Hypocrisy, thy name be Wal*Mart (Selling ex-gay kid's book)

[Xan Krieger]

I don't understand the outrage here. Aren't there plenty of other books about stuff you disagree with that you don't spent time writing a forum about? So it's being sold at Wal-Mart, they have a book section and they are free to decide what books to put there. If you disagree with it then don't buy it.

 

[Krion_Vark]

First I was being sarcastic if you didn't notice that.
Second most of Christian Beliefs are taken from Paganism. But even Paganism took their stuff from other things.
But if you actually do go into the supernatural stuff in order to exorcise demons if they actually existed according to lore is that you have to chant it in Latin or the origin language which is older than Latin. Most people go with Latin since no one knows the Origin language.

The oldest known language ATM is Sumarian but even that isn't the oldest language. And no I am not talking about grunts and such.
First I know, when you respond seriously to sarcasm it's funnier for both of us. Second I know, most holidays and symbols taken from pagan belief systems as a way of hiding. And third? you didnt say third but I wanna say third, of course Paganism took from other things migration and belief evolution you're not gonna completely change= ). Greek to Roman even modern pagans take aspects from almost every religion in the world. If demons did exist, why trap themselves in flesh and become extremely apparent to everyone to be exorcised = P. Enochian ftw, was that what you were refering to? Not the actual Enochian made up stuff but the figurative. Shouldn't it be Hebrew if they are going for farthest back? Probably harder to master if the bar mitzvah sketches are any indication = P.

 

[Capslockbroken]

I continue to be fascinated when people's beliefs do not permit the possibility that one's sexual orientation can be changed. For instance, my co-worker honestly believes that every man who claims to have "converted" from gay to straight is lying, so as to be better treated by parents/society/what have you.

Me? I have no reason to doubt the personal testimony of a stranger I've never met. If someone says "I used to be gay; now I'm straight," and I call that person a liar with no evidence of my own, it would be just as foolish as if I believed that no one is really gay and anyone who claims to be is lying.

A lot of the 'cured' people end up getting caught in airport bathroom stalls receiving blowjobs from guys...that sort of makes us a bit sceptical about cure-claims.

Really? Which people are those? How many is "a lot"?

 

[Ampersand]

That was two years ago. Im not gay now.

You never know. You could have a relapse. or be a carrier.

It's not, no one choose who thier attracted to. It's the same as you're eyes being blue or your hair being black. There's no way of changing it. And there is no reason anyone should change it.

I know. I didn't choose my sexuality, either. Read my statement more as a "how do they make sense of this?" Rather than any actual belief it could be true.

Groovy.

 

[Something Amyss]

I love how your treating it like a disease.

I love how you're treating it seriously, despite my self-deconstruction.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't understand the outrage here. Aren't there plenty of other books about stuff you disagree with that you don't spent time writing a forum about? So it's being sold at Wal-Mart, they have a book section and they are free to decide what books to put there. If you disagree with it then don't buy it.

So then why are you posting? How is that not doing the same thing?

 

[Enigma6667]

..Yeah, religious fundamentalists wanting attention. Just ignore them, Wal-Mart is a known panderer to all the lowlifes and lesser intellectuals of society.

Quoted for truth. Wal*Mart is like the Michael Bay of stores.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Huh, he was lured into same-sex pornography and homosexual experimentation.

I hate to be the one to point this out to him, and I'm sure he knows better than I, but

EXPERIMENTATION DOES NOT MAKE ONE GAY

Also,

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HOMOSEXUALITY

Also

NO TRULY LOVING GOD WOULD SHUN ANY OF HIS CHILDREN, NO MATTER WHAT

And I suppose finally

SHUT UP AND GO BACK TO UTAH!

(I am not here claiming that Utah is a state which has a high propensity of crazy Bible bashers, but Brigham University is in Utah, so I am making a pun based around the place he says he was lured into homosexuality.)

 

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

This shit shal not pass!
Why does this stuff get allowed to be sold, yet when anyone says anything against it they are burned alive.

Good question. And I shall respond with a question my self,

When shit like that is allowed to get sold why is it we can't sell things that actually educate people, as opposed to twisting their minds? Why can't we sell books that truly explain homosexuality.

 

[Xan Krieger]

I don't understand the outrage here. Aren't there plenty of other books about stuff you disagree with that you don't spent time writing a forum about? So it's being sold at Wal-Mart, they have a book section and they are free to decide what books to put there. If you disagree with it then don't buy it.

So then why are you posting? How is that not doing the same thing?

And just when you think you got me I can totally pull a half assed reason out of my ass.

Well this thread is about hyprocrisy, is it not?

 

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

Hi, I am from Europe, you know, the country that isn't run by christianity.

Why can't you guys get it through your thick skulls, that you are BORN homosexual, not that you BECOME one ?

It is in the animal kingdom, and it is in humankind.

Get over it.

Ugh. You Europeans make me sick with your open minded civilians, your disgusting health care (which will insure I can keep my house in the case that I have a heart attack) and your general acceptance of other people.

Nah, I'm obviously just kidding. I agree that people are incredibly thick but I'm afraid I disagree about your statement on how 'Europe is not controlled by Christianity' when the very pope him self resides in Italy.

No one understand how great the bible truly is. The religious people are using it wrong and anyone that isn't religious we don't understand how truly great an invention it is. It's a thick book, so instead of reading it we should grab one and use it to knock some sense into some brain dead twats :3

 

[MetroidNut]

People? Behaving differently than us? HERESY

 

[Capslockbroken]

Just to get it out of the way: If the people who wrote this book were in front of me right now, I'd probably spit in their face after drinking some grape soda. I absolutely hate people that treat homosexuality as a disease that can be cured. It is a genetic code that can no more be changed than your skin color.

If only the people you hate could learn to be as tolerant as you are. I know, maybe you should track down the people you hate and spit in their face. If that doesn't teach them not to be intolerant, then you could try spitting mashed potatoes at the people you hate. Remember, only plenty of hate can make the world better.


So... It doesn't look like the authors of the book said or implied that they hated gay people- and I'll bet dollars to donuts they don't promote spitting at them, or harming them in any other way. But that's okay, you should just reassure yourself that everyone who you disagree with are bigots, and you are not. And whatever you do, don't open a dictionary to the word "hypocrisy".

 

[YukoValis]

Ok......You do know that this actually has absolutely nothing to do with games though, right?

I mean really....Nothing. I really hate how about 80% of this site looks at every current event in terms of "How can I relate this to oppression of gaming as an art form?" and not in terms of it's own discussion value, of which there is plenty.

By the way, it's called Freedom of Speech. She's allowed to write it, and they're allowed to sell it, no matter how wrong it may be.

It's in the "off topic discussion" forum. Look more closely next time.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Ok......You do know that this actually has absolutely nothing to do with games though, right?

I mean really....Nothing. I really hate how about 80% of this site looks at every current event in terms of "How can I relate this to oppression of gaming as an art form?" and not in terms of it's own discussion value, of which there is plenty.

By the way, it's called Freedom of Speech. She's allowed to write it, and they're allowed to sell it, no matter how wrong it may be.

It's in the "off topic discussion" forum. Look more closely next time.

I....Never said it was?

Read the OP again. Look more closely this time.

 

[TheOtherDaniel]

Even if you don't consider the moral or Spiritual peril, homosexuality is a very risky and unhealthy lifestyle. If I am concerned for people; not being afraid OF them but in fact afraid FOR them, I don't see how you can label is stupid, or unloving, or ignorant.

To be frank, sir, I do believe that is a load of crock. Do you have citations to support your entire post?

Yes, but I left them out for the purposes of brevity. But since you asked:

Most of the data I referred to comes from the Massachusetts Youth risk behaviour survey, which you can wade through on their website. Gay marriage has been legalised in Massachusetts, and apparently it has had no impact on the suicide rate of homosexual teens.

There are numerous other studies supporting this. The reports described in the following link:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=255614

place homosexual lifestyle as a greater risk factor than smoking, shortening the average lifespan by 24 years!

Here are some more websites with info referring to various studies:
http://depression.about.com/b/2008/09/23/homosexuality-strongly-linked-to-depression-and-suicide.htm
http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/media/releases/2008/mr-08-165.html
(The last article theorises that the reason teen pregnancy is higher is due to discrimination and abuse, but Massachusetts found the same thing, and they're tolerant and accepting there.)

So there's a few websites to get you started. Try plugging "Homosexuality", "Mental health", "suicide" "teen pregnancy" in various combinations into Google or your search engine of choice.

I've purposely selected secular websites, to be above reproach on the matter, but logically there is always going to be bias in an article, and stating that you won't read an article that has a bias you don't agree with simply highlights that you're close minded. After all, is a militant homosexual group going to post links regarding these issues on their website if it doesn't fit with their agenda?

But the data is there and, although it has been linked with a lack of acceptance, data from areas where homsexuality is accepted suggest this is not the case and is, hence, unsubtantiated speculation. It's rarely the reason given for attempted suicides, certainly.

 

[Kiju]

Just to get it out of the way: If the people who wrote this book were in front of me right now, I'd probably spit in their face after drinking some grape soda. I absolutely hate people that treat homosexuality as a disease that can be cured. It is a genetic code that can no more be changed than your skin color.

If only the people you hate could learn to be as tolerant as you are. I know, maybe you should track down the people you hate and spit in their face. If that doesn't teach them not to be intolerant, then you could try spitting mashed potatoes at the people you hate. Remember, only plenty of hate can make the world better.


So... It doesn't look like the authors of the book said or implied that they hated gay people- and I'll bet dollars to donuts they don't promote spitting at them, or harming them in any other way. But that's okay, you should just reassure yourself that everyone who you disagree with are bigots, and you are not. And whatever you do, don't open a dictionary to the word "hypocrisy".

Hypocrisy doesn't immediately make things right or wrong, does it? Last time I checked, it doesn't.

They may not be implying that homosexuality is something that deserves a stoning (though there are quite a few that do), but they are promoting the thought that homosexuality is a disease; something that can be cured. Something that strict adherence to some poorly translated text written in a book full of myth and tall tales. That it will somehow magically cure the "disease" and make the child "normal" again.

That's the point. They are saying that being a homosexual is not normal. That it isn't something to be accepted, or tolerated, and is a blemish that should be removed from the face of the Earth using some good ol'fashioned religious zit-cream (horrible analogy aside). That's my point in fact; is that they're trying to pass it off as something that can be removed, and their child "saved" by their deity. It isn't.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=255614

Quoted from the links themselves:

"Drs. Paul and Kirk Cameron of the Family Research Institute revealed in 2007 that research shows that the lifespan of a homosexual is on average 24 years shorter than that of a heterosexual."

The FRI is a known anti-homosexual "Research Institute" in which has pro-Christian/Creationist leanings, sir. Your article is not secular in nature citing these pseudo-"scientists".

"Dr. Rick Fitzgibbons, a psychiatrist and member of the Catholic Medical Association, says there is evidence that homosexuality is itself a manifestation of a psychological disorder accompanied by a host of mental health problems, including "major depression, suicidal ideation and attempts, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, conduct disorder, low self-esteem in males and sexual promiscuity with an inability to maintain committed relationships.

Fitzgibbons said the American Psychological Association, which is known for its support of homosexual "marriage," ignored the evidence he presented that homosexuality presents significant danger to psychological health."

And yet, he offers no cited evidence himself, but instead makes a list of several mental and physical health issues, and implies homosexuality is accompanied by all of these. I have a few homosexual friends myself, and I know them well. None of them suffer from such conditions.

The irony is rather delicious here.

http://depression.about.com/b/2008/09/23/homosexuality-strongly-linked-to-depression-and-suicide.htm

"While the study could not answer why homosexuality is linked to depression, lead researcher Michael King speculated that is most likely due to the lifelong stresses caused by the discrimination and rejection that homosexuals and bisexuals suffer from."

No. Fucking. Duh.

If society was more accepting of homosexuality, we wouldn't have these issues.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/media/releases/2008/mr-08-165.html

Still no citations, simply offering up a fair amount of known mental issues that any sexuality suffering pre-dormant health issues, anxiety, or intense discrimination (for any reasoning) can develop over time.

I've purposely selected secular websites, to be above reproach on the matter, but logically there is always going to be bias in an article, and stating that you won't read an article that has a bias you don't agree with simply highlights that you're close minded. After all, is a militant homosexual group going to post links regarding these issues on their website if it doesn't fit with their agenda?

I don't trust pro-Christian websites dealing with homosexuality because of Biblical quotes (the Bible is not citation of evidence for scientific claims) followed by known ant-homosexuality "Research Institutes" citing pseudo-science is not real science. If a truely secular source stated something otherwise than homosexuality being not quite genetic and more dealing with mental health? I'd be reluctant, but with enough evidence, it would be considered nonetheless.

None of your "secular" sources are at all secular, considering most of them quote the Catholic Medical Association and the Family Research Institution, which both have evidence anti-homosexuality (in general) stances.

But the data is there and, although it has been linked with a lack of acceptance, data from areas where homsexuality is accepted suggest this is not the case and is, hence, unsubtantiated speculation. It's rarely the reason given for attempted suicides, certainly.

No data was cited in those articles, or at least any relevant and mostly unbiased sources were.

But I shall concede, the debate involving homosexuality can not factually come to any absolute conclusion yet.

 

[martin's a madman]

Anyone else think that if the homosexual community made a statement that they refuse to be married out of protest, then the same groups opposing homosexual marriage now, would instead be trying to force gays to marry?

It just seems those groups try to do exactly the opposite of what homosexuals want, without thought to what it is.