Hurting animals for cultural/religious reasons

[KarmaTheAlligator]

No, you don't get it. If an animal gets abused, sure they can cry and fight a bit, but once they're dead, you don't see the others go on strike or explaining all over the news what happened in gruesome details, or even complaining at all against their companion's unfair treatment. Humans would do this and violently protest such treatment, which is why both types of cruelty aren't viewed the same.

Beat up a cat for the internet and you will probably feel differently. They will find you.

Once again, this will be a human reaction. Cats all over the world won't give a damn. Hell, cats in the same house won't give a damn.

Also, cats and other pets might produce the same reaction as human cruelty, but that's not true of most animals.

 

[TwiZtah]

Animal cruelty is one of the few crimes where if I see it, I won't have a problem with this person dying in a fire, preferabbly caused by me.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Animal cruelty is unjustifiable in any context, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TwiZtah]

Animal cruelty is one of the few crimes where if I see it, I won't have a problem with this person dying in a fire, preferabbly caused by me.

I always find this viewpoint a bit scary. It seems to suggest the person espousing it prefers animals to humans. Sure don't be nasty to animals but at the end of the day it's still just an animal, hurting an animal is nowhere near remotely as bad as hurting a human. A murderer is far more in need of self-started, cleansing fire than someone who chucked a puppy in a river.

How can a puppy ever had provoked you? A puppy can't understand right from wrong. I would say it's as bad as killing a kid, they are both innocent. A grown man/woman (or for that matter, a teenager) knows it's wrong to chuck a puppy in a river, condemning it to death by drowning.

Therefore, I will never have any sympathy or feel empathy towards an animal abuser, no matter the circumstances of his/her childhood or whatever. And I certainly would not care if he/her died in the way the animal died.

 

[rob_simple]

Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

We didn't "go for" shit. Things don't choose how they evolve. Don't act as though your good fortune of being born into a world where everything is handed to you on a platter is some sort of personal achievement.

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

Evolution doesn't have a will beyond survival, granted, but to facilitate that our species is supposed to eat meat because it's a massive source of protein amongst other things; one of the fundamental building blocks of every human being.

I eat meat to grow stronger and develop my body, I couldn't achieve nearly the same results on plant matter and supplements alone.

 

[TwiZtah]

Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

We didn't "go for" shit. Things don't choose how they evolve. Don't act as though your good fortune of being born into a world where everything is handed to you on a platter is some sort of personal achievement.

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

Evolution doesn't have a will beyond survival, granted, but to facilitate that our species is supposed to eat meat because it's a massive source of protein amongst other things; one of the fundamental building blocks of every human being.

I eat meat to grow stronger and develop my body, I couldn't achieve nearly the same results on plant matter and supplements alone.

there are plenty of resources with protein in them, and more protein/kg.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I find it quite ironic how many people voice an extreme abhorrence to the slightest form of suffering in non-human animals, but also willingly engage in the market for such things, perhaps ignorant to the realities of the origins and methods of obtaining their every day products.

 

[rob_simple]

Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

We didn't "go for" shit. Things don't choose how they evolve. Don't act as though your good fortune of being born into a world where everything is handed to you on a platter is some sort of personal achievement.

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

Evolution doesn't have a will beyond survival, granted, but to facilitate that our species is supposed to eat meat because it's a massive source of protein amongst other things; one of the fundamental building blocks of every human being.

I eat meat to grow stronger and develop my body, I couldn't achieve nearly the same results on plant matter and supplements alone.

there are plenty of resources with protein in them, and more protein/kg.

I'm not saying there isn't, but most of the vegetarian options don't contain as much fat and other essentials either. The bottom line is that while a vegetarian diet certainly won't kill you, it is completely unnatural as far as human evolution is concerned, because our bodies are designed for hunting/gathering (i.e. strength and speed) and our diet also has to take into account our size.

To match the benefits of meats in a vegetarian diet you'd either need several supplements or to eat a metric fuckton of food.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

That's not remotely what evolution is. We didn't deliberately choose to grow opposable thumbs, nor did we just decide to develop a larger frontal lobe. These traits came about through a combination of random mutation and natural selection. Since you have so much energy from your diet perhaps you could try focussing it on reading a book.

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

Slitting a cows throat isn't inhumane, inhumane is chopping off it's legs and eviscerating it while it's still alive.

I think how "humane" something is changes over time.
I find the throat slitting thing inhumane because we have better ways of killing them now, a clean bullet/shock to the head kills them instantly, better than slowly bleeding to death anyway :L

If a throat is slit properly, death is almost instantaneous. When done correctly, the jugular will be severed and the animal in question will lose consciousness incredibly quickly and will bleed out shortly thereafter.

 

[rob_simple]

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

That's not remotely what evolution is. We didn't deliberately choose to grow opposable thumbs, nor did we just decide to develop a larger frontal lobe. These traits came about through a combination of random mutation and natural selection. Since you have so much energy from your diet perhaps you could try focussing it on reading a book.

I never said we chose anything, I meant that a species will change through adaption to their environment and the superior will live and continue to evolve whereas the weaker members will die out.

Opposable thumbs developed because an ancestor of our species was born with that mutation and didn't suffer for it, but instead prospered; the brain developed just like any other bone, muscle or organ. I know it has nothing to do with choice, I was only being facetious (hence the quotation marks) because you were ignoring someones point to make them look like an idiot.

As I said, the human body is designed --has evolved-- to crave and function best with meat in the diet; forcing your body into a diet of supplements and plant matter alone is unnatural but you're argument seems to be that since we no longer have to live with meat in our diet then we absolutely should not and thus should abandon hundreds of years of evolution.

In regards to meat eating you might say 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' but I would say 'just because you don't have to doesn't mean you shouldn't.'

 

[manic_depressive13]

I never said we chose anything, I meant that a species will change through adaption to their environment and the superior will live and continue to evolve whereas the weaker members will die out.

Opposable thumbs developed because an ancestor of our species was born with that mutation and didn't suffer for it, but instead prospered; the brain developed just like any other bone, muscle or organ. I know it has nothing to do with choice, I was only being facetious (hence the quotation marks) because you were ignoring someones point to make them look like an idiot.

I merely pointed out some extremely stupid wording which suggested that animals deserve to get slaughtered because they didn't choose to develop their brains like we did, and instead foolishly went for claws and teeth- the idiots. I didn't ignore his point. He didn't have a point.

As I said, the human body is designed --has evolved-- to crave and function best with meat in the diet; forcing your body into a diet of supplements and plant matter alone is unnatural but you're argument seems to be that since we no longer have to live with meat in our diet then we absolutely should not and thus should abandon hundreds of years of evolution.

In regards to meat eating you might say 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' but I would say 'just because you don't have to doesn't mean you shouldn't.'

Our ancestors ate meat because they could not find suitable nourishment from plant matter alone. This is no longer an issue. We already abandoned hundreds (of thousands) of years of evolution when we developed medicines and machines to make up for what our bodies lack. We didn't evolve to work at desk jobs, but we do. I suppose we should all go back to living in the wild to validate evolution.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't eat meat just because we don't have to. I'm saying we shouldn't eat meat because it causes unnecessary pain and suffering. But honestly, I don't really give a shit what you do. You can stop trying to justify yourself to me now.

 

[rob_simple]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't eat meat just because we don't have to. I'm saying we shouldn't eat meat because it causes unnecessary pain and suffering. But honestly, I don't really give a shit what you do. You can stop trying to justify yourself to me now.

Justification implies that what I am doing is wrong; you have no right to make that judgement about me nor do I have the right to say it about you.

But yeah whatever, enjoy ignorantly telling people that they're morally bankrupt for eating meat and further smearing the reputation of vegetarians by making them look like fascist hate-mongers.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

I can't really seem to bad mouth an individual's culture anymore than they can bad mouth mine. It is just something that they do and have done for many generations. Many people can dislike it, but it won't do much in terms of changing it or stopping it altogether.

All I can say is to show your dislike in such rituals/customs by not being a part of it. It doesn't seem fair to persecute others for merely follow the traditions of their previous generations, especially when to some of those people that do not know anything else.

 

[TwiZtah]

Humans went for brains and thumbs instead of claws and teeth, and we won. We now have to actively regulate the amount of killing we do for fear that we will wipe other species out, simply for fun.

We didn't "go for" shit. Things don't choose how they evolve. Don't act as though your good fortune of being born into a world where everything is handed to you on a platter is some sort of personal achievement.

Actually, that's pretty much what evolution is: a species 'chooses' to adapt rather than face extinction and in doing so we came to be what we are today.

Evolution doesn't have a will beyond survival, granted, but to facilitate that our species is supposed to eat meat because it's a massive source of protein amongst other things; one of the fundamental building blocks of every human being.

I eat meat to grow stronger and develop my body, I couldn't achieve nearly the same results on plant matter and supplements alone.

there are plenty of resources with protein in them, and more protein/kg.

I'm not saying there isn't, but most of the vegetarian options don't contain as much fat and other essentials either. The bottom line is that while a vegetarian diet certainly won't kill you, it is completely unnatural as far as human evolution is concerned, because our bodies are designed for hunting/gathering (i.e. strength and speed) and our diet also has to take into account our size.

To match the benefits of meats in a vegetarian diet you'd either need several supplements or to eat a metric fuckton of food.

Wrong again, there isn't much of essential vitamins etc. in meat, in fish, yeah. Example of food that's rich in calories and protein, peanuts and most other nuts, these will also give you essential fats. The fat in meat is not always the good kind of fat, mostly it's not at all. Not anymore at least. Dairy products is a real good way to get protein, Whey and Cassein are both milk proteins.

I'm not vegetarian, just wanted to point out that we do not need meat, atleast not anymore.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

You really need to be more specific on what you're talking about here. I'll assume you mean things like halal (draining the animal of blood before consumption) which I'm really not against in any way. Cutting an animals throat sounds pretty bad but it's nothing compared to conditions they actually have to live in at most battery farms. Even worse are conditions in your average slaughterhouse.

Halal actually makes the meat safer to eat and if done right a fatal cut on the neck can cause loss of consciousness almost immediately and cause death within a few seconds. It might be killing an animal with religion in mind but it's also serving a purpose (food).

I'm not vegetarian, just wanted to point out that we do not need meat, atleast not anymore.

Well actually the vast majority of the world does require meat to survive. Yes, if you looked really hard you could probably suppliment your diet with other foods to make up for loss of protein and fats but for one, that isn't going to be as easy and it sounds. I know plently of people who can only put a small amount of time aside for meals. Throwing something in the microwave or hitting a drive-through is always preferable to them. They don't have the time to make special veggie-friendly meals that contain all the vital nutrients required for a healthy life.

Secondly and most importantly - it would cost significantly more money to do buy all those foods. Most people are not in the luxury of actually getting to choose anything they would like to eat. Mostly it's just whatever happens to be selling cheaply and meat just so happens to be pretty darn cheap.

And that's only counting for people who are lucky enough to live in modernised cities, where our food supplies are so bountiful that we can actually walk down and entire line of potential meals and pick-n-choose what we want. Most the world is not that fortunate, they eat whatever they have the oppertunity to eat. If that happens to be an animal then so be it.

so sure...You "could" go through an entire lifetime without eating meat and if you're fortunate enough to have that choice then fantastic. But don't forget that the great majority isn't really in that same position.

Plus meat tastes delightful and no amount of vegetarian imitations can ever come close to the real thing.

 

[rob_simple]

Wrong again, there isn't much of essential vitamins etc. in meat, in fish, yeah. Example of food that's rich in calories and protein, peanuts and most other nuts, these will also give you essential fats. The fat in meat is not always the good kind of fat, mostly it's not at all. Not anymore at least. Dairy products is a real good way to get protein, Whey and Cassein are both milk proteins.

I'm not vegetarian, just wanted to point out that we do not need meat, atleast not anymore.

I'm not saying that you can't do it otherwise (apparently Germany's strongest man is a vegetarian) but the majority of research I've read seems to indicate that the best diet to maintain an athletic build is a balanced one of both meats and greens, seeds etc because it's what our body is designed for.

I do actually agree with what you are saying, and I don't contest that we don't need meat to survive anymore, but what I take issue with is the idea that some sanctimonious berks think they are morally superior to those of us that choose to stick to a diet that a)works well and b)is in line with our own evolution just because they have chosen to live differently.

These are usually the same kind of people you find arguing that it's more humane to keep a person with no quality of life living on life support rather than terminate them and give them and their family some peace; often while chanting 'life is a gift!'