I think I would have allowed a little more at the end with Blake and the Batcave. Perhaps a sort of narrator speaking as he's donning the Batsuit... I mean they already had Morgan Freeman, why not use him to great advantage.
How would you have changed "The Dark Knight Rises"?
- Thread starter Relish in Chaos
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Bane not wearing a dog muzzle would have been a good start.
Seriously, I BUST OUT laughing every time I see the commercial. A mexican wrestler mask would have been equally (or only slightly less) cheesy, so here is a good idea:
It's 1:00min in.
I think this is the only time Bane looked more menacing then funny (though his transformation was as goofy as ever). For the gritty dark style of these batman movies, I think Bane would have been creepier if he wore a similar mask and never showed his face.
Seriously, I BUST OUT laughing every time I see the commercial. A mexican wrestler mask would have been equally (or only slightly less) cheesy, so here is a good idea:
It's 1:00min in.
I think this is the only time Bane looked more menacing then funny (though his transformation was as goofy as ever). For the gritty dark style of these batman movies, I think Bane would have been creepier if he wore a similar mask and never showed his face.
Replace the fusion reactor thing with a smuggled nuke or something, because the nuclear physicist in me is sad.
a) Nuclear Fusion does not fuel its own chain reaction except in extreme circumstances i.e. the centers of stars and thermonuclear explosions, and so a straight fusion reaction will not lead to a nuclear explosion without a fission booster.
b) Of the two most standard and most potent elements for fusion, one is stable (deuterium), and the other has a half-life of 12 years (Tritium).
c) Criticality is strictly a concern in nuclear fission, another reason a fusion reactor will never spontaneously explode.
d) The idea of decay inside the reactor leading to an explosion makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, the explosion at the end was totally around 15 kilotons, not 4 megatons.
a) Nuclear Fusion does not fuel its own chain reaction except in extreme circumstances i.e. the centers of stars and thermonuclear explosions, and so a straight fusion reaction will not lead to a nuclear explosion without a fission booster.
b) Of the two most standard and most potent elements for fusion, one is stable (deuterium), and the other has a half-life of 12 years (Tritium).
c) Criticality is strictly a concern in nuclear fission, another reason a fusion reactor will never spontaneously explode.
d) The idea of decay inside the reactor leading to an explosion makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, the explosion at the end was totally around 15 kilotons, not 4 megatons.
I would have honestly started the movie in the middle where Bruce Wayne is in the pit, with his back broken and struggling to get up. We wonder how the hell he got there and what happened to him. When you see Bruce Wayne as an introverted billionaire with a cane, we feel like, "Oh. Bruce Wayne is in a weakened state so Bane must be taking advantage of the situation in order to get him out of Gotham." Then, the movie continues on and we see the events unfold.
I feel that this is how it should have been done, and it would have been similar to how Batman Returns played out, seeing as how it references the first movie throughout The Dark Knight Rises.
I feel that this is how it should have been done, and it would have been similar to how Batman Returns played out, seeing as how it references the first movie throughout The Dark Knight Rises.
The main problem I had with the film is that the last part of the film takes place in 5 months, but it never really felt like 5 months.
As for the ending, I liked it. It gave closure. In Inception, the ending was left ambiguous, you don't know if he's still in a dream or not. So that "cut to black thing" was well placed.
Having Alfred nod to the camera then cut it to black wouldn't make any sense, because you KNOW that Alfred nodding means he saw Bruce Wayne. Using that cut to black thing here would make it feel cheep.
Also, and maybe it's just me, but the first 2 films had distinct key words like "fear" for batman Begins and " Chaos" for The Dark Knight. Couldn't really figure that key word in Rises (though that's just nitpicking on my part).
As for the ending, I liked it. It gave closure. In Inception, the ending was left ambiguous, you don't know if he's still in a dream or not. So that "cut to black thing" was well placed.
Having Alfred nod to the camera then cut it to black wouldn't make any sense, because you KNOW that Alfred nodding means he saw Bruce Wayne. Using that cut to black thing here would make it feel cheep.
Also, and maybe it's just me, but the first 2 films had distinct key words like "fear" for batman Begins and " Chaos" for The Dark Knight. Couldn't really figure that key word in Rises (though that's just nitpicking on my part).
leave batman dead and blake NOT becoming new-batman. I would have cut out Batman ending up with Selina Kyle at the end. I'd also have changed around some of the audio balance so that Bane was more understandable. He was fine when speaking in a quiet environment, but incredibly garbled in any kind of environment with ambient noise or soundtrack stuff going on.
You know, I'm getting sick of hearing that. "It wouldn't work in Nolan style movie, it would seem dumb in this setting." I mean c'mon, Nolan has already re-worked a lot of the Batman mythos to avoid campiness, he could've just re-worked that too. Venom doesn't need to turn him into the fucking Hulk, it could just make him slightly more muscly and perhaps a bit stronger.Sexy Devil said:
I hated the way Bane died and I thought it was uncharacteristically lazy of Christopher Nolan to have him die that way. He was the main antagonist of the movie until literally the last 20 minutes or so, and he died in the most convenient "Hey I'm here to save the day!" way ever. After his death he wasn't mentioned anymore either. Very lazy and disappointing.
Not a single goddamn way.
All right, I thought Batman as Batman might not have gotten enough screen-time, but other than that I thought the movie was great. I was surprised by how well Tom Hardy portrayed Bane, and the portrayal of Bane himself considering how ridiculous he is in the comics and how badly Batman & Robin butchered his character.
All right, I thought Batman as Batman might not have gotten enough screen-time, but other than that I thought the movie was great. I was surprised by how well Tom Hardy portrayed Bane, and the portrayal of Bane himself considering how ridiculous he is in the comics and how badly Batman & Robin butchered his character.
I don't think they could bring Rachael back... but Harley Quinn would've been pretty neat and a nice way to bridge the gap between why The Joker is suddenly not in Gotham anymore eight years later. Too bad they didn't have a character to fit that role introduced in The Dark Knight. Even a throwaway 'Harleen' character while Joker was being kept in lockup would've been enough to set that groundwork. I guess they couldn't predict that Ledger would pass away and they wouldn't be able to use The Joker for Rises, though.Fappy said:Rachael comes back as Harley Quinn. I wanted this to happen so bad
Hoo boy, this is going to be a big list. Well, here goes:Relish in Chaos said:
SPOILERS
1)Change the reactor/ bomb thing into something non-nuclear (a la Arc Reactor) so that Gotham doesn't get turned into an irradiated wasteland by the 30-mile radius of fallout
2)Drop Talia as a character as well as all plot points linking to her (aka the detonator). She actually damages Bane's character and doesn't really add anything of use to the story (aside from the obligatory reveal of the reactor, which could have been done in so many other ways). Anyways, it would be more interesting if the bomb never had a detonator and Bane just said that to mislead everyone into going on a wild goose chase for something that didn't exist. He still wanted to destroy Gotham like the League of Shadows, it's simply that his methods (ie the takeover of Gotham) were too ostentatious, which is why he got thrown out of the League.
Aside: The lack of a detonator would also explain why Bane's forces got shellacked by Gotham's cops. They were in the process of bugging out, and they weren't prepared for or well situated enough to properly face the attack.
3)Rework a bit of Bane's backstory and actions in the film. First, change the painkiller mask, as not only does it weaken Bane's character physically, but it doesn't match Bane's original idea. Seriously, why call him Bane if he's nothing like what he's supposed to be? Second, give some explanation as to why he seems to know everything about the city and more specifically where and what Batman's arsenal is. All that would need is a couple shots with some Gotham city structural blueprints and sewer maps, just so we get a hint of how the hell he manages to pull off all that so perfectly.
4)Drop some of the useless characters. The film could have been way shorter and more cohesive if they had gotten rid of some individuals. For example, the detective who worked with Robin could have been dropped off with pretty much no loss to story. Same can be said of that one merc dude with the .50 cal bullets on his chest. All in all, if all those characters were axed (Talia included), the film could either have been a half hour shorter or that time could have been used to strengthen the main characters
OR
5)Rework the film's flow. For the supposed 5 months the film spans, very little of that is shown. Based on the majority of the film's indications, Bane's rule of Gotham seemed to last a total of 1 week, not 5 months. Spacing out the events and adding 15 minutes worth of showing Gotham being turned into what it becomes would have helped the flow immensely, as well as give a little bit of breathing room for the viewer after the mini-climax of Bane declaring martial law. Also, certain parts of the film just need a bit of re-cutting. For example, Batman's first appearance in the film has a bit of a disjoint, where it seems several hours have passed from the daylight raid of the stock exchange to nighttime scene of Batman coming in to capture them. It's an example of bad cinematography, and really should have been caught in the storyboards.
6)Make Batman Die! Now I know that the end scene with Michael Caine is an incredibly touching thing for a lot of people, but the problem lies that it has almost nothing to do with any of the main plot. It's a subplot that pops up in the first 15 minutes of the film then disappears for 2 & 1/2 hours before popping right back out for a cop-out twist. It ruins Batman's sacrifice for the viewer, and it raises questions as to why he's with Selina Kyle, despite them having fewer romantic moments than Bruce Wayne and Talia (that is to say ZERO!)
Whew.... that was lengthy.
So yeah, pretty much the whole film needed an overhaul to make it anywhere near good in my eyes. For all the supposed talent Nolan North has, he did not bring his A game for this one.
The plot point I couldn't stand once the movie started wrapping up was that the villains' plan was apparently to stay in the same city as the fusion bomb until it went off, thus killing themselves in the hope that Batman is watching TV at the time and hasn't died of his injuries or of trying to climb out. I mean, seriously, it's not like they need to die to prove a point or anything. Batman suffers just as much if Gotham blows up without them as with them. It's also worth remembering that he makes his un-roped leap to freedom before the bomb goes off. If he'd fallen to his splattery death (without permission) instead, they'd be committing elaborate suicide over nothing. And wasn't Bane intending to come back after Gotham was destroyed to put Bats out of his misery? That's hard to do when you're dead.
On a related note: where are the guards in this prison. You know, the guys whose job it is to keep people from escaping? Like Batman did? If there aren't any, why is the prison still full of people following a silly ritual? Surely there has to be some way to hook a rope to the top and have everyone climb out. Or get a ladder or plank to cross the leap of death. If there are people enforcing it, and they let Batman go ahead and climb out, why did Bane trust them to keep him in? Nothing about that place made any sense.
On a related note: where are the guards in this prison. You know, the guys whose job it is to keep people from escaping? Like Batman did? If there aren't any, why is the prison still full of people following a silly ritual? Surely there has to be some way to hook a rope to the top and have everyone climb out. Or get a ladder or plank to cross the leap of death. If there are people enforcing it, and they let Batman go ahead and climb out, why did Bane trust them to keep him in? Nothing about that place made any sense.
But that's the thing--Batman did die. They even made a heroic-looking statue of him. Whoever the man behind theRelish in Chaos said:
Me, I'd start it out with him never having stopped being Batman, but he didn't stop being Bruce Wayne either. Billionaire and playboy any other time, but he isn't a billionaire if he doesn't run his company, and he can't be a playboy because he's hiding? Are we still talking about Bruce Wayne, here? Nope. Dude let his goal to have a normal boring life interfere with being the Goddam Batman.
First, I would have had Bane be a regular dude who was also a badass mercenary with a loyal group of men. The League of Shadows saw how badass he was and decided to kill two birds with one stone by taking him and the scientist guy. After they got him, The League hooked him up with the venom steroids.
They should have kept Gordon's son in in Gotham just to show that 8 years did pass from the last film and not a year and a half, that the film unintentionally conveyed. It would have made sense for him to stay in Gotham and the rest of the family move to Cleveland (although it would've been cooler if the said they moved to Metropolis) since he admired Batman so much.
Give more of a back story for Selena Kyle, or have Bruce mention something from her pass while he was doing research on her to tell the audience that she can selfless/heroic in unique circumstances.
When John Blake is telling Bruce his past, I would've liked it to be while living with is father who was a thief and overall bad guy, involved John in most of is criminal deeds. When John witness his father getting shoot, it's not to long before John's crimes catch up with him and is sent to juvenile detention. After a short stint, he decides to become a better person, changes his name to John Blake (from Jason Todd) and wants to become a cop.
And that whole "I knew you were Batman when I looked in your eyes when I was a kid" was so fucking stupid.
The first fight scene between Bane and Batman was good. I liked it, but could have been better. If Bane was actually rockin' the steroids it would have made the fight (and the next fight between Bane and Batman) more epic in my opinion. I would've liked to see Batman use more gadgets to fight Bane, most notably THE FUCKING GRAPPLING HOOK! It's nowhere to be seen not only in the fight scene, but in the entire movie. What the hell? A piece of equipment that was used well in the first two movies and is essential in Batman's arsenal is just sitting on the shelve collecting dust. And also, I didn't understand why Batman didn't throw a batarang or two at Bane.
Selena should have told Blake that Bruce was Batman in order to get out of going to jail. That would have been a perfect time for Blake to know the true identity of Batman.
The death scene with Talia could have used a few more takes.
They should have kept Gordon's son in in Gotham just to show that 8 years did pass from the last film and not a year and a half, that the film unintentionally conveyed. It would have made sense for him to stay in Gotham and the rest of the family move to Cleveland (although it would've been cooler if the said they moved to Metropolis) since he admired Batman so much.
Give more of a back story for Selena Kyle, or have Bruce mention something from her pass while he was doing research on her to tell the audience that she can selfless/heroic in unique circumstances.
When John Blake is telling Bruce his past, I would've liked it to be while living with is father who was a thief and overall bad guy, involved John in most of is criminal deeds. When John witness his father getting shoot, it's not to long before John's crimes catch up with him and is sent to juvenile detention. After a short stint, he decides to become a better person, changes his name to John Blake (from Jason Todd) and wants to become a cop.
And that whole "I knew you were Batman when I looked in your eyes when I was a kid" was so fucking stupid.
The first fight scene between Bane and Batman was good. I liked it, but could have been better. If Bane was actually rockin' the steroids it would have made the fight (and the next fight between Bane and Batman) more epic in my opinion. I would've liked to see Batman use more gadgets to fight Bane, most notably THE FUCKING GRAPPLING HOOK! It's nowhere to be seen not only in the fight scene, but in the entire movie. What the hell? A piece of equipment that was used well in the first two movies and is essential in Batman's arsenal is just sitting on the shelve collecting dust. And also, I didn't understand why Batman didn't throw a batarang or two at Bane.
Selena should have told Blake that Bruce was Batman in order to get out of going to jail. That would have been a perfect time for Blake to know the true identity of Batman.
The death scene with Talia could have used a few more takes.
Wow, you really ended on a Batman quote? We trying to be all philosophical, because that doesn't really work when I'm talking about technical issues.SpiderJerusalem said:
OT: What are you talking about ""almost all"? The reviews I've seen have bounced back and forth from "it's perfect" to "it's a mess", which though reviews are subjective in nature, that amount of mixed feedback is usually a good indication that SOMETHING has gone wrong with the product.
And as for my points, no most of them did not get answered (or at least did not get answered correctly).
The bomb's fallout radius is far too big for Batman to fly the bomb out of the city, resulting in Gotham NOT being saved. That is an objective problem with the script
Talia serves no purpose in the film except to show the reactor/bomb and to pull a twist that M. Night Shaymalan would be ashamed at. That is objectively bad storytelling
Bane's character is nothing like the basic idea of Bane. Nolan could have just as easily called the dude the Riddler and it would have been just as accurate a character as the one we got. That is objectively misleading character design.
A lot of the characters do serve no purpose in the film (aforementioned detective and merc mook being the figureheads of this). If they were dropped out of the film it would not only have been shorter but would have given more time to flesh out other plot points and more important characters (the aforementioned clairvoyance of Bane and his goon, and trust me I checked, there's no reasonable way they knew exactly where and what was in Batman's secret arsenal. Even Ra's al Ghul didn't know where it was. That is an objectively contrived plot point)
As for Batman's "death" the entire Alfred plotline could have been scrapped and it would not have made any difference to the overall themes of the film. Bruce learned about sacrifice and being Batman for himself long before having to "kill" himself off, and considering Alfred's only appearances were in the beginning and end of the film, they have little to do with the rest of the film. There is also the issue that with Bruce surviving his sacrifice loses impact to the viewer (the only important person when it comes to imparting meaning to), as well as creating an emotional dissonance of positive feelings mixing with a melancholy atmosphere. Slice that any way you want to, that's still objectively shoddy work
This is not the ending the series deserved. Heck it's not even the ending Batman in general deserved. What ever interesting (though already done by both Batman the Animated Series AND the 1989 Batman film) ideas it had cannot wash out the objectively bad execution it had.
Now if you wish to dispute my statements, first of all let me state that if you like the film that fine. Personal feelings trump technical issues when it comes to one's personal take on something, and I would not wish to slander anyone simply because I disagree with them
Second though I refer you to this thread
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.382690-I-hate-Dark-Knight-Rises-SPOILERS?page=1
where I and so many others have discussed the various issues with series. Pretty much any issue you have with what I've said has probably been explained and discussed there, and I'd rather not go over the same ground again as I tends to put people into recurring cycles of pointless discussion.
So I bid you adieu, as I will not be replying to any of your posts in regards to DKR, for I am now done with that film, and wish never to clap eyes upon it or it's ilk again.