I always liked the idea of humanity absolutely scaring the shit out of alien races.
Just the idea of their evolution being slow and "peaceful" compared to humanity's leaps and bounds thanks in part to conflict, but also the sheer stubbornness of our species sending chills up their spine is pretty funny to think about.
There was a story (Can't remember the name) about a war between aliens and humanity. The Aliens started it, but almost immediately the humans were assaulting the aliens worlds.
The aliens couldn't die - when they were killed, their consciousness was transferred to another body. They assumed humans were the same for years.
When they found out this was the case, the collectively shit themselves in terror. Death was cheap to them, but humans were descending onto their planets on tiny drop ships that they shot down in droves. They were killing hundreds of thousands of human beings, for good. And the fact that a race of people would willingly stare down oblivion just for a chance to shoot one of them in the face was terrifying.
Wasn't that "Forever War"? If I recall correctly, the war was perpetuated by the military industrial complex and only ended when huamnity became a cloned race with a gestalt consiousness; the same as their foes.
OP: Humanity would be the invader if the aliens were percieved to be weaker than us and either had something we wanted or weren't doing something we wanted them to do. That's what we do amongst ourselves, afterall.
Why does it have to be sci-fi? Back when I was in middle school or so, I came up with an idea for a novel about a group of characters trying to repel a huge alien invasion, ultimately resulting in most of said characters dying horrible deaths and the remaining ones (if any remain in the first place) resigning themselves to the fact that trying to resist is pointless, and the remainder of their short lives will be spent in utter misery. Then the last chapter reveals via a POV shift that all of the characters were actually wild animals, and the "invading aliens" and their huge machines of war were just humans using construction equipment to chop down a rainforest, or something of the sort. SO PROFOUND U GUIZE!
So yeah, there's probably no way I'd be able to actually write it without the reader spotting the twist ending from a mile off, and absolutely no way I'd be able to avoid it being simplistic and preachy. Upon reflection, it could maaaybe work as a short story though.
It would be like the Imperium of Man in 40k, religion would probably be a huge excuse/motivation for invading and conquering alien races. There would be a space Pope or space Muhammad inflaming and inciting people to follow Gods will and make sure Humans are the ones at the top of the pile.
Even if it wasn't necessarily a theist religion it would be some sort of philosophy similar to the excuse for slavery and colonisation, or maybe some sort of Übermensch/Master race attitude. There are few other motivations that could drive a war like that, resources alone wouldn't be enough because there are probably plenty of resources to be had without war and invasion.
I always liked the idea of humanity absolutely scaring the shit out of alien races.
Just the idea of their evolution being slow and "peaceful" compared to humanity's leaps and bounds thanks in part to conflict, but also the sheer stubbornness of our species sending chills up their spine is pretty funny to think about.
There was a story (Can't remember the name) about a war between aliens and humanity. The Aliens started it, but almost immediately the humans were assaulting the aliens worlds.
The aliens couldn't die - when they were killed, their consciousness was transferred to another body. They assumed humans were the same for years.
When they found out this was the case, the collectively shit themselves in terror. Death was cheap to them, but humans were descending onto their planets on tiny drop ships that they shot down in droves. They were killing hundreds of thousands of human beings, for good. And the fact that a race of people would willingly stare down oblivion just for a chance to shoot one of them in the face was terrifying.
Wasn't that "Forever War"? If I recall correctly, the war was perpetuated by the military industrial complex and only ended when huamnity became a cloned race with a gestalt consiousness; the same as their foes.
It does sound like the Forever War. Future books half-retconned this a little bit though; the hive mind was only one of many variations of humanity at this point, which I kinda like. I always feel it's a bit silly when a whole species is said to have done something together.
OP: Humanity would be the invader if the aliens were percieved to be weaker than us and either had something we wanted or weren't doing something we wanted them to do. That's what we do amongst ourselves, afterall.
Or hey, even if they were stronger; if we thought we had no other choice.
There's some depressing theory that species', in general, will always want to annihilate each other, because the consequence of not doing it when you're able to are just too terrible. If it takes you five-hundred years to get to a planet, then by the time you've reported back they may well have gone from primitive rock throwers to a credible threat or even worse, an overwhelming danger. Or from apes to angels, as they say.
So, while surfing the /tg/ (4Chan's Traditional and Board Games message board) spinoff site 1d4Chan, I came across a series of articles titled "Humanity: Fuck Yeah." Essentially, the gist of the threads was that of humanity's actually quite awesome abilities. We aren't always the weak and puny humans that media, often Science Fiction likes to showcase us as. This eventually spiraled into a discussion on what humans would be like in science fiction where WE were the hostile aliens, the most dangerous force in the galaxy, and tyrant rulers of the stars.
The results of the discussion ranged from hilarious to horrifying, and it was a fun group thought experiment on Humanity in science fiction. I was wondering if anyone would like to do the same thing here, without the usual level of creep and sperging that often infects 4Chan threads.
So: Humans are the Alien invaders. How would you interpret this? Are we colonial expansionists, warriors used to fight other alien's wars for them? A plague? Pillagers who care nothing and strip worlds clean? Anything from simple observations on human ability and morality, to fluff writing from an alien perspective of us if we were warmongers in the future.
From the office of Senator Th'rsesh, military liaison to the Omari High Council:
One planet. Just one planet, in some distant arm of the galaxy. On a galactic scale, this is a species that is by all accounts extinct. They are individually small and their prowess varies wildly between incompetent and lethal. They rely on a careful mixture of gases to breath, which is exceedingly rare on our worlds. They routinely poison themselves to destabilize their inner chemistry in an attempt to push their bodies further. When not fighting others, they just as quickly turn on themselves to fuel their lust for conflict. Humans embrace self destruction and violence as part of their very nature. They are a blip, a mere footnote in galactic history.
Humans are warlike, I know, but how warlike are we? Going by what we have on Earth, while it did evolve with us, most animals are fairly violent in some way, contest for mating, hunting, bugs have actual wars.
If all life comes from the same basic formula: O2, Heat, Carbon, then I imagine they would be at least similar to us in terms of how aggressive they are.
Perhaps all life started springing up about the same time, and by the time we meet another race, we'd be about equal technology wise? At least the inevitable wars wouldn't be a slaughter.
That makes a more interesting science fiction to me.
I always liked the idea of humanity absolutely scaring the shit out of alien races.
Just the idea of their evolution being slow and "peaceful" compared to humanity's leaps and bounds thanks in part to conflict, but also the sheer stubbornness of our species sending chills up their spine is pretty funny to think about.
There was a story (Can't remember the name) about a war between aliens and humanity. The Aliens started it, but almost immediately the humans were assaulting the aliens worlds.
The aliens couldn't die - when they were killed, their consciousness was transferred to another body. They assumed humans were the same for years.
When they found out this was the case, the collectively shit themselves in terror. Death was cheap to them, but humans were descending onto their planets on tiny drop ships that they shot down in droves. They were killing hundreds of thousands of human beings, for good. And the fact that a race of people would willingly stare down oblivion just for a chance to shoot one of them in the face was terrifying.
I'm very curious about this story/book as well. So if anyone knows what it is please tell us.
OT: I believe that (most) Alien lifeforms will probably be too alien for us to even imagine, let alone comprehend or interact with. Imagine, for example, a moss like organism which has intelligence, or some form of gaslike lifeform (which are examples i can comprehend, so it will probably be even more alien then that). If we are unable to interact and/or comprehend a lifeform, knowingly making war on them is unlikely. However, I do think that we will, strip any resources we come across when exploring/colonizing the universe, as we have done on our own planet. And in this way we will probably (unknowingly) destroy countless (potentially intelligent) lifeforms. But in the end there might be lifeforms so alien to us that we will live together in this universe without even knowing of each others existence until the end of the universe (assuming it will end).
edit: Just wanted to add a link to Isaac Asimov's short story "The Last Question" as I think it is one of the best stories written about a possible future for humanity, although it is kind of off-topic, as it has little to nothing to do with aliens.
http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm
I remember a book series that sort of had this theme, the idea was there were two alien factions, one that thought everyone should have their individuality destroyed and their minds manipulated so that they'd all work toward the same goals, and the other was for free will.
The free will side was slightly losing and were looking to recruit more aliens to fight alongside them, then they come across humanity who quickly find that apparently the alien war is literally the easiest to win war in history, because the aliens would not take any risks at all, they have not bulletproof windows overlooking the battlefield but the attackers wouldn't shoot because that would give away your position and then you might get shot, neither side wants to use WMD's (and the mind control side flat out refuses) and neither side built any defences for weapons they know the other won't use against them.
So the freewill side recruits humanity, then upon nearly winning the war realizes that it was a huge mistake, because humanity starts building its own ships to take resources from space to fund its own war efforts because they aren't going to stop, every nation on earth gets behind fighting a mind controlling alien threat pretty quickly (especially when the aliens invade in what is history's most disastrous invasion), and the first book ends with one of the main aliens wondering how long it'll be before humanity turns on itself again, or if they're going to make war with them (the free will aliens) afterwards.
Incidentally if anybody knows what book series I'm talking about, please tell me the title, I'd like to reread them.
I'm not entirely sure if this is correct but that sounds an awful lot like a book series by Alan Dean Foster. The trilogy was called The Damned I think.
The individual books are A Call to Arms, The False Mirror and The Spoils of War.
Everyone talk about aliens, other species, but we already have this in our history. When europeans first set foot in america, they saw barbarians, wild animals in skins of humans - alien to them. we exterminated them. with extreme prejudice.
Hundreds of years later, if we found people living on, say, Mars, we would likely do the same if we could.
So call your Arthur C Clark, Assimov, call your 4 chan commentors, but we are warmongers and always were warmongers, and just because we have peace currently does not mean we cant load the guns again. After all, Peace is that euphoric moment of silence, while everyone reloads.
P.S. i actually like both those authors and think they are amazing, this was a jest.
GodzillaGuy92 said:
So yeah, there's probably no way I'd be able to actually write it without the reader spotting the twist ending from a mile off, and absolutely no way I'd be able to avoid it being simplistic and preachy. Upon reflection, it could maaaybe work as a short story though.
Its been done before. i dont remember the name but there was a short story where two... well captain and someone else people discuss what happened. they talk about how their planet was destroyed, their god didnt help them, ect, and it feels like they are humans from a race anihilated by the alien race of sort.
And one of the closing lines would go about where they come from, and a response is "Some planet they call earth". it really turned the whole thing around and you coudl read it as a whole different story then.
This reminds me of when I saw a trailor for some alien invasion movie...made me want to make one where it seems pretty generic, but in the end the aliens win, and doesnt show them until the end and they all look human and say some cheesy thing like "Time to return to Earth". Also poking fun at aliens looking different, essentially that we humans invaded a planet near identical to ours...which would not be farfetched if we wanted to colonize a new world after ruining ours or something.
There was a book series about some aliens that scouted out the humans a few centuries ago, and when their invasion force actually arrived it was during WW2. They were shocked to see the incredible progress that happened in some 800 (I think) years, that took them almost 50 thousand years to achieve.
Then they started a war against WW2 Earth, with their military being about as advanced as what we have right now. The humans did lose some battles, due to fighting jets and what amounts to Main Battle Tanks with inferior equipment, but the superior usage of tactics and strategy lead to humans never really losing the war AND still continue fighting WW 2 . In only 30-40 years we reach the alien's military level completely and the battles turn into a series of curbstomp conflicts. Then sometimes 2010 Earth manages to send a spaceship that makes it to the alien world in just 6 years (took the aliens 400).
I believe it was called World War or something .
Well, look to Warhammer 40,000 for how Humanity deals with aliens. If they're big enough a threat, ignore/deal with them minimally to handle other threats. If they're weaker or do not have anything useful about them? Extermination and use the planet for their own species. Usefully? Make them slaves. Extremely stronger? Hope they get weakened by one of the other races out there before wiping them out.
Um, sorry no, I'm not looking to a boardgame/book series/video game line to determine human policy in an intergalactic nature. That assumes that we will simply disregard and ignore all the moral evolution we have made as a species, about what is right and wrong when dealing with other living beings. I doubt everyone on earth will have the same narrow minded, bigoted mindset as would be necessary to have a global policy like what you have described.
Another cool concept is the idea of humans being dangerous for their unpredictable nature. Last night, I watched Wings of Honneamise, and one of the cool things that stuck out to me was Shiro and Riquinni's discussion on leaving war torn earth behind to find peace among the stars.
This would be an awesome jumping off point for aliens fearing humans. As thousands of human extremists or groups with different opinions try to make it on their own in the galaxy, away from government or military control, imagine the nightmare it would be for aliens that happen to make first contact with these colony ships. One ship might hold a group of peaceful protesters. Another ship might be filled with racists or skinheads. And the aliens have no way of telling until it\s too late.
Imagine, an alien ship docking with a human transport, only to find out that the inhabitants are redneck gun enthusiasts who promptly storm the alien vessel and steal their technology.
If you think about human beings, we only really have empathy for other humans, and animals who are cute and fuzzy. I think that if we ran into an alien race who were all lizard people, or insectiod, or arachnid in nature that we wouldn't have too much of a problem with justifying killing them for their resources even if they were to be intelligent.
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And hell, even the 'empathy for other humans' bit has often been a bit of a stretch. Racism and other varieties of discrimination often seem so common now and throughout history that I think its the default for our species, requiring an active effort on the part of modern culture to suppress.
In any case, yeah, I don't think it'll take much for us to abuse another species entirely, particularly if they look like bugs or whatever. It'll take a good long while of cultural guilt after the fact to change that.
There's some depressing theory that species', in general, will always want to annihilate each other, because the consequence of not doing it when you're able to are just too terrible. If it takes you five-hundred years to get to a planet, then by the time you've reported back they may well have gone from primitive rock throwers to a credible threat or even worse, an overwhelming danger. Or from apes to angels, as they say.
I'd imagine that for us to invade and destroy another species, it would be because they were so different, so utter foreign, that it was impossible to live in the same Universe.
That was my favorite part of the 4Chan threads. The outsider perspective by aliens on just how alien we seem to them. It's a nice contrast to the arrogant "Elves are just better than you" condescending aliens. These are beings who fundamentally don't understand each other, and it inevitably leads to war. Like in Ender's game, how the Buggers didn't understand the concept of individuality and personal life.
And the very second they understand that each human is as much an individual as a Bugger queen the entire species goes apeshit with regret to the point of basically allowing their homeworld to be destroyed.
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. In only 30-40 years we reach the alien's military level completely and the battles turn into a series of curbstomp conflicts. Then sometimes 2010 Earth manages to send a spaceship that makes it to the alien world in just 6 years (took the aliens 400).
