcetera...
You post is WAY too shallow, man. You can't simply make a blueprint for girls. Feelings are not a 4-piece puzzle.

However, if someone actually DOES get something practically proved off this thing, I'll give a beer the next time I see you.

I understand your opinion, but the heart of the issue is not the girl, it's the guy. Similarly, while there are enormous factors that influence attraction, I find that in Western culture, the above points cross most borders. It's essentially; be the king of the jungle and show you can provide security for her (by having security in yourself).

I--I see where you're getting at (unfortunately). I haven't had THAT much experience in the whole "caveman theory", but it seems reasonable. I don't understand the big deal in all this, since it's pretty much "just be yourself". I will though, have you elaborate this:

Do not react to any of her visual emotional signs

 

[Oh That Dude]

That's great, now can you do one for getting that one guy?

We're simple. We like boobs and explosives. We like to say otherwise, but it's a complete lie, both to you and ourselves.

Clue is in the name, bro. I'm a guy too, lol.

 

[Naheal]

That's great, now can you do one for getting that one guy?

We're simple. We like boobs and explosives. We like to say otherwise, but it's a complete lie, both to you and ourselves.

Clue is in the name, bro. I'm a guy too, lol.

Still sound advice

 

[ClunkiestTurtle]

lol word of advice to anyone who has trouble with girls,

forget everything you have just read....

 

[maximilian]

Well, congrats. You took a two page thesis and condensed it into two paragraphs.

It that a criticism of my OP? My OP was written in detail for those who are seeking detailed advice. While she did sum up my post very well, I can hardly write that summary as a way of helping the guys who experience these problems. To provide that summary would be like telling Hitler to win WW2 by "defeating Russia and then Britain and the USA." It's true, summarised advice, but it isn't much help unless supported with practical examples.

Especially since this person put a tl/dr which was essentially what you said, but lacking in the substance and you ripped them apart.

He summarised my "thesis" as "CHILL", not adding anything to the thread at all. Then he supported the fact that he didn't add anything to the thread by saying he was tired (evidently not enough to NOT push "reply") and then photodumped in it.

 

[GrinningManiac]

Funny thing is: This is exactly what I do with the best-friend-wanna-be-girlfriend I have. I did ask her out, but it was a pathetically weak and shaky gesture (only because I didn't WANT TO at the time, and was forced into it by a really pushy mate)

The other funny thing is, these days she gets on my nerves a lot more, because I've gotten tired (and aware) of the fact that she likes commanding the group. She's not an attention-whore as such, or a bossy-boots, she just likes being the shepherd to the sheep, and it's really grating with me. Plus, she can't take criticism/an argument without taking it really personally and getting bitchy.

Unfortunately, stopping 'fancying' her is probably making me more aloof, and therefore slightly more desirable

CURSE YOU, FATE!

 

[Kraj]

... why is this here? I appreciate the gesture; or at least I'm trying to.... Okay no I don't. I never have to chase girls! There are always plenty around! >_>
That advice seems a bit bad. There are over 4billion women in the world, treating them all the same? Thats as stupid as treating everyone of a certain race the same because they're... that.... oicwhatchudidthere. O_O

 

[Fusoiya]

Wow, apperently a lot has changed in the past year that I didn't have a GF >.>

 

[maximilian]

I will though, have you elaborate this:

Do not react to any of her visual emotional signs

Sure, I may not have explained that the best I could. What I mean is that often in your knowing a girl, she will experience some "extreme" emotion (a bug crawling on her, a bad mark in a test etc.). What often happens is a guy can "break" the cool and instantly start fawning over her. If a bug has crawled on her and made her jump, don't try and get it off her and then grind it into the ground and tell her that it will never bother her again. Just smile politely and use the chance to rib her gently for how small the bug is, and then move on in conversation. Similarly, if she does bad in a test, just acknowledge it very briefly and then move on. Don't pledge to help her pass, swear about the teachers being corrupt or put your arm around her.
Essentially, resist the urge to play pre-relationship boyfriend. The only way she will cope with this sudden intimacy of you fawning over her will either be by instantly mentally declaring you a friend (validating your over protective behaviour) or finding you creepy.

 

[Private Custard]

No matter what's required to crawl out of the friend zone, I absolutely refuse to be someone I'm not. What's the point in fucking someone if you've basically had to talk (or fool) them into it??

If you click, you click. If you don't, find someone else.

 

[maximilian]

Dude, you will never get laid if you follow those rules. Seriously. Wow. I actually can't believe that you're being serious!!

You poor, poor human being.

Can you expand on this sentiment, considering I have had girlfriends and am currently in a long term relationship?

I understand the typical response from a girl - "this is laughable, no girl is like this, I'm angry that you would characterise my gender as such" - and I can recognise that all relationships are different, which is why I am addressing this to the guys here who are suffering the issues I've aimed to tackle in the OP. If you want to be snarky, then at least contribute an argument.

This is particularly poignant for me, as I KNOW that these modifications in my behaviour (note: not the girl's) made me more desirable.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I think this is a refreshing change in the same bland old thread topics. And I thank you for bringing something new to the table

 

[LostTimeLady]

Right, hmmm, ok... let's see how to make a constructive reply to this. Ah yes...

Good advice I think. Pointing out that females are, in fact, merely humans with two XX chromosomes is a good point. We ain't a mysterious race of creatures native to Venus, nor do we all look like pre-raphalite pictures of the that same Roman godess however.

I find it curious that there is an asumption that you can't go from friendship into relationship and that atractiveness will be the thing that kicks everything off. For those people (and in this context read 'for those women') who lack the body confidence this kind of appears to put those sorts of people at a disadvantage.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's all to do with appreance to start of with but I kinda hope not...

 

[The Stonker]

Be your self because if the girl falls for you because of this then it's bullcrap.
But the confidence part and the cocky part yeah those help.
And of course treat women just like you treat your buddy like shit because they want to be equal in your eyes.

Well I was obviously kidding about the shit part.

 

[Quaidis]

I can't list steps that are right, but I can list the ones that are wrong.

Three things you shouldn't do when trying to 'get the girl':

1. Don't talk about fucking her, how she puts you in the mood to fuck, or anything horny. Keep it to yourself. Trust me, any chick you just meet isn't going to want to know that. There's having a crush on someone and blowing on a picture of their face on a teddy bear in bed. Even if you knew the chick for years, out of nowhere going horney at them (even if it's about their breast size and figure) is going to creep them out and drive them away.

2. Don't wait for her to ask you out. She's waiting for you. You're a friend or some random guy if you take no steps. If you don't ask her out, she will think you aren't interested. That and you're lazy as all shit. And if she says no, you're welcome to consider why or discuss why at a different time. Don't scream out, "WHY!? DON'T YOU LOVE ME!??!" when she refuses, as that will only alienate her. Maybe it's how you never brush your teeth, you smell like necrotic tissue, you're a freaking jerk, or steps 1 or 3.

3. Don't date while unemployed, and don't expect that she'll throw a blind eye to it. It's not that women want money, they just want a guy that can support himself. Not a guy who works at McDonald or the local movie theatre, but a guy who has a good-paying job - even if it's behind a cubical. Besides, you could spend more time getting a job or working to get one than obsessing over the one you love*. One thing that pisses off a woman more than anything is a leech, especially if you're also scum, lazy, and you can't hold a conversation without blurting off about her tits or your dick. (*Exception if you are trying for that degree in college, since you're already actively working to get that good job.)




edit - random grammatical edits to make my third point clearer.

 

[maximilian]

No matter what's required to crawl out of the friend zone, I absolutely refuse to be someone I'm not. What's the point in fucking someone if you've basically had to talk (or fool) them into it??

If you click, you click. If you don't, find someone else.

So, do you stifle all your opinions, be sycophantic and fawn all over your male or female platonic buddies?
If the answer is "no", then the problem you're having (and as described above) IS that you cannot stop yourself changing. It isn't that you need to change your personality, it's that you need to take precautions to make sure you don't become a human doormat around the one person it most counts. The girl isn't changing. You are.

Of course, if you're telling girls lies to sleep with them, then I agree with you.

 

[Embz]

ergh I would never go out with a guy who is this predictable, seriously guys who just are themselves are much more attractive