I am against fat acceptance
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I know, how hard it is, to have and hold a body like mine and i don't want to pay my social insurance for fatties, who are to lazy, to bring in energy in our system by moving their asses. Lets discriminate them until they understand and get healthy.
I'll probably accept it too if it happened and be even more lazy. I'm not so lazy as to have one of those things they have in america to get around walking. I still walk when needed and I personally feeel that it's my fault being obease, however my dad is obese as are alot of people down his family tree.
MAybe it is genetics, maybe it is some kind of cirus that's heretitory. I don't know, but I know that what always happens in my family is we start out slim when young, but once we get past 7 we "Fill out".
I agree though. Having acceptence in such a way will be a double edged sword. I think it would be good in the fact people shouldn't be discriminated for whatever reason, however if this does come to pass, alot of people will give up on the diets and on all hope to lose weight.
MAybe it is genetics, maybe it is some kind of cirus that's heretitory. I don't know, but I know that what always happens in my family is we start out slim when young, but once we get past 7 we "Fill out".
I agree though. Having acceptence in such a way will be a double edged sword. I think it would be good in the fact people shouldn't be discriminated for whatever reason, however if this does come to pass, alot of people will give up on the diets and on all hope to lose weight.
I just skimmed through most of the posts on account of me finding all arguments stated irrelevant on account of being arguments. So I'm sorry if I missed any post saying exactly what I'm about to say.
You people seem to be arguing about whether or not fat people have themselves to blame. That's completely irrelevant. If it's something they can't change, then it's the same as discriminating a cripple. If it's a "choice", then it's the same as discriminating a guy with a mohawk haircut. Seriously, how does it even affect you guys if someone else is fat? Sure, THEY might die prematurely or some crap, but that's not really your problem, is it? As long as the fat people don't come and sit on you, it's not your problem to try to solve. Leave them alone, it's none of our business what they do with their weight anyway.
You people seem to be arguing about whether or not fat people have themselves to blame. That's completely irrelevant. If it's something they can't change, then it's the same as discriminating a cripple. If it's a "choice", then it's the same as discriminating a guy with a mohawk haircut. Seriously, how does it even affect you guys if someone else is fat? Sure, THEY might die prematurely or some crap, but that's not really your problem, is it? As long as the fat people don't come and sit on you, it's not your problem to try to solve. Leave them alone, it's none of our business what they do with their weight anyway.
I think you give them too much credit. Few people are able to ditch an addiction just by pure willpower. I've always hated the type of argument "oh sure. The junkies could just stop being junkies.. duh". It's not that simple. It might seem so from your standpoint, but i doubt anybody choses to be addicted.RYjet911 said:
And yes. helping people and trying to prevent negative social heritage IS the responsibility of the government.
Those are very dangerous floodgates to open, to discriminate against anyone who doesn't fit the current mold of "ideal".
Is it too much to ask for people of all shapes, sizes and colors to be treated with the respect due to our fellow human beings? (Rhetorical. We all know the answer is a resounding "YES".)
Is it too much to ask for people of all shapes, sizes and colors to be treated with the respect due to our fellow human beings? (Rhetorical. We all know the answer is a resounding "YES".)
I don't get these people who say "Oh losing weight is so haaard...", well:
I have a condition and they needed me to lose weight before they could treat it. So I was basically eating crap -because we were poor and couldn't afford decent, healthy food- and wasn't excercising because I had been ill for a long time and I got really out of shape. But about 8 months ago I started on a diet where I just ate healthier stuff and took the dogs out on walks 2 or 3 times a week and the weight dropped off really easily (but slowly).
It's because of all of these shitty celebrity diets that fool you into thinking that if you'll eat like a hamster you'll lose weight. Whereas if you just stop eating greasy, unhealthy shit all the time and go for gentle walks often you will lose weight and you will keep the weight off. I blame celebrities and those shitty trailer-trash magazines people read.
I don't blame the poor misguided blimps, so I tolerate them. Plus I was a blimp too so I know what it's like.
If only people would stop advertising weight loss as a scary, difficult and confusing thing to do we wouldn't have this problem.
I have a condition and they needed me to lose weight before they could treat it. So I was basically eating crap -because we were poor and couldn't afford decent, healthy food- and wasn't excercising because I had been ill for a long time and I got really out of shape. But about 8 months ago I started on a diet where I just ate healthier stuff and took the dogs out on walks 2 or 3 times a week and the weight dropped off really easily (but slowly).
It's because of all of these shitty celebrity diets that fool you into thinking that if you'll eat like a hamster you'll lose weight. Whereas if you just stop eating greasy, unhealthy shit all the time and go for gentle walks often you will lose weight and you will keep the weight off. I blame celebrities and those shitty trailer-trash magazines people read.
I don't blame the poor misguided blimps, so I tolerate them. Plus I was a blimp too so I know what it's like.
If only people would stop advertising weight loss as a scary, difficult and confusing thing to do we wouldn't have this problem.
well, as mentioned, I don't think the families has really got the resources necessary to lift that task. An example on how I would use government legislative power, is to raise taxes on unhealthy food, and use the money to subside greens and fruits, and at the same time require schools to have healthy free meals. (would likely require more money than what's gained from aforementioned raise in tax on sweet/fat products, but hey, we're talking hypothetically here) The central point of this, is to ensure at least a minimum of healthy meals to kids, and make it easier for parents to switch to a more healthy diet for the whole family. (thus in the end involving the family)Jaythulhu said:
I think it is society's responsibility to prevent the obesity epidemic and prevent negative social heritage.
Well, yeah, for sure. I don't think it would be quite that simple though. There are bound to be many families that still buy junk for dinner, no matter the cost. A big mac here, for example, has gone from 3.50$ to 4.50$ in the last 6 months. It hasn't slowed the business at my local maccas any though. There is only so much a government can do. In the end, the onus really is on the family/individual.Uskis said:
Hmm... anyone else reckon we gamers have more solutions to the world's problems than all the world's politicians combined?
I feel there's little need for a government in any situation, let alone in helping those who are addicted to things. It's not the responsibility of the government, it's the responsibility of the person in question to find a way to help their problem. If they do not see their obesity as a problem, so be it.Uskis said:
I don't mind fat people, and I believe this topic has turned into a debate of whether fat people should be discriminated against or not. I just feel that laws to force tolerance of fat people are morally wrong, as is any form of law to force tolerance on anything, since it's an attempt to force opinions onto people.
It would be a giant step in the right direction though. Ensuring every child a proper meal one time a day throughout their entire education, and making unhealthy products more expensive. The government can't force people directly to eat healthy, but it can legislate so that it's possible and more attractive to chose a healthy solution over an unhealthy one.Jaythulhu said:
Please excuse the double post (If no one else does between my writing this post) and the slight change of topic again, but I like this guy's description. I'm somewhat overweight myself, I've got a bit of a beergut I'd like to see go away, and since I don't have any dogs to walk, I try my hardest to get some friends out, just walk around, discuss things like the topic in question with each other. I have been losing weight, albeit very slowly, but that's just how weight is lost.SecretTacoNinja said:
Too many people believe that diets and exercise have instant results, and fall for those which have no benefit whatsoever because they claim to help you lose a stone in a month. Losing weight is a slow process, which you inevitably have to work hard to get results.
You sound like an deluded laissez-faire anarcho-capitalistRYjet911 said:
We should leave issues like fire-departments, law-enforcement, public education and general health up to the private initiative. Let's make money of that! great idea! /sarcasm
What should be done then to the people who can't break the addiction. Leave them to rot? they are not good people for failing to realize their own situation and acting about it?
so law to force tolerance (anti discrimination laws and the likes) are morally wrong as well?
Yes, they are. It's a restriction of people's freedom of speech, a restriction on people's right to their own opinion. It's not socially accepted, but people can be racist. And all these anti-racism laws haven't really helped prevent racism, have they?
EDIT: And, I am an anarchist. I believe a government is not needed for smooth workings of a society.
EDIT: And, I am an anarchist. I believe a government is not needed for smooth workings of a society.
As a fat guy, all I have to say is, all this reading makes me hungry.
Sorry if this joke has been done already. Reading back over all the previous posts gives me shortness of breath. Oh, and makes me smell like ham sweat.
(Seriously, I'm fat, I know it's my fault, I know it's killing me, and if I decide to do something about it or not, that's my problem and I'll deal with the consequences either way. Frankly the only thing that bugs me is you rail-thins think my physicality is some how your business because it's preventable or changeable or something. I don't understand this, except that looking at me frightens you because you're terrified of becoming what I am.
To which I say, suck it up, you flaccid cowards. It's not your f**king problem. Oh, and the idea that my very presence prompts deep emotional responses from people around me gives me so much dirty pleasure, I grin just thinking about it.
To be honest, I've lost about 50 lbs over the last 2 years and I was only a 3XL to begin with. So it's not like I can't walk or something. But yes, I am not as pretty as you. And IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM.)
Sorry if this joke has been done already. Reading back over all the previous posts gives me shortness of breath. Oh, and makes me smell like ham sweat.
(Seriously, I'm fat, I know it's my fault, I know it's killing me, and if I decide to do something about it or not, that's my problem and I'll deal with the consequences either way. Frankly the only thing that bugs me is you rail-thins think my physicality is some how your business because it's preventable or changeable or something. I don't understand this, except that looking at me frightens you because you're terrified of becoming what I am.
To which I say, suck it up, you flaccid cowards. It's not your f**king problem. Oh, and the idea that my very presence prompts deep emotional responses from people around me gives me so much dirty pleasure, I grin just thinking about it.
To be honest, I've lost about 50 lbs over the last 2 years and I was only a 3XL to begin with. So it's not like I can't walk or something. But yes, I am not as pretty as you. And IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM.)
I'm now going to address the subject in one of my trademark gigantic posts. You have been warned.
This is a very peculiar topic for me. There's a very small, often faded, line between being anti-discrimination and discrimination. If there's ever an example of "the wolf wearing sheep's clothing" this is probably it.
Don't get me wrong, in a utopia I'm all for anti-discrimination, but in a utopia no laws make sense because the only way to live that makes sense is complete anarchy, since everyone would be responsible enough to take care of each other.
That said, this isn't a utopia and people are stupid, and often ignorant despite the uphill battle to educate the masses. So we have anti-discrimination laws to protect minorities from the stupid inbreed ignorants that think the color of your skin totally matters. Which sounds good in theory, but as we've already established the masses are still quite stupid, and this goes both ways. So then we get people filling lawsuits because some guy in a conversation mentioned the world "black", or some hic said the word "******". Which leads us to another issue.
A few hundred years ago Voltaire said "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to death your right to say it.". Let's think about it for a second. We're now accepting the possibility of suing people because they said or did something we do not agree with. Slippery slope isn't it? You see, as much as we want to consider discriminating people as the unwashed ignorant inbred hics they generally are, what gives us the right to shut them up because we disagree with them?
See, when you sue/arrest someone for denying someone else a job cause they think they're ugly, or fat, or asian, or too tall... you're doing the exact thing you look down on them for doing: imposing your views on theirs. This isn't an issue when we're arresting someone for actively attempting to hurt someone for discriminatory reasons since that's a step over the boundaries of freedom, but if someone owns a small store and is against having gay people work there, or against straight people working there, or fat people... How can we walk to them with a straight face and say "sorry, the way you run your own establishment is wrong because we say so, you will now start employing people you don't want or we will sue you, because we say so."?
The mere expression "hate crime" is ridiculous... Aren't almost all crimes hate crimes? If I murder someone of my exact ethnicity, weight, height, sexual preference and gender... Is it still not a hate crime? Isn't the simple denomination of "hate crime" when there's a difference of ethnicity between the criminal and the victim automatically imply inequality?
I don't think discrimination is right, ever. It's nothing but sheer ignorance and hate. But honestly, I don't think criminalizing a person's taste, no matter how ignorant, is the way to promote acceptance. Education is the key here.
That said, the crushing majority of fat people are not fat due to genetic issues, they're fat because they eat crap and don't do anything. I know it's hard to accept, but the majority of you people with a 4th belly do eat too much, generally unhealthy and don't exercise nearly enough. And no, the answer isn't to go on a ridiculous starvation diet. That only kills you faster. The answer is to eat healthy food and do some exercise, and have patience because you're not going to loose 15 years of bad habits in a week.
As for the totally unrelated sub-topic, yes, choosing the gender of your baby is wrong in every level. Remember a baby isn't a doll, it's a person, and we have no right to decide a child's entire life without them being able to say anything.
This is a very peculiar topic for me. There's a very small, often faded, line between being anti-discrimination and discrimination. If there's ever an example of "the wolf wearing sheep's clothing" this is probably it.
Don't get me wrong, in a utopia I'm all for anti-discrimination, but in a utopia no laws make sense because the only way to live that makes sense is complete anarchy, since everyone would be responsible enough to take care of each other.
That said, this isn't a utopia and people are stupid, and often ignorant despite the uphill battle to educate the masses. So we have anti-discrimination laws to protect minorities from the stupid inbreed ignorants that think the color of your skin totally matters. Which sounds good in theory, but as we've already established the masses are still quite stupid, and this goes both ways. So then we get people filling lawsuits because some guy in a conversation mentioned the world "black", or some hic said the word "******". Which leads us to another issue.
A few hundred years ago Voltaire said "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to death your right to say it.". Let's think about it for a second. We're now accepting the possibility of suing people because they said or did something we do not agree with. Slippery slope isn't it? You see, as much as we want to consider discriminating people as the unwashed ignorant inbred hics they generally are, what gives us the right to shut them up because we disagree with them?
See, when you sue/arrest someone for denying someone else a job cause they think they're ugly, or fat, or asian, or too tall... you're doing the exact thing you look down on them for doing: imposing your views on theirs. This isn't an issue when we're arresting someone for actively attempting to hurt someone for discriminatory reasons since that's a step over the boundaries of freedom, but if someone owns a small store and is against having gay people work there, or against straight people working there, or fat people... How can we walk to them with a straight face and say "sorry, the way you run your own establishment is wrong because we say so, you will now start employing people you don't want or we will sue you, because we say so."?
The mere expression "hate crime" is ridiculous... Aren't almost all crimes hate crimes? If I murder someone of my exact ethnicity, weight, height, sexual preference and gender... Is it still not a hate crime? Isn't the simple denomination of "hate crime" when there's a difference of ethnicity between the criminal and the victim automatically imply inequality?
I don't think discrimination is right, ever. It's nothing but sheer ignorance and hate. But honestly, I don't think criminalizing a person's taste, no matter how ignorant, is the way to promote acceptance. Education is the key here.
That said, the crushing majority of fat people are not fat due to genetic issues, they're fat because they eat crap and don't do anything. I know it's hard to accept, but the majority of you people with a 4th belly do eat too much, generally unhealthy and don't exercise nearly enough. And no, the answer isn't to go on a ridiculous starvation diet. That only kills you faster. The answer is to eat healthy food and do some exercise, and have patience because you're not going to loose 15 years of bad habits in a week.
As for the totally unrelated sub-topic, yes, choosing the gender of your baby is wrong in every level. Remember a baby isn't a doll, it's a person, and we have no right to decide a child's entire life without them being able to say anything.
For those arguing the medical basis for obesity, there is a flaw. Inactive/hyperactive thyroid glands, AD36, genetic mutations etc. These all existed BEFORE the 'obiesity epidemic.' Ultimately the increase in the availablility of cheap, high carbohydrate & saturated fat foods; coupled with the increasingly sedentary nature of modern life is at the root of it. I dont deny it contributes to peoples suseptability for becoming obease, but at the end of the day being more suseptable doesnt make something inevitable.
To quote a lyric from Lazyboy-Underwear goes inside the pants:
Americans, let's face it: We've been a spoiled country for a long time.
Do you know what the number one health risk in America is?
Obesity. They say we're in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
An epidemic like it is polio. Like we'll be telling our grand kids about it one day.
The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004.
"How'd you get through it grandpa?"
"Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere."
Nobody knows why were getting fatter? Look at our lifestyle.
I'll sit at a drive thru.
I'll sit there behind fifteen other cars instead of getting up to make the eight foot walk to the totally empty counter.
Everything is mega meal, super sized. Want biggie fries, super sized, want to go large.
You want to have thirty burgers for a nickel you fat mother f*cker. There's room in the back. Take it!
Want a 55 gallon drum of Coke with that? It's only three more cents.
As for 'fatty discrimination' yeah I do think people should accept fat people as not all being walking health hazards who obviously just need more patronising suggestions for losing weight. But equally, paticularly the mega morbid obease need to accept that the world doesnt & wont change around them, they have to change to it. Cant fit through that door? Thats not the doors fault, its yours. Take up 2 or more seats on a plane/cinema? Then buy tickets for those seats rather than expecting them to leave one free for ur overflow. If someone complains ur taking up too much space, thats not them discriminating against you anymore then it would be if they asked a tall person to move their head abit so they could see. The world doesnt revolve around you just as it doesnt revolve around anyone.
To quote a lyric from Lazyboy-Underwear goes inside the pants:
Americans, let's face it: We've been a spoiled country for a long time.
Do you know what the number one health risk in America is?
Obesity. They say we're in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
An epidemic like it is polio. Like we'll be telling our grand kids about it one day.
The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004.
"How'd you get through it grandpa?"
"Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere."
Nobody knows why were getting fatter? Look at our lifestyle.
I'll sit at a drive thru.
I'll sit there behind fifteen other cars instead of getting up to make the eight foot walk to the totally empty counter.
Everything is mega meal, super sized. Want biggie fries, super sized, want to go large.
You want to have thirty burgers for a nickel you fat mother f*cker. There's room in the back. Take it!
Want a 55 gallon drum of Coke with that? It's only three more cents.
As for 'fatty discrimination' yeah I do think people should accept fat people as not all being walking health hazards who obviously just need more patronising suggestions for losing weight. But equally, paticularly the mega morbid obease need to accept that the world doesnt & wont change around them, they have to change to it. Cant fit through that door? Thats not the doors fault, its yours. Take up 2 or more seats on a plane/cinema? Then buy tickets for those seats rather than expecting them to leave one free for ur overflow. If someone complains ur taking up too much space, thats not them discriminating against you anymore then it would be if they asked a tall person to move their head abit so they could see. The world doesnt revolve around you just as it doesnt revolve around anyone.
there's no such thing as unlimited freedom of speech. You are not allowed to threat people at random, and yes, I think they do prevent racism and sexism from spreading. Just like on a forum, you need moderators. While I enjoy /b/ in all it's retarded anarchism, there's no way I'd consider it a role-model for the organization of any kind of society.RYjet911 said:
What kind of anarchist are you? Just out of curiosity, what is your ideal of anarchism?
Actually, I don't think that that's what the majority of people claim. Nobody is saying that it's impossible to lose weight (except for people who actually have medical disorders preventing them from doing so), but you said it yourself: they're objecting to discrimination based on their appearance. It doesn't matter what excuses they make for their situations. People of a particular race can get cosmetic surgery to look Caucasian. I think we can agree it is entirely unreasonable that they require going to such lengths just to avoid racism. So too is it that the overweight shouldn't have to lose weight to avoid becoming targets of ridicule or social ostracism.hypothetical fact said:
Yeah, right. You'll be an anarchist right up to the point when someone enters your house, has sex with your partner and takes all your stuff because hey, in an anarchic society, anything goes. Then you'll be screaming for a government to protect you and your stuff. Guess how many rights you'd have in such a society? If your guess is a positive number, you'd be wrong.RYjet911 said:
Every right has a responsibility associated with it. As a declared anarchist, that means you don't believe you have any responsibilities to the rest of society. Therefore, you have no rights. Go sit in a corner and shush. Hey, ya can't even get mad at me for saying that
I do have to agree with you on a minor point, the only people who seem to have been affected by anti-racism laws are white people. I know for a fact the asians who sell me dinner once or twice a month aren't saying nice things about me when they talk to eachother while I'm paying for my food (I can speak a fair amount of mandarin, russian and french, and understand a fair bit more). I see a hell of a lot of black americans using the word cracker to describe white people without any kind of recourse too (I don't really get that one. I thought a cracker was what you yanks called a savoury biscuit?).
Sure, government has its faults, and plenty of them, but without it, you wouldn't enjoy the life you have today. Now, can we bounce back on topic?