Human Revolution's ending and why gamers are looking inconsistent.

[Thammuz]

Here's why people gave less fucks about DE:HR than ME3:

1) DE is much older a franchise, and nobody expects anything good from necromantic sequel making. As it stands, people expected a shit game with nothing resembling the original and got a game that somewhat resembled it, with occasional moments of brilliance and occasioanl moments of shit. Ergo, better than expected. ME, by contrast is a franchise that started off as a sequel-y sort of thing, and people were eagerly waiting for the ending since the very beginning. 5 years ago. Much more investment there.

2) DE's ending, while craptacular in its own right, is, at least, consistent with the plot. Deus ex machina and retarded, but consistent. Not to mention a callback to the endingof the original. ME3's is retarded and deus ex machina as well, but it isn't consistent with the lore.

3) EA. People fucking HATE EA. And rightly so. The working conditions there are known to be abysmal and they're rightly infamous as the worst industry in the business. They're the biggest producers of consumer schlock, except for activision's CoD, much like Hasbro would be the biggest producer of toys if it weren't for mattel's barbie. Ever since EA aquired BioWare, old fans had been dreading the effects they were going to have on their (our) old favourite. Can't say they weren't right, to be honest. And to think if they just held out long enough to publish Mass Effect 1 before signing the deal they wouldn't have needed to.

4) Focus. Deus ex's plot, while interesting and, hell, i'd even say good, is not the main point of the game. I can honestly play that game over and over and, aside for very bad balancing issues, the gameplay is what brings me back every time. I like the stealth, i like the action, i like how you can find different routes into buildings and how well you can use your brain if you want. ME has never been stellar on that front, entertaining, maybe, but certainly not diversified and/or open enough to warrant replays only on that merit. People come back to ME because of the plot, which is why a failure on that froont is that much worse in ME than in HR.

 

[Gennadios]

My memory of HR's ending wasn't exact, but it had alot more going for it than ME3's.

1) HR was pretty much a closed narrative, it was tied to a series but your choices were always meant to be immediate, they weren't advertising anything being carried over or having repercussions further down the line.

2) The Deus Ex Machina ending was in a closed ecosystem. You decided who to help and who not to over the course of the game, but at the end, the choices only really directly effected the platform. You sink it and everyone on it or you don't, and by that point you had a pretty good idea of whether it was worth saving them or not. The real ending decision was whether to tell the world what really happened or blame one ideology over another. Once again, you're not hurting the people you helped earlier because they're bit players, the world will change, but they'll be in a good position to decide how to tackle it and what to do with themselves.

Holy... Jenson's a god damn mass murderer too come to think of it, going by the explosion ending. And it never crosses his mind...

But the beauty is, you're not forced to kill people you developed attachments to, Helicopter pilot, 3 scientists you spend the game chasing, various other people were evaced but not to the platform, hence Jensen had to shoot himself there on the rocket pod. Yeah he's a mass murderer, but everyone he cares about is safe. Why worry about the faceless masses?

There *were* some of his own security personnel on that platform, but they were Jensen's in-game friends, not the players, so from my own perspective the ending worked even though it wasn't my personal "canon" choice.

 

[Zen Toombs]

In ME3 the organics Vs synthetics theme only really comes up once and even then you can resolve in peacefully. Suddenly being told that the Geth will destroy everyone doesn't really ring true especially after ME2 so organics Vs synthetics being the crux of the narrative doesn't really work.

Just so you know, the Organics vs. Synthetics theme did come up more than just with the Geth and EDI - however, it mostly involves sidequests. You are right that the Organics vs. Synthetics mostly comes from the Geth (well, the Heretics) and the Reapers.

 

[llubtoille]

They did a mini-podcast about why they went with a stylistic ending, rather than 'here's what happened' ending.
http://soundcloud.com/eidosmontreal/emp-minisode-12-the-end

The difference between the ME3 ending & DE-HR ending I think is due to the style of the game.
In the ME series your choices are more plot based, you make decisions on what to do, where your priorities lie, what your personality is.
In deus ex, the plot is essentially set in stone, you will go there and do that, but how you get there is up to you (sneak, pacifist, guns blazing etc).

Also by the end of deus ex HR, the game had essentially wrapped up the plot,
You know who was what and why they were doing what they did,
An ending showing reactions to the video you aired isn't necessary and is probably better left to your imagination.

 

[Xpheyel]

Just so you know, the Organics vs. Synthetics theme did come up more than just with the Geth and EDI - however, it mostly involves sidequests. You are right that the Organics vs. Synthetics mostly comes from the Geth (well, the Heretics) and the Reapers.

Except the Reaper's aren't even purely synthetic, ala ME2 and even the Starbrat when it says that he preserves advanced life in Reaper form. By extension, nor is EDI possibly. Only the Geth are truly purely synthetic and they be in your fleet... Trying to save organic life from the Reapers!

Fundamentally though DXHR is a interesting comparison because they're mechanically similar. An AI pops up and gives you some choices which result in something externally samey occurring (slide shows in Adam's case or the amazing technicolor explosions).

However, the AI in DXHR is an established character, using it's established abilities to distribute and manipulate information, and offering choices that legitimately relate to the issues Adam and the world have been confronting through out the game.

In the case of ME3, we've got an AI whose simple existence raises questions about ME1 and ME2, using powers that are far beyond established technology (green explosions make you a cyborg), and whose choices resolve an issue that has effectively already can be resolved, in the same game, with the Geth and Quarians. Also, Eliza didn't become the force controlling the Illuminati or Darrow at the last minute, ungh. The poor Reapers. Ok, I don't think there is anything right about the stupid Citadel AI. His 14 dumb lines derail everything. So I'll stop.

Now where DXHR ending was kind of weak in my opinion. Adam's little stock footage montage was not really engaging. In my case, I was far more concerned with the secondary effects of the choice and not the overarching theme. So I choose Darrow's ending, not because I gave a crap about his goofy anti-technology message but because it was the choice that exposed the Illuminati! I was still after those guys. And I had pretty much reached the opposite conclusion about the truth anyway, which was simply don't buy your brainchips from China (didn't even get mine, it seemed like a trap). Everyone's lucky they weren't made of lead. There's too much stuff married to what is really just Adam's choice regarding augmentation and things like the Hyron AI. Even if Adam's conflict about it is supposed to be a microcosm of the wider societal conflict.

In contrast, I don't think Mass Effect even needs last-minute choices. Adam kind of does to give the player a clear shot at resolving his problems (unless they'd built it more organically into the last level somehow). Shepard's important choices have already been made though. It might not be as amazing as having 16 wildly different endings or whatever they planned originally but having one solid if simple ending is better than what we got. Blast that meddling kid! Being kind of weak is not the same as losing all cohesion.

 

[Patrick Buck]

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty certain Deus ex revoultions was a prequal?
So the ending NEEDS to be ambiguous.....

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

Thanks for the info daveman.
Guess i read it up or watch a complete walktrough. I liked DE:HR it was kind of my game of 2011.

 

[orangeban]

HR had a big problem with it's ending, since, in my eyes at least, the original Deus Ex's ending was brilliant. I really liked the moral choice. Human Revolution's wasn't brilliant, it was kinda dumb actually. It was really dumb actually.

But it wasn't as stupid as Mass Effect's, and it wasn't as hyped as Mass Effect's (I'm talking about endings specifically). Mass Effect is a game built on moral choices, so you expect the ending to be the MORAL CHOICE TO END ALL MORAL CHOICES, and to neatly wrap up all the characters stories. It did neither.

Hell, I didn't even really understand Mass Effect's ending (wait, I can make the Reaper's half organic? How does that make sense? How would that work? What would that mean?), at least I understood and could make a reasoned decision about Deus Ex's.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Because we already knew what happened. It wasn't an over hyped "ending." We KNOW how Deus Ex ends. We KNOW who wins. We knew for almost a fucking DECADE.

The difference is that Bioware promised everything and more. It promised things it could NEVER deliver. They FAILED to limit themselves. They were too ambitious, bit off more than they could chew, and paid the price.

They opened more and more plots. The story ended up as a drunken stagger since ME2 that grew out of hand. Yet when it came time to finally END the series they couldn't make enough endings to satisfy everyone.

Bioware failed to pace itself, and now its paying the price. Its their own damn fault.


Now can we move on, PLEASE?

I was going to post but then I realized that I posted quite some time ago and simply forgot that this thread existed. So I will post a ^this^ and move on.

so..

^This^