"I always let the Vanguard die."

[Azo Galvat]

I play Vanguard pretty often (especially since I finally got my asari vanguard), but I only play with friends, so I don't encounter this issue. As long as we all survive the wave, no one cares that I killed everything with the geth shotgun.

And if I do play with randoms, I revive people if I can, regardless of class. I'd rather live through the wave than be vindictive.

 

[JamesCG]

I play a human female vanguard (Because I did in the demo.) Do I like my biotic charge + Nova? Yes, Yes I do. I never charge an enemy with low health/shields because it's typically pointless when I could snipe them with a bloody shotgun. I'll charge into a group of 3 - 6 enemies and then Nova, and on Bronze I usually take out the entire group. If I end up stealing kills, I don't do it intentionally.

Someone goes down? I charge to help them. I go down? I usually get help, unless the team is horrible. I never go down in an unreachable area. I make sure of that. Sometimes I have though, because the game has lagged and not activated my charge out.

I haven't encountered the "oh god vanguard horrible die die" sentiment yet, even though I apparently play like 'that guy' because I use my biotic charge + Nova. I saw someone say that krogans need the melee for their rage.

I need the charge for my shields.

I don't exclusively play vanguard- This one's just level 19 and I want it to hit 20. :I

 

[rje5]

I don't understand why people care if someone takes your kill. It's all shared experience isn't it? If the vanguard does well, the team does well. A good mix of assists and kills for everyone does bump up the total, but if he get 200 for a kill and you get 100 for an assist, everyone on the team gets 300, so what's the big deal? The truth is, letting him die hurts the team more than anything else, because there are less people to help accumulate points for the team. The only thing that should prevent you from healing anyone on your team is if you can't do it without going down yourself.

 

[Zen Toombs]

[killstealing vanguard...]

So, Escapists, my question is this: Do you let the vanguard die? If not, what tactics do you adopt to stay competitive with one?

For the most part, XP is shared so there isn't really a thing called "killstealing". Work as a team, even with randoms.

It is fun to be on top though, so as for how I stay on top even with vanguards - if it's a good human vanguard on silver or bronze, there's no point. I just shoot for second. If it's a decent or non-human vanguard, I just play Engeneer or Asari Adept like I usually do, focusing on a powers build, and I always end up near the top. Dunno how.

 

[Robert632]

Vanguards is the only class worth playing. Anyone who lets them die are blasphemers.
Snip

That or they won't walk into the large squad of enemies the Vanguard is always mucking around with.

 

[rje5]

Also, really? What about having fun as a team? The vanguard class is supposed to work like a guy that jumps around a lot. If you are not having fun then play the single player and select a class other than Vanguard because that guy you are letting die so that you can get more points is certainly not having fun

Let´s do it again, because apparently this is really hard to understand:
I don´t care about points,
I care about having fun.
If a Vanguard is played so aggresively counter to what the rest of the teams tries to do (for example playing defensively and holding positions, rather then running around) I let him die instead of forcibly accomodating his style of play.
Strange enough, I haven´t been reprimanded by any team I´ve played with ever, while Vanguards have been repeatedly thrown out.
So I somewhat doubt that I´m the problem in this situation.

But that doesn't necessarily mean vanguards. If any class was off doing his own thing counterproductive to what the team was doing I'm assuming you would let them die. The question was about vanguards. It shouldn't matter the class, if a teammate is close and you can heal them, you should.

 

[Rikkano]

It's a team game/scores don't matter: Different strokes for different players. I generally go into quickplay alone, so I play for the scoreboard to keep myself entertained. Even if you don't, however, the scoreboard is a good indicator of each member's performance. I had at least one game with one vanguard who was leading the scoreboard by a sizable amount, but was a much lower N7 rank than the rest of us. One of the others quipped "Vanguard's leading the boards. Not because he's good. Because he's a vanguard".
It's also a good indicator that the class can easily take the "team" out of "team game" and turn it into "vanguard and some blokes" game.

I think bioware should go the Resistance way with this, and give points for something besides kills. For example as you mentioned with your Engineer, what if you got points when the drone recieved fire?

In a game where kills isn't everything that counts it is stupid to only give points for the kills.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's a team game. You should totally let other people get all the kills because it's a team game. Wanting to get some kills is not team playing.

 

[Smiley Face]

A variety of assorted points:

As a Vanguard, if you can charge, you usually HAVE to Charge - because it recharges your shields, it keeps you mobile and out of the line of fire, and if you don't you will probably die. And if the only target is that enemy sniper you're eyeing, it's a question of survival for us, and we may not have time to register that, because we're paying attention to whether there's enough tough enemies there that we should roll instead.

And yeah, sometimes it can seem like we're taking all the kills, but there's many an occasion where I actually have to carry a bad team, and once I go down, everyone else goes down FAST - so you may not realize it, but you may need us.

And I do go out of my way to revive people, and I do complete objectives more than the average player, when I have to stay in a hacking zone, I quit charging and use my pistol, and I'm always at the LZ by the 20 second mark. I'll usually come out with the 50 Biotic kills as well as the 20 Headshots. I've seen Infiltrators that don't do objectives and Vanguards that die every single round - there are a lot of players who are far, far worse than a Good Vanguard, so cut us some slack, eh?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

They are close quarters combatants. They usually die near other enemies. It's not worth the risk trying to revive them because you'll probably die as well.

 

[Swyftstar]

If they know what they are doing, then it's fine. They can be the point and the group can follow them and do nice sweep and clears. But most of the ones I've seen just run around padding their score. They fudge up biotic explosions and tech bursts, they ignore objectives and I had one last too busy night running around killing stuff to get back in time for full extraction. So I let them die too, especially if you are all the way on the other side of the map.

 

[Zeldias]

No, but getting so bent out of shape you have to be passive-aggressive to your own teammate is.

EDIT: Thread moves fast. Ignore this.

 

[The Heik]

So, Escapists, my question is this: Do you let the vanguard die? If not, what tactics do you adopt to stay competitive with one?

Well seeing as I usually play a Vanguard, I don't let myself die if I can help it

Though generally speaking I tend to avoid trying to kill steal unless either I or one of my allies is going to die if I don't. Mostly I use the Charge and Nova to clear out packs of enemies who'd normally be a hassle to fight, letting my allies focus on the enemies who are tough enough to survive. Otherwise, I use my trusty Mattock to fill my targets full of nice big holes.

 

[Artemicion]

For the most part, XP is shared so there isn't really a thing called "killstealing". Work as a team, even with randoms.

I keep seeing comments like these come up and it's a bit bothersome.

Yes, I and everyone else fully realize that the scoreboard does not reflect your final experience outcome. Nor does it have any affect on your character. It's a team game, and everyone must work together.

Thank you for repeating that. We understand.

The issue is that even if you don't care about your own score, other people, more competitive people, do. The scores exist, in part to see how much you're doing in relation to the rest of your team. If the vanguard (or, as many people have pointed out, infiltrator) is 20-30k above everyone else by end game, that means that they got the brunt of the game's kills.
If you're okay with that, great! More power to you. But I bet the rest of your team would have liked to get a few of those points, too.

Someone else mentioned that they go AFK when a human vanguard is in play, and that serves to show another point, that a vanguard doing everything is boring for the rest of the team.
Yes, they're getting us experience. My character will get at least 130k XP. Wonderful. But I would have much rather fought for it myself. I didn't join this game so I could sit back, or have a vanguard obscure my sights. I joined to shoot at things, and generally have them die in response.

And just because the game is cooperative, doesn't mean you can't steal kills. You most definitely can. I mentioned this in page one.

Lastly, to respond to the "it's a team game" portion of the quote. I already covered this on page one as well, but I'll be more than happy to reiterate: If the vanguard is doing everything, zipping around the map quicker than any class, killing everything before the rest of the group has a chance, it stops being a team game. Generally, you are not working as a team when you charge+nova your way across the map.


Anyways, I read a few times that any stolen kills are entirely unintentional, and I sympathize: I may be making it sound like the vanguards are the worst thing in the multiplayer (those are Banshees) but I really DO like the class, and I occasionally play it.


(PS, I was expecting the "if you don't like it go play single player" argument, and am delighted to see it has only come up once so far. It's a non-argument and doesn't hold water.)

 

[Greg Waller]

ffs, the only things that matter are:
- are you winning the wave
- are you winning the game
- full extraction (some extra points? yes please!)

QFT

Also, survival bonuses are nice (ie. everyone survives all rounds)

Regarding this "killstealing" bullshit... Would you rather me hold back and potentially lose the wave because I was letting Joe Blow get some points? Or would you want (expect?) me to go balls out every wave for the whole match until we win nice toys?

Yeah, I thought so. Balls-to-the-wall it is. I'll keep KILL SECURING until we get our loots.

Cheers.

 

[Dastardly]

So, Escapists, my question is this: Do you let the vanguard die? If not, what tactics do you adopt to stay competitive with one?

I think the bigger issue is that we feel this need to compete with our teammates. Hey, I do it, too... but I'm starting to kind of regret how much time I've spent in that frame of mind, because it has killed a lot of fun.

(As to vanguard charging into the fray and making merry, you might consider the definition of "vanguard" -- "those leading the way." They are intended to be the tip of the spear, to create a break in the enemy position for the rest of you to exploit.)

 

[Artemicion]

Regarding this "killstealing" bullshit... Would you rather me hold back and potentially lose the wave because I was letting Joe Blow get some points? Or would you want (expect?) me to go balls out every wave for the whole match until we win nice toys?

Yeah, I thought so. Balls-to-the-wall it is. I'll keep KILL SECURING until we get our loots.

Personally I'd rather you didn't decide to be the only player on the team. You don't need to go "balls to the wall" to win a match, and if you do, there's a pretty good chance you'll end up looking like an overeager tosser.
I also can't believe you just played "kill securing" straight. I suppose it serves to prove my point, though.

Anyway: I've read almost every post in this thread and the general consensus seems to be "I pick everyone up when I can, but if the vanguard has gotten himself downed in a bad spot, I won't risk it." I'm actually glad to hear this. I mulled it over for a bit and decided that, no, I don't agree with letting the vanguard die just because he may be detracting my fun.

 

[eventhorizon525]

I've actually had very good experiences with vanguards. Had a random gold with 2 human vanguards, a quarian infil, and me as a human sentinel. I just kept a constant warp to detonate on the heavy units and watched the fireworks unfold (and still ended up with top score).

I have had an issue with people trying to kick me just for being a human sentinel, and god does that get annoying. Yes, it is just warp and throw for powers (tech armor is incredibly situational), but with a low weight that basically means a throw every second or a detonation every 4, and I've only seen a few people who can actually keep up with that.

EDIT: Also, I don't understand why people wouldn't pick someone up unless it is actually impossible. There have been a few times I was within sight distance of someone down, but 2 phantoms + support in the way means even if I tried, I'd just die, so I do my best to either CC the area or clear it in time for either me or someone else to get in there later.

 

[Swyftstar]

I've actually had very good experiences with vanguards. Had a random gold with 2 human vanguards, a quarian infil, and me as a human sentinel. I just kept a constant warp to detonate on the heavy units and watched the fireworks unfold (and still ended up with top score).

I have had an issue with people trying to kick me just for being a human sentinel, and god does that get annoying. Yes, it is just warp and throw for powers (tech armor is incredibly situational), but with a low weight that basically means a throw every second or a detonation every 4, and I've only seen a few people who can actually keep up with that.

Why the hell would they kick you for being a human sentinel?! That class is a biotic explosion machine.