Hurting animals for cultural/religious reasons

[TwiZtah]

Animal cruelty is one of the few crimes where if I see it, I won't have a problem with this person dying in a fire, preferabbly caused by me.

I always find this viewpoint a bit scary. It seems to suggest the person espousing it prefers animals to humans. Sure don't be nasty to animals but at the end of the day it's still just an animal, hurting an animal is nowhere near remotely as bad as hurting a human. A murderer is far more in need of self-started, cleansing fire than someone who chucked a puppy in a river.

How can a puppy ever had provoked you? A puppy can't understand right from wrong. I would say it's as bad as killing a kid, they are both innocent. A grown man/woman (or for that matter, a teenager) knows it's wrong to chuck a puppy in a river, condemning it to death by drowning.

Therefore, I will never have any sympathy or feel empathy towards an animal abuser, no matter the circumstances of his/her childhood or whatever. And I certainly would not care if he/her died in the way the animal died.

Interesting answer! Does that still hold true for you if some good in the animal's death? If you have puppy in one hand and a child in the other and you have to kill one of them, would you'd struggle to know which one you'd kill, as in your eyes killing either one is as morally inequitable?

Or, to give a more real world scenario, you have a dying man and to save you have to kill 10 monkeys. You'd be saying "sorry mate, the monkey's lives are as valuable as yours?"

I really do struggle to balance an animal life in terms of value with a human's. I am in no way advocating animal cruelty, it is a horrific, inhuman crime but at the end of the day a puppy is just a puppy.

Ofcourse I would struggle with it, however, I would probably save the baby. I am human and will in those situations probably save the infant. You misunderstand, or maybe I wrote it badly. I think humans and animals have the same value (I might be biased towards pets), a human who just tortures for fun is no longer seen as a human to me and I won't care what happens to said person.

Conclusion, I hate when someone dies, or a treasured pet dies. If a human has made the crime of either torturing or murdering, this person deserves no less than what he dealt.

Wrong again, there isn't much of essential vitamins etc. in meat, in fish, yeah. Example of food that's rich in calories and protein, peanuts and most other nuts, these will also give you essential fats. The fat in meat is not always the good kind of fat, mostly it's not at all. Not anymore at least. Dairy products is a real good way to get protein, Whey and Cassein are both milk proteins.

I'm not vegetarian, just wanted to point out that we do not need meat, atleast not anymore.

I'm not saying that you can't do it otherwise (apparently Germany's strongest man is a vegetarian) but the majority of research I've read seems to indicate that the best diet to maintain an athletic build is a balanced one of both meats and greens, seeds etc because it's what our body is designed for.

I do actually agree with what you are saying, and I don't contest that we don't need meat to survive anymore, but what I take issue with is the idea that some sanctimonious berks think they are morally superior to those of us that choose to stick to a diet that a)works well and b)is in line with our own evolution just because they have chosen to live differently.

These are usually the same kind of people you find arguing that it's more humane to keep a person with no quality of life living on life support rather than terminate them and give them and their family some peace; often while chanting 'life is a gift!'

I concur, I keep a fit body and I eat meat. Balance is key. I have thought about going vegetarian, or atleast try it, but I think i'm gonna miss meat too much.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

I

Some animals are killed inhumanely for cultural or religious reasons. To be honest, I can't stand it. It doesn't matter what culture you're from, I don't agree with animals being killed without be stunned or otherwise making it humane as possible (I can see the contradiction, I'm not a vegetarian - what I ate tonight had to be killed either way so I could eat it).
But what are your thoughts? There are lots of things I do because of my culture that should be considered disgusting but is not - buying products mass-produced in sweatshops for example. Is it fair to slam another culture because it does not align with animal rights (at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

You are pretty hypocritical in your reasoning. Your either against eating animals or not, the mass production of meat has animals suffering regardless of religion. either eat meat or don't but don't complain about other people's actions while being unaware of your own. I like meat and know how it gets too my plate, if i could breed my own cattle without a license I wouldn't hesitate to slaughter and eat them, its pretty much in our nature to eat meat

(and no vegi's! its also in you nature although you have rejected that part of yourself like religious people reject logic.)

If you truly want animal suffering gone and at the same time want to feed the entire world population you should advocate eating insects (which are actually more nutritious then meat and they taste pretty good when prepared well).

I myself am far too concerned with the status of Humans on this dirt ball, too take any notice of captive animal suffering.

Nature isn't good. That eating meat is still in a vegetarian person's nature just makes it more of an achievement to become vegetarian - it makes it like giving up an addiction.

I think that our definition of addiction may differ....

 

[Cakes]

Some animals are killed inhumanely for cultural or religious reasons. To be honest, I can't stand it. It doesn't matter what culture you're from, I don't agree with animals being killed without be stunned or otherwise making it humane as possible (I can see the contradiction, I'm not a vegetarian - what I ate tonight had to be killed either way so I could eat it).

Lol, how about you take a look where the food you eat comes from. I can almost guarantee any animal slaughtered in accordance with Jewish or Islamic Law was treated significantly more humanely.

 

[Ampersand]

Killing animals for cultural reasons is basically just animal cruelty for funsies so it's pretty disgusting in my opinions. I'd generally hold anyone who participated in such an activity in the same category as your average psychopath : \.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Snip

Ok, let's get one thing straight: I'm in no way saying that animal welfare is pointless, only that most people think it is. And I never said animal abuse is ok, I just said we humans don't make as big deal out of it as we do with human abuse because of erroneous beliefs. Geez, way to put words in my mouth.

And yes, the cat abused would give a damn, as I said in one of my earlier posts, until it died anyway. What I was saying is that other animals around won't. And crows remembering abuse like that is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

As long as an animal isn't tortured or made to suffer unnecessarily while it is alive, I have no issue with how animals are butchered. Religious practises have a very relevant place in the world and the only two I know of, Kashrut and Halal, do not particularly have an issue here.

In fact, I would prefer one of those two than some of the more "humane" systems, such as using transquilisers. Using tranqs for example, while an animal is alive may result in an animal who doesn't feel anything when it is killed, but the other effect is that these chemicals are then sent around its body in its bloodstream.

I think that people's standards of "inhumane" may be more relevant than religious specifics. An animal being butchered quickly and cleanly is fine without the need for tranqs, electrocution and the rest of the nonsense animal activists might push for, in my opinion.

 

[Rowan93]

I

Some animals are killed inhumanely for cultural or religious reasons. To be honest, I can't stand it. It doesn't matter what culture you're from, I don't agree with animals being killed without be stunned or otherwise making it humane as possible (I can see the contradiction, I'm not a vegetarian - what I ate tonight had to be killed either way so I could eat it).
But what are your thoughts? There are lots of things I do because of my culture that should be considered disgusting but is not - buying products mass-produced in sweatshops for example. Is it fair to slam another culture because it does not align with animal rights (at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

You are pretty hypocritical in your reasoning. Your either against eating animals or not, the mass production of meat has animals suffering regardless of religion. either eat meat or don't but don't complain about other people's actions while being unaware of your own. I like meat and know how it gets too my plate, if i could breed my own cattle without a license I wouldn't hesitate to slaughter and eat them, its pretty much in our nature to eat meat

(and no vegi's! its also in you nature although you have rejected that part of yourself like religious people reject logic.)

If you truly want animal suffering gone and at the same time want to feed the entire world population you should advocate eating insects (which are actually more nutritious then meat and they taste pretty good when prepared well).

I myself am far too concerned with the status of Humans on this dirt ball, too take any notice of captive animal suffering.

Nature isn't good. That eating meat is still in a vegetarian person's nature just makes it more of an achievement to become vegetarian - it makes it like giving up an addiction.

I think that our definition of addiction may differ....

I said "like giving up an addiction" - meaning it isn't the same thing as giving up an addiction.

 

[Edible Avatar]

snip

Your whole argument is based on the fact that eating meat is(allegedly) wrong, and because we can survive without meat then we should.

No. I am making counterarguments because your arguments are absolute garbage. I never said eating meat was wrong, I noticed that you had some really bad arguments.

Why? if we can survive only on plants why can't we survive on animals as well? Not only is it a much better supply of nutrients but we're keeping their population down, cows don't spawn in from the ether, the fact that there is that much meat available is proof to how many animals are being born.

Prove it is better.

And this seems to go along with your utter lack of consideration before you speak, but their population is increased artificially because we breed them to eat them. So that argument is utter garbage.

Infact scientifically speaking, the fact that omnivores and carnivores even exist show that diets that involve meat is more beneficial, or else why would creatures even evolve into that kind of diet?

Argument from ignorance much? Science doesn't work with your utter lack of imagination. Here's a really obvious one that you should have been able to think of: In the past there was more scarcity, being able to eat a variety was more useful to survival. Doesn't mean eating meat is better.

see the underlined: The deer population in North America would explode and cause catastrophic damage to the ecosystem if they were not hunted to keep their numbers down.

see the bold: This could be worded more eloquently. You're better than that.

 

[TailstheHedgehog]

Some animals are killed inhumanely for cultural or religious reasons. To be honest, I can't stand it. It doesn't matter what culture you're from, I don't agree with animals being killed without be stunned or otherwise making it humane as possible (I can see the contradiction, I'm not a vegetarian - what I ate tonight had to be killed either way so I could eat it).

Lol, how about you take a look where the food you eat comes from. I can almost guarantee any animal slaughtered in accordance with Jewish or Islamic Law was treated significantly more humanely.

Lol, how about you stop assuming that I don't. I made no reference to any kind of fact that I don't know where my meat comes from - I know very well that the animals I eat are stunned and killed as humanely as possible. I said it's a contradiction that I'm not vegetarian but I still care about the welfare of animals killed for cultural/religious reasons.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

I

Some animals are killed inhumanely for cultural or religious reasons. To be honest, I can't stand it. It doesn't matter what culture you're from, I don't agree with animals being killed without be stunned or otherwise making it humane as possible (I can see the contradiction, I'm not a vegetarian - what I ate tonight had to be killed either way so I could eat it).
But what are your thoughts? There are lots of things I do because of my culture that should be considered disgusting but is not - buying products mass-produced in sweatshops for example. Is it fair to slam another culture because it does not align with animal rights (at least in Australia there is great concern about animal rights - the entire cattle trade to India was stopped last year temporarily because of it, but I'm not sure about much of the rest of the world.

You are pretty hypocritical in your reasoning. Your either against eating animals or not, the mass production of meat has animals suffering regardless of religion. either eat meat or don't but don't complain about other people's actions while being unaware of your own. I like meat and know how it gets too my plate, if i could breed my own cattle without a license I wouldn't hesitate to slaughter and eat them, its pretty much in our nature to eat meat

(and no vegi's! its also in you nature although you have rejected that part of yourself like religious people reject logic.)

If you truly want animal suffering gone and at the same time want to feed the entire world population you should advocate eating insects (which are actually more nutritious then meat and they taste pretty good when prepared well).

I myself am far too concerned with the status of Humans on this dirt ball, too take any notice of captive animal suffering.

Nature isn't good. That eating meat is still in a vegetarian person's nature just makes it more of an achievement to become vegetarian - it makes it like giving up an addiction.

I think that our definition of addiction may differ....

I said "like giving up an addiction" - meaning it isn't the same thing as giving up an addiction.

fair enough.

 

[Varil]

Well, I'm not going to read this thread on account of knowing landmines when I see them, but I'm going to respond to the OP at least.

It sounds callous...but I don't care if people are going to kill animals for cultural or religious reasons, as long as the creature dies quickly and isn't tortured, and they do *something* with the corpse. Kill a cow if you must, but at least make hamburgers afterwards. It's not nice, but honestly there are enough horrible things in the world that killing an animal isn't going to nudge much sympathy out of me as long as they aren't being purposefully inhumane about it.

 

[Keneth]

Thread is TL;DR so I'll just post my own beliefs. In my opinion, there are only 3 valid reasons to kill ANYTHING.

The first an most justified reason to kill is for food. We all have to kill to survive. Even vegetarians have to kill the plants they eat. This is the most fundamental law of nature. I have been a hunter and fisherman for most of my life. I have killed many animals to fill my own stomach. I've seen fear, panic, and pain in my prey. I did my best to end it quickly and mercifully. It didn't always work. The will to live is very strong and some animals simply refuse to let go of that last bit of life. It's unfortunate, but sometimes unavoidable.

The second reason is self-defense. Again this is just the way nature works. Kill or be killed. I've been fortunate to never have to kill in my own defense, however, if I had no other option, I'd kill an attacking animal/person to save myself. One could also argue that killing bugs/vermin is a form of self defense against disease and famine.

The third reason is mercy. If a creature is mortally injured, deathly ill, or otherwise facing a slow painful death, I have no qualms in putting it out of it's misery. This is the main reason I'm in favor of assisted suicide for the terminally ill.

In my opinion there are no other justified reasons to kill. I do not support cruelty/torture of any creature, at all, for any reason, religious or otherwise. If you must kill, do it as quickly, painlessly, and mercifully as possible.

 

[CrazyMedic]

I'm not very familiar with the subject, but how are the animals killed inhumanely?

Slitting a cows throat isn't inhumane, inhumane is chopping off it's legs and eviscerating it while it's still alive.

Hell, they might do that, in which case, correct me. Like I said, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject.

well I think that is the japanese do with dolphins, they heard a bunch of them into this cove and then block it off with nets and either just eviserate them with spears or they might just beat them to death with clubs.

I've honestly stopped caring when millions of us slaughter animals, painlessly or not, for our food anyway.

Animal sacrifice is retarded, though. But so is animal testing, and that's got nothing to do with cultural/religious practices.

why should an animals pain be disregarded when we have perfectly painless ways of killing an animal just because a bolt gun/shocker costs more money.