Humans can't evolve.

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OutlawV

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TOO S0BER said:
Shoulda said that in your first post. Now who's flaming? Cause how am i supposed to know what you're talking about when you DONT say it. And then you fly off the handle with "Durr you're stupid and flaming because I didn't make clear what i meant to say in MY post"
Try reading what he does say.

Oh yes, and maybe it's because this thread is about DISEASES, MUTATIONS, and OTHER GENETIC DISORDERS that have to do with GENES and not CAR ACCIDENTS and other non-related-to-this-thread.
I thought it was about evolution and natural selection, that said, a creature too stupid to run from a predator, or look both ways before crossing, would be part of the process. Thus promoting more intelligent genes. Oh, and you don't have to CAPITALIZE the BIG WORDS, we're out of preschool now and also have italics. Stop flaming.

Uncompetative said:
Stephen Hawking.

Ok. I'll explain, because you're all thick...

Hyperevolution has supplanted evolution with the onset of language, oral tradition and the development of writing.

Memes not Genes.

Case in point: if the OP's hypothetical Huxley-esque world held sway an amniocentesis of Mrs Hawking may have lead to an abortion, or a social segregation of Stephen due to his ALS. Yet, it is because we live in a just society that doesn't immediately give up on the disabled that we can be surprised to find that some are merely physically disabled and can generate memes (replicatable ideas) that lead to progress.

How many great thinkers have been deaf, blind, schizophrenic, manic-depressive.

I invite the rest of this forum to suggest some names...
They aren't doing anything for evolution until they make babies, until then they're just intelligent irregularities.
 

cuddly_tomato

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corroded said:
cuddly_tomato said:
corroded said:
Alex_P said:
corroded said:
This thread is basically the first 5 minutes of Idiocracy.

Where stupid breeds, intelligences does not and on the whole the intelligence of the world inevitably drops.

Leading to the possibly conclusion that we have already hit a possible intelligence peak already.
And, like Idiocracy, it's based on half-remembered bits of ninth-grade biology and a poor understanding of "smart".

-- Alex
Aye, well Idiocracy has its flaws but it did make me laugh because the observation is sort of valid. The more intelligent families have less children, the lower classes in the UK at very least tend to pop them out as fast as possible.
And so those lower classes are obviously more successful than the "intelligent families" as they are more prevalent in the gene pool. Evolution never stops, it is folly to think so. Humans are changing for the better as they always will until extinction.
Skewed definition of success, as without the Intelligence from others they wouldn't be able to avoid Natural Selection.

I would not think that less intelligence would be deemed beneficial.
No, not skewed. Passing your DNA on = success. If you don't think so then it is you who have the skewed view of success.

Less intelligence can be extremely beneficial, ask any cockroach. Having said that I do not believe that lower classes have less intelligence.
 

OutlawV

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johnman said:
Dele said:
johnman said:
Dele said:
Our next step in evolution will propably be the better use of abundant energy many of us have on our weist. I vote for more brain power
The brain evolving even more would be the worst thing possible for humanity. read a book called the Andromeda strain. Its talks of how inefficent the brain is and how greedy for the bodys energy it is. It makes a reference to humanity possibly becoming exctinct as ours brains become so engery hungry we can no longer support them with limited reasources in the future.
Who says that we will have limited resources in the future?
Well we are running out of oil pretty fast.....
Boy am I glad I had my brain converted to run on porn steam.
 

beddo

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hypothetical fact said:
Since the current escapist fad is on gender and species I think this is fitting.

Humans can' evolve, we have too many people with too many random genes able to breed. Even when inferior humans would die off, medical science saves them so they can breed and spread their stupid throughout humanity.

The only way Humanity will evolve to be stronger, faster, smarter etc is to force the World's best and brightest to breed in an enclosed environment for several generations until we have a race of better people that can spread their favourable genes through out the gene pool. We already know that this will work because we have thousands of years of practice on dogs so all we need is public approval which won't happen, why won't the public approval?

The public won't approve because ethics and morals are geting in the way of progress; progress which could be easily made if we stop letting people breed with who ever they want rather than who is best for humanity.

I post this knowing full well that I will be flamed/banned but just know that when you whine your loss of faith in humanity, it is because you don't support forced breeding.

I think your point is contrived and poorly made. Your idea of 'controlled' evolution of the "best and brightest" results in a glaring oxymoron. To what end should they evolve? If the answer is to become better and more intelligent then at what point should they come out to breed with everyone else? At any point when they come out, according to your own ideas the population will stagnate at that level of evolution.

You have way too many assumptions about Natural selection, evolution, human understanding, human capabilities and our grasp of technology and science.

Firstly, we don't understand evolution. Why don't know why it happens, we're not even sure how it happens. As I'm sure you are aware we believe it's a consequence of natural selection. If a species cannot survive a certain environment then many member will die out. Those who adjust will survive and result in a species that is more able to withstand the dangers of its environment.

As we don't understand evolution how would we know which people should breed? You assume that being strong and smart are the way forward. What if in several generations time they come out and there has been a major change in the environment, such as extreme weather changes or a world wide influenza that they cannot cope with? The whole process will have been pointless.

Natural selection is far from a perfect process. It takes a phenomenally long time for these changes to occur. On top of all that there are so many external factors that can effect an environment in unexpected ways; meteor collisions, volcanoes, earthquakes which complex life cannot evolve for.


All this is a bit academic. Our technological, scientific and medical advances have raised us above the seemingly arbitrary natural selection and evolution. We have learnt to respond to environmental changes not through genetics but through technology. Not only can we deal with rapid changes we are learning how to actually control our environment.

Where there were once dangerous predators there are now entire cities with almost no wild life. We keep dangerous animal in captivity for entertainment and study. Many animals struggle to find water, we are able to transport it to where we want it. We don't have to hunt for food any more, we simply breed animal to kill, it's much more efficient.



It's completely ignorant to assume that forced breeding would be good for 'humanity'. Forced breeding would make us inhuman, both morally and ethically. I lose faith in humanity when people seek power over each other using violence or threats.

I lose faith in humanity when I hear about the horrific acts people do to one another. Murder and rape in society. Mass murder and horrific sexual abuse within war zones. Using white-phosphorous on civilians, shelling cities with children in. What you propose would just be another case of inhumane treatment of people for some misguided and arbitrary 'greater good' or 'advancement'.
 

FuckYouDad

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I believe in eugenics, of a very special kind.

If you base your ideal world on high school biology fueled by the rage you feel whenever you see a pick-up truck, just throw yourself off a cliff.
 

Uncompetative

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OutlawV said:
Uncompetative said:
Stephen Hawking.

Ok. I'll explain, because you're all thick...

Hyperevolution has supplanted evolution with the onset of language, oral tradition and the development of writing.

Memes not Genes.

Case in point: if the OP's hypothetical Huxley-esque world held sway an amniocentesis of Mrs Hawking may have lead to an abortion, or a social segregation of Stephen due to his ALS. Yet, it is because we live in a just society that doesn't immediately give up on the disabled that we can be surprised to find that some are merely physically disabled and can generate memes (replicatable ideas) that lead to progress.

How many great thinkers have been deaf, blind, schizophrenic, manic-depressive.

I invite the rest of this forum to suggest some names...
They aren't doing anything for evolution until they make babies, until then they're just intelligent irregularities.
Others have correctly established that humanity's evolution is less dramatic than when we were all out chasing Mammoths. It hasn't stopped, it is just that the mutations in the gene pool find that there are far less environmental niches in which they are ill-suited (and die out), or are better adapted than a rival (and become dominant). You could advance an argument that there are a lot of tall Black men in the National Basketball Association, but it isn't evolution until sons of Basketball stars start shooting hoops. Therefore, it is reasonable to ignore evolution and instead recognize the importance of hyperevolution: the communication and natural selection of ideas rather than physical traits.

The earth isn't flat, nor is it at the centre of the Universe. Yet people held these ideas in their heads until new ideas supplanted them. This is how progress is being made. Philosophy. Science. Invention. Culture. Politics. These are all just a bunch of competing Memes, evolving our society so fast (and not necessarily in a 'good' direction, remember evolution is adaptive not progressive) that it deserves to be called:

Hyperevolution.
 

BallPtPenTheif

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hypothetical fact said:
The only way Humanity will evolve to be stronger, faster, smarter etc is to force the World's best and brightest to breed in an enclosed environment for several generations until we have a race of better people that can spread their favourable genes through out the gene pool.
You are making a huge error here. Desired traits have nothing to do with evolution. Faster, stronger, and smarter won't amount to shit if you're not out there spreading your seed like a bunny rabbit.

Any trait that increases the chances of one's genetics to carry on is a superior genetic trait, period. Using Superman as a template for genetics is arbitrary and irrelevant.
 

OutlawV

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Jan 15, 2009
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Uncompetative said:
OutlawV said:
Uncompetative said:
Stephen Hawking.

Ok. I'll explain, because you're all thick...

Hyperevolution has supplanted evolution with the onset of language, oral tradition and the development of writing.

Memes not Genes.

Case in point: if the OP's hypothetical Huxley-esque world held sway an amniocentesis of Mrs Hawking may have lead to an abortion, or a social segregation of Stephen due to his ALS. Yet, it is because we live in a just society that doesn't immediately give up on the disabled that we can be surprised to find that some are merely physically disabled and can generate memes (replicatable ideas) that lead to progress.

How many great thinkers have been deaf, blind, schizophrenic, manic-depressive.

I invite the rest of this forum to suggest some names...
They aren't doing anything for evolution until they make babies, until then they're just intelligent irregularities.
Others have correctly established that humanity's evolution is less dramatic than when we were all out chasing Mammoths. It hasn't stopped, it is just that the mutations in the gene pool find that there are far less environmental niches in which they are ill-suited (and die out), or are better adapted than a rival (and become dominant). You could advance an argument that there are a lot of tall Black men in the National Basketball Association, but it isn't evolution until sons of Basketball stars start shooting hoops. Therefore, it is reasonable to ignore evolution and instead recognize the importance of hyperevolution: the communication and natural selection of ideas rather than physical traits.

The earth isn't flat, nor is it at the centre of the Universe. Yet people held these ideas in their heads until new ideas supplanted them. This is how progress is being made. Philosophy. Science. Invention. Culture. Politics. These are all just a bunch of competing Memes, evolving our society so fast (and not necessarily in a 'good' direction, remember evolution is adaptive not progressive) that it deserves to be called:

Hyperevolution.
Ah ha! I see what you mean now. While we aren't evolving physically, we are in the realm of ideas. Still, our physical brains can only go so far. We shall see if we are overrun by our own creations in the end =)
 

IndieRocker

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RedMenace said:
Look up "Idiocracy" a nice movie with a good explanation of what "Human Evolution" has become. If your too lazy I'll provide the description:

Thanks to science and such things as welfare even dumbest of the dumb can survive, and since they are dumb they reproduce like rabbits (more than 3 kids) without thinking of the impact a child will have on their life. Smart ones on the other hand limit their reproduction to a number that hey can support (1-3 on average). => Population of smart people will decrease with time and population of stupid will grow.
If your using this theory in 200 years earth will be rules by dumb, attractive (attractive because for obvious reasons ugly people arn't going to have as many children)humans
 

Lukeje

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Eggo said:
Why are we still talking about natural selection?
'Cos most people aren't aware that the theory of evolution has developed since Darwin originally formulated it.
 

cuddly_tomato

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Uncompetative said:
The earth isn't flat, nor is it at the centre of the Universe. Yet people held these ideas in their heads until new ideas supplanted them. This is how progress is being made. Philosophy. Science. Invention. Culture. Politics. These are all just a bunch of competing Memes, evolving our society so fast (and not necessarily in a 'good' direction, remember evolution is adaptive not progressive) that it deserves to be called:

Hyperevolution.
No, people just learn things. Evolution is a specific event that concerns the altering of a species. "Memes" is an unproven hypothesis which concerns itself with some concept of collective thoughts leading to fads. Yeah, fashions happen, and you get millions of people buying High School Musical DVDs even though it's crap. But that is hardly evolution and those fads never last more than a year or two.

Anyone remember Rubix cubes? Or those little rubber squids people used to wet then throw at walls and watch them crawl down? Or the Ninja Turtles? If "memes" are a relevant and real phenomena they are an afterthought of humanity. Todays cheap plastic and tomorrows garbage.

Lukeje said:
Eggo said:
Why are we still talking about natural selection?
'Cos most people aren't aware that the theory of evolution has developed since Darwin originally formulated it.
At last! Evolution isn't natural selection, and natural selection has not been proven yet.
 

Xelt

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I think, jumans can't evolve, due to the fact, if theres something we can't do, we attempt to build something which would enable ius to do it, therefore, removing the need of evolution.