To be far i didn't like that ending at all just the whole story line of that game seemed like shit to me to me so i didn't ***** about it.
Human Revolution's ending and why gamers are looking inconsistent.
- Thread starter ToastiestZombie
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Because the endings were actually psychologically provoking and didn't come out of nowhere like ME3's ending. You spent the whole game listening to arguments for and against human augmentation. It was never really clear who was the "bad guy" in all of this and the player was left to decide the fate of augmentation. You had pro-augmentation good guys (Sarif), pro-augmentation bad guys (Tai Yong Medical), anti-augmentation good guys (Humanity Front I guess), anti-augmentation bad guys(Purity First) and a whole lot of other things in the middle. Now, it's up to you to decide the fate of human augmentation.
HR....gah, I wish I'd never bought it! For once, a game actually worth the ?12 discount I got it for off Steam. :/ I'm not going to bother hiding any spoilers for this:
My fault, I'd built it up in my head, this was going to be Deus Ex but shiny..er. Stuffed to the gills with inconsistent and inconsequential characters. Either/or choices, and I'm not just talking about the end, I mean every single quest. Ultimately linear hubs with the bare minimum of interaction both with the environment and NPC's. Not to mention god awfully stupid enemy AI...but then maybe I've just been playing games for too long. The boss fights were execrable sure, but the original's weren't really thought intensive, I mean Walton Simons's is basically strafing him and popping him with the GEP gun, Gunther, hah, getting him to walk into a pile of TNT or LAMs is just cake.
I guess the only thing that's really bad about HR's boss fights is that they're so obviously telegraphed as boss fights, not to mention that to a t focus on you being locked in a room and being forced to run around in a circle in a room inexplicably filled with ammo, weapons and explosives for you to use until the boss falls over.
What's worse...is they had -multiple- opportunities to make you care about those characters, or even hate them within the context of the game rather than just the meta realisation that these are just shittily written characters. At one point when you kill the female assassin aug, in the ensuing cutscene, Jensen is talking to the AI and it comes up briefly that he is thinking about saving her (the aug) before she dies. Okay, you think, I get to make an important decision?
Not a fucking chance. She bleeds out on the floor and Jensen is free to escape to the next level and not a word more is said about her or eyelid batted. Oh, oh, but you know, I actually dragged her body out to the exit, because I thought, hey, -maybe- she was still alive and the game would recognise this.
Almost the same fucking thing happens with Namir, though he's more obviously going to die no matter what you do. But they have the AUDACITY to try and pull a 'he had his reasons to do what he did' speech from him before he kicks it. NO SHIT, I WISH I COULD HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THAT AT SOME POINT. Maybe he wouldn't have felt like another pointless enemy boss fight just like all the rest.
Oh, but worst of the worst. Zeke Sanders. He's the Purity First guy you meet in one of your earlier missions during the hostage situation. In one of the few excellent segments of the game you can talk him down and convince him he's been betrayed. In return he helps you out with some info later. You think, now here's an interesting character, I wonder if I'll be seeing more of him throughout the game? Yeah. Twice. When he gives you the info., he tells you you're even now. And he means that. Because when you meet him next toward the end of the game, he ambushes you in an apartment building. No talking, nothing, you can kill or incapacitate him, but at this point he's just a mindless enemy like all the other non-important character NPC enemies.
There's much, much more that pissed me off about this game, but I can't even continue typing. HR just really really pisses me off right now. And it's worse because it's the kind of pissedoffness I think a parent would feel for a disappointing child. That you expected so much better of them and they let you down.
My fault, I'd built it up in my head, this was going to be Deus Ex but shiny..er. Stuffed to the gills with inconsistent and inconsequential characters. Either/or choices, and I'm not just talking about the end, I mean every single quest. Ultimately linear hubs with the bare minimum of interaction both with the environment and NPC's. Not to mention god awfully stupid enemy AI...but then maybe I've just been playing games for too long. The boss fights were execrable sure, but the original's weren't really thought intensive, I mean Walton Simons's is basically strafing him and popping him with the GEP gun, Gunther, hah, getting him to walk into a pile of TNT or LAMs is just cake.
I guess the only thing that's really bad about HR's boss fights is that they're so obviously telegraphed as boss fights, not to mention that to a t focus on you being locked in a room and being forced to run around in a circle in a room inexplicably filled with ammo, weapons and explosives for you to use until the boss falls over.
What's worse...is they had -multiple- opportunities to make you care about those characters, or even hate them within the context of the game rather than just the meta realisation that these are just shittily written characters. At one point when you kill the female assassin aug, in the ensuing cutscene, Jensen is talking to the AI and it comes up briefly that he is thinking about saving her (the aug) before she dies. Okay, you think, I get to make an important decision?
Not a fucking chance. She bleeds out on the floor and Jensen is free to escape to the next level and not a word more is said about her or eyelid batted. Oh, oh, but you know, I actually dragged her body out to the exit, because I thought, hey, -maybe- she was still alive and the game would recognise this.
Almost the same fucking thing happens with Namir, though he's more obviously going to die no matter what you do. But they have the AUDACITY to try and pull a 'he had his reasons to do what he did' speech from him before he kicks it. NO SHIT, I WISH I COULD HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO THAT AT SOME POINT. Maybe he wouldn't have felt like another pointless enemy boss fight just like all the rest.
Oh, but worst of the worst. Zeke Sanders. He's the Purity First guy you meet in one of your earlier missions during the hostage situation. In one of the few excellent segments of the game you can talk him down and convince him he's been betrayed. In return he helps you out with some info later. You think, now here's an interesting character, I wonder if I'll be seeing more of him throughout the game? Yeah. Twice. When he gives you the info., he tells you you're even now. And he means that. Because when you meet him next toward the end of the game, he ambushes you in an apartment building. No talking, nothing, you can kill or incapacitate him, but at this point he's just a mindless enemy like all the other non-important character NPC enemies.
There's much, much more that pissed me off about this game, but I can't even continue typing. HR just really really pisses me off right now. And it's worse because it's the kind of pissedoffness I think a parent would feel for a disappointing child. That you expected so much better of them and they let you down.
you are definitely not alone. i felt the same way, i just wish it would explain how each ending changes what happens with deus ex 1, and which of the endings is considered canon.Moth_Monk said:
Hey I really liked the ending to Deus Ex: Human Resources* So stop spreading your diseased filthy wrong opinion! XD
It has closure since you have enough information to easily piece together what's going to happen in the future depending on your choices.
I chose the "blow yourself up" option since it was the only one that didn't involve making sweeping, planet changing decisions. Come on, stop all scientific advancement? Overregulate the economy? Push augmentation way too far? Or none of the above, nuke the place from orbit and just let everyone just get over it.
Yes please!
It's been basically just presenting you with theories, ideas, hypotheticals, ideas in practise etc etc and saying "well, choose your favourite!" the entire game. The ending takes this theme and runs with it. Like all good theming should do.
And some people just have a problem with "Endingtron 3000s" in general. No idea why. It was used pretty well in HR.
ME3's theming was really good in general, though some people insist that all theming was destroyed in five minutes in the ending. That's up for debate I think.
[sub]*I'll stop using that joke when it stops being funny dammit![/sub]
It has closure since you have enough information to easily piece together what's going to happen in the future depending on your choices.
I chose the "blow yourself up" option since it was the only one that didn't involve making sweeping, planet changing decisions. Come on, stop all scientific advancement? Overregulate the economy? Push augmentation way too far? Or none of the above, nuke the place from orbit and just let everyone just get over it.
Yes please!
It's been basically just presenting you with theories, ideas, hypotheticals, ideas in practise etc etc and saying "well, choose your favourite!" the entire game. The ending takes this theme and runs with it. Like all good theming should do.
And some people just have a problem with "Endingtron 3000s" in general. No idea why. It was used pretty well in HR.
ME3's theming was really good in general, though some people insist that all theming was destroyed in five minutes in the ending. That's up for debate I think.
[sub]*I'll stop using that joke when it stops being funny dammit![/sub]
Let's get this out of the way that I actually loved the endings to Human revolution. But, they had their flaws which to me are exactly the same as what ME3's endings had.The Wykydtron said:
Also, you have a different opinion to me! You massive retard lulz! (That was a joke, hating on people for an opinion is more stupid than kicking a horse in the balls)
Haven't talked to a single person who liked the Human Revolution ending. The key difference is when asked if they were doing something similar to the ending-o-matic of Human Revolution, Bioware responded by saying that they'd never do that and their game will have real meaning. Then they did it.
Additionally, the Human Revolution endings actually fit into the context appropriately even if they're not very good; they all dealt with transhumanism, etc. Whereas with ME3 it seems like they saw that ending and said "Let's turn this story into a big transhumanism thing right at the end even though synthetic rights have only been a subplot up until now. Except let's not even change the speech, let's just change the explosion colour."
Also, Human Revolution doesn't have a magical god child.
The point I'm getting at here is that Human Revolution actually had a somewhat meaningful ending.
Additionally, the Human Revolution endings actually fit into the context appropriately even if they're not very good; they all dealt with transhumanism, etc. Whereas with ME3 it seems like they saw that ending and said "Let's turn this story into a big transhumanism thing right at the end even though synthetic rights have only been a subplot up until now. Except let's not even change the speech, let's just change the explosion colour."
Also, Human Revolution doesn't have a magical god child.
The point I'm getting at here is that Human Revolution actually had a somewhat meaningful ending.
The ME3 ending took all the points raised in a trilogy and threw them out of the window.Woodsey said:
This part royally pissed me off. You can be a total dick during the whole game, but BioWare forces your Shepherd to be worried about a brat who died.Sexy Devil said:
It's not even your Shepherd anymore. It's BioWare's.
Take the 30 seconds necessary to actually read my entire post. I made it perfectly clear that I understood people felt the finale didn't address what they felt were the main themes of the story, and that they felt their choices didn't matter in the way they wanted.ElPatron said:
The part you've quoted was about Human Revolution (you know, the thread topic) and the gaming community's habit of creating a blanket definition for what it defines as a satisfying ending, regardless of a game's themes, narrative and purpose.
What the OP is trying to do is say the ending to HR and ME3 are the same thing, which they are not.
Woodsey and Mad8 have written really good reasons on why the endings simply don't compare. Additionally, I also want to point out just how the PR was handled in both games.
In response to the ending criticisms, Eidos flat out admitted that they ran out of money and time during late production so I think people were more understanding to their situation.
Bioware on the other hand or at least the Producer said that he deliberately wanted the ending to be controversial and let's not forget the "You won't get an A,B and C ending! You will have a lot more!". Seriously, if Bioware just admitted that they rushed the game to meet EA's release date, people would've been somewhat more forgiving.
In response to the ending criticisms, Eidos flat out admitted that they ran out of money and time during late production so I think people were more understanding to their situation.
Bioware on the other hand or at least the Producer said that he deliberately wanted the ending to be controversial and let's not forget the "You won't get an A,B and C ending! You will have a lot more!". Seriously, if Bioware just admitted that they rushed the game to meet EA's release date, people would've been somewhat more forgiving.
Maybe HR gets more of a break since it's a prequel? People know what the overall outcome is building towards anyway. The "nuke it from orbit" ending looks to be canon since all the other endings seem to stray from the path to Deus Ex 1. The ambiguity there was either forgiven or apprieciated. Or at least less rage inducing for the unpleaseable types XDToastiestZombie said:
ME3 was the end to a trilogy so the epic level of ambiguity it leaves you with is kinda unacceptable since trilogies are meant to end with some closure.
The ending isn't bad certainly, The absolute bullshit rage about it over these few weeks has escalated to such an extent where I can only say "guys, it's not that bad... Oh you're filing a formal complaint to a higher authority over an ending? Excuse me while I go rage in a corner over the stupidity of it"
Let me butcher a quote to outline my point.
"Context, dear Zombie, it's time we did something about context"
The Wykydtron said:
But you do have to remember that they are making a DLC just to give closure, people seem to be forgetting that. Maybe the DLC does F all to fix anything, but maybe it shows us what happens to shephard, the normandy crew and the races.
Probably because everyone expected Human Revolution to be a lazy cash in on an old franchise (i.e. the syndicate reboot) which was made for a quick buck (Square has not been doing well financially, and HR singlehandedly pushed it into the black last year).
Mass Effect on the other hand was meant to be the greatest story ever told in video games, and it was financed by the second largest publisher around. It was allegedly so great that EA could use it and BF3 to duel handedly make us accept origin.
However when they both came out they were actually quite even (personally I thought HR was the better of the 2).
Now when the lazy cash in turns out to be good, people are obviously going to cut it a lot of slack, I remember being astonished by the level of detail, and care that had been put into HR, the first time I played it.
However when the "Best game ever" turns out to be only quite good, and has an ending that blatantly cut corners (i.e. Liara appearing instead of Tali/Jack/whoever) people are going to be annoyed.
Another thing that doesn't help ME3 is the way Bioware, EA and the gaming media have reacted to fans reactions to the ME3 catastrophe.
Calling people entitled or homophobes for not liking your game does not fly and it's no wonder people responded with anger.
Eidos Montreal on the other hand have apologized for the boss fights.
Tldr: HR was an underdog and made by nice people where as ME3 was a real Goliath made by people who seem to have lost their copies of 'PR for dummies'
EDIT: One last thing.
The endings of HR had more context than ME3, this is especially obvious when it comes to ME3s control ending and HRs illuminati ending.
In HR
gives a compelling speech in favor of the illuminati ending where as in ME3 the child just kinda mentions that you could control the reapers.
If say when you choose the ending in ME3 you had Anderson, TIM and I dunno Legion? argue in favor of each ending before you choose people would have been happier.
Everywhere you go in HR the consequences of augmentation are being shoved in your face, meaning that by the time the player reaches the buttons, they will have formed an opinion.
In ME3 the organics Vs synthetics theme only really comes up once and even then you can resolve in peacefully. Suddenly being told that the Geth will destroy everyone doesn't really ring true especially after ME2 so organics Vs synthetics being the crux of the narrative doesn't really work.
Also the merge ending in ME3 makes no sense in biological terms and this felt kinda jarring after Bioware at least tried to be scientific in the rest of the series.
Mass Effect on the other hand was meant to be the greatest story ever told in video games, and it was financed by the second largest publisher around. It was allegedly so great that EA could use it and BF3 to duel handedly make us accept origin.
However when they both came out they were actually quite even (personally I thought HR was the better of the 2).
Now when the lazy cash in turns out to be good, people are obviously going to cut it a lot of slack, I remember being astonished by the level of detail, and care that had been put into HR, the first time I played it.
However when the "Best game ever" turns out to be only quite good, and has an ending that blatantly cut corners (i.e. Liara appearing instead of Tali/Jack/whoever) people are going to be annoyed.
Another thing that doesn't help ME3 is the way Bioware, EA and the gaming media have reacted to fans reactions to the ME3 catastrophe.
Calling people entitled or homophobes for not liking your game does not fly and it's no wonder people responded with anger.
Eidos Montreal on the other hand have apologized for the boss fights.
Tldr: HR was an underdog and made by nice people where as ME3 was a real Goliath made by people who seem to have lost their copies of 'PR for dummies'
EDIT: One last thing.
The endings of HR had more context than ME3, this is especially obvious when it comes to ME3s control ending and HRs illuminati ending.
In HR
Bill Taggart
If say when you choose the ending in ME3 you had Anderson, TIM and I dunno Legion? argue in favor of each ending before you choose people would have been happier.
Everywhere you go in HR the consequences of augmentation are being shoved in your face, meaning that by the time the player reaches the buttons, they will have formed an opinion.
In ME3 the organics Vs synthetics theme only really comes up once and even then you can resolve in peacefully. Suddenly being told that the Geth will destroy everyone doesn't really ring true especially after ME2 so organics Vs synthetics being the crux of the narrative doesn't really work.
Also the merge ending in ME3 makes no sense in biological terms and this felt kinda jarring after Bioware at least tried to be scientific in the rest of the series.
In my opinion ME could have had an open ending if it brought closure. It didn't. It did not need to cover detail. But the ending created more questions. Now it needs detail that could have been redundant if people didn't watch their love interest ditching them and crashing on another planet.Woodsey said:
Gamers don't need coverage of all the details, even if you think that a lot of people are asking for it.
The fact that it ignored the point of the trilogy only added insult to injury, and I got the first time I read your post that you understood it.
While it was not handled the best way, HR's endings were really very good. They were:
A: Thematically Consistent
B: Three of the Four choices were foreshadowed well beforehand
C: Well written
D: Shows both hope and doubt for the future of the human race
E: Acknowledges player's play style
F: We got a resolution for Jensen in each of the 4 endings.
Mass Effect 3 had none of these things.
I think Jesse Cox summed it up best. DX:HR's endings work because, frankly, while the characters of HR are really rather excellent, you didn't play it to hear their story. No, the story we cared about was Jensen's. We saw him through every moment of his adventure. We had a connection with him and his choices. I played Mass Effect 3 for my squadmates: they were the real stars of the show. Therefore, HR's endings played to the game's strengths, ME3's did not.
But, this is just my opinion. I love HR to comparable level to witch I love my own offspring, so maybe I'm just a fanboy.
A: Thematically Consistent
B: Three of the Four choices were foreshadowed well beforehand
C: Well written
D: Shows both hope and doubt for the future of the human race
E: Acknowledges player's play style
F: We got a resolution for Jensen in each of the 4 endings.
Mass Effect 3 had none of these things.
I think Jesse Cox summed it up best. DX:HR's endings work because, frankly, while the characters of HR are really rather excellent, you didn't play it to hear their story. No, the story we cared about was Jensen's. We saw him through every moment of his adventure. We had a connection with him and his choices. I played Mass Effect 3 for my squadmates: they were the real stars of the show. Therefore, HR's endings played to the game's strengths, ME3's did not.
But, this is just my opinion. I love HR to comparable level to witch I love my own offspring, so maybe I'm just a fanboy.
HR ending was great. Why should I care about some stupid 'choices' I made to get there? What happens to a few people I knew is irrelevant compared with the overarching narrative and the larger scheme of things Deus Ex is concerned with, like technology and ethics. Honestly, gamers are looking all TOO consistent - favoring personalized plots which, being individually tailored to each player, can only ever be shallow. Imagine if a book like War & Peace changed the ending depending on your personal preferences - which characters you liked best, cared about, etc.
BRING BACK THE SINGLE ENDING. TO HELL WITH MULTIPLE ENDINGS.
BRING BACK THE SINGLE ENDING. TO HELL WITH MULTIPLE ENDINGS.