I am feeling alienated and offended by Bioware

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Woodsey

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Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
*insert comment regarding sand in the vaginal area*

I don't get it. You feel alienated from a good company because they don't have the same overblown "patriotism" as you?
No I am aliented because it is ANOTHER videogame company in Canada that does not ever represent its nation. Something universal and seemingly unbreakable. I am not asking for the Canadian media industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just to show that they care. Remember the part of my post about what a nation means to an individual and or group?
I think I gave up by that point.

Again, why should they care? It's a piece of media that tells a story, and the fictional background is that Canada and Mexico joined the US (joined, not submitted and became enslaved by) - would this even be an issue if it read "the US and Mexico joined Canada"?

This is the perfect example of a non-issue.
It matters because it matters to other people (media consumers) and what matters to them can influence them and in turn affect their POV (no matter how small and undetectable). Thus it is an issue.

P.S. I cannot think of how the Canadian government would ever convince the population to agree to joining the States, I heard nothing about Canada being in a comprised position to be needing to join. I know our weak pride in our nation is enough to not want to dipose of our current rule and face their culture being superceded. Yes we have own separate from the States.
It's fiction, why are you treating this like it's actually happened/going to happen?! The reasons the nations join together is because now it's Earth against everyone else, it's not really that complicated or a particularly forseeable outcome for anything like the near future. No one else has brought this up and the game's been out for 3 years.

I love how Canada is apparently operated by a hive-mind though.
 

rekabdarb

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um... who cares? nationalism is the bane of human existence. Do you know what happened when Germany and Britain (or france whatever floats your boat) started penis measuring in 1914? World War 1 damnit
 

Fortuan

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not being from Canada I can see being out of place here. Me I'm from the United States, Ohio to be exact. I have the same feelings for my state honestly. I'm not a football fan but I'll root for the Bengals all day. A lot of jokes are poked at Ohio and while it is all fun sometimes people are serious. It bother's me b/c it helps define who I am. So I would COMPLETELY relate if say an Ohio developer made a California protagonist every time. Bioware honestly should acknowledge their home, have a sense of pride!
 

Saulkar

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Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
*insert comment regarding sand in the vaginal area*

I don't get it. You feel alienated from a good company because they don't have the same overblown "patriotism" as you?
No I am aliented because it is ANOTHER videogame company in Canada that does not ever represent its nation. Something universal and seemingly unbreakable. I am not asking for the Canadian media industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just to show that they care. Remember the part of my post about what a nation means to an individual and or group?
I think I gave up by that point.

Again, why should they care? It's a piece of media that tells a story, and the fictional background is that Canada and Mexico joined the US (joined, not submitted and became enslaved by) - would this even be an issue if it read "the US and Mexico joined Canada"?

This is the perfect example of a non-issue.
It matters because it matters to other people (media consumers) and what matters to them can influence them and in turn affect their POV (no matter how small and undetectable). Thus it is an issue.

P.S. I cannot think of how the Canadian government would ever convince the population to agree to joining the States, I heard nothing about Canada being in a comprised position to be needing to join. I know our weak pride in our nation is enough to not want to dipose of our current rule and face their culture being superceded. Yes we have own separate from the States.
It's fiction, why are you treating this like it's actually happened/going to happen?! The reasons the nations join together is because now it's Earth against everyone else, it's not really that complicated or a particularly forseeable outcome for anything like the near future. No one else has brought this up and the game's been out for 3 years.

I love how Canada is apparently operated by a hive-mind though.
Hells bells, point missed moving on.
 

archvile93

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Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
ravensheart18 said:
Saulkar said:
P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.
You could have just posted this. It's the reason. It will sell better with the American target audience and most Canadians aren't so immature as to care about the setting or the flag on the protagonist's coat.
And this is a perfect example of why you should just realize it's not a big deal. We Americans get mocked all the time, but you don't see me at least whining about it.
Read the post! Find out why it hurts first!
I did, it's still not that big a deal.
It is to a Nation with a weak sense of identity in the current generation.
Maybe you think that, but since I've never heard anyone but you complain about Canada's cultural identity, it's probably just you being overly patriotic like backwoods rednecks are here. By the way, one of my cousin's entire nuclear family is Canadian and I never hear this from them.
Not patriotic, concerned (Patriotic sounds too jingoistic from a personal point of view). This is an issue because a culture is an indentity of a group. When you fail to acknowledge it has the potential to show other cultures that you do not care for it. This is on the PERSONAL LEVEL. While it has no real political influence, it affects how the goverened body feels about itself deep down. Using one family instead of a studied group holds little merit. Not to be offensive.
It's a bigger sample than what you've got, which is just you.
 

Saulkar

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Fortuan said:
not being from Canada I can see being out of place here. Me I'm from the United States, Ohio to be exact. I have the same feelings for my state honestly. I'm not a football fan but I'll root for the Bengals all day. A lot of jokes are poked at Ohio and while it is all fun sometimes people are serious. It bother's me b/c it helps define who I am. So I would COMPLETELY relate if say an Ohio developer made a California protagonist every time. Bioware honestly should acknowledge their home, have a sense of pride!
Finally someone who got the point! I am not asking for the Canadian industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just acknowledge it. Regardless of if your comment had been for or against my post. Yours at least saw where I was going with this!
 

rekabdarb

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MiracleOfSound said:
I've never heard a Scottish person complaining that Niko Bellic was Serbian.
i believe that this comment right here should sum up this thread. Yeah on the note of GTA fuckin rockstar is making FOREIGN protagonists.
 

Mcupobob

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Saulkar said:
Mcupobob said:
Canada makes fun of America all the time(maybe not as much through media) and America does the same. Is it because we hate each other? No, its simply because it just sort of a understanding. I would like to say that we both respect each other enough not to get overblown about simply good hearted jesting.
Once again a comment that missed the point. The point is a universal lack of Candian content in Canada's own industry. I was stating why it is easier to ignore another nations gests at another than ones own gest at itself in the case of Canada.
I've been up for a good amount of hours so bare with me if I'm not getting it. So what your saying is that you want more games based around Canada or at least gaming counties to put out other nations other than America and counties America is at war with right? Well as far as I know theres just not a great enough demand or profit for any industry to take the risk as far as I know.

Again bare with me because I'm a little slow right now(waiting up for a call). So if I didn't get it right this time just tell me to walk away.
 

Upbeat Zombie

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I don't see what the big deal is. So your upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?
There are better things to be upset by then that.
 

Fortuan

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Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
*insert comment regarding sand in the vaginal area*

I don't get it. You feel alienated from a good company because they don't have the same overblown "patriotism" as you?
No I am aliented because it is ANOTHER videogame company in Canada that does not ever represent its nation. Something universal and seemingly unbreakable. I am not asking for the Canadian media industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just to show that they care. Remember the part of my post about what a nation means to an individual and or group?
I think I gave up by that point.

Again, why should they care? It's a piece of media that tells a story, and the fictional background is that Canada and Mexico joined the US (joined, not submitted and became enslaved by) - would this even be an issue if it read "the US and Mexico joined Canada"?

This is the perfect example of a non-issue.
It matters because it matters to other people (media consumers) and what matters to them can influence them and in turn affect their POV (no matter how small and undetectable). Thus it is an issue.

P.S. I cannot think of how the Canadian government would ever convince the population to agree to joining the States, I heard nothing about Canada being in a comprised position to be needing to join. I know our weak pride in our nation is enough to not want to dipose of our current rule and face their culture being superceded. Yes we have own separate from the States.
It's fiction, why are you treating this like it's actually happened/going to happen?! The reasons the nations join together is because now it's Earth against everyone else, it's not really that complicated or a particularly forseeable outcome for anything like the near future. No one else has brought this up and the game's been out for 3 years.

I love how Canada is apparently operated by a hive-mind though.
I say his point is indeed valid your home helps make who you are! I love that the majority of astronauts come from my state Ohio! I love that we are tied with Virginia for most presidents in office! I love my state, will I promote war or hatred over it? no. This is not overblown patriotism this is a request to have some kind of recognition.
 

JuryNelson

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Saulkar said:
It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable
Well, there's your problem.

I think to a certain extent, every nation is having this problem. What does a Canadian look like? What kinds of things might a Canadian do differently than an American? Than an Indian? Than a German?

If a game was to come out that was quintessentially Canadian, what sorts of values would it even have? What would its protagonist say and do to mark him or her as Canadian? If Canada was to become the dominant world power in some potential fictional future, how would that world be different from if Canada was annexed by the United States?

I get that it's a rant, and you don't have to provide the counterexample to a worldview you don't agree with, so I'm totally with you there. But Canada is actually a SUPER interesting case of post-modern nationhood. Canada's history (from what I know and have researched) is incredibly interesting and complicated, especially as concerns a shared national history. There's a lot of conflict, a lot of failure or refusal to agree, and I'm pretty sure that Montreal is the most ethnically diverse/segregated city in the world.


Canada is interesting, but very hard to explain to people. I think that's why it's easier to just say "America Everything." Canada is a powerhouse of videogames (Radical in Vancouver, my favorite Ubisoft in Montreal? These aren't just boutiques is my point) but the demand is all in the United States and Europe. And the culture is so much easier to sort of sum up. And people will knee-jerk to make fun of Canada if they start to stand up and ask to be looked at.

What you need is a Stompin' Tom of videogames is what you need. I'd sneak across the border for a game like that.
 

JuryNelson

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Upbeat Zombie said:
I don't see what the big deal is. So your upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?
There are better things to be upset by then that.
There are better things to be upset by than ANYTHING.

I don't see what the big deal is. So you're confused why OP is upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?

There are better things to be confused by than that.
 

Saulkar

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archvile93 said:
Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
Saulkar said:
archvile93 said:
ravensheart18 said:
Saulkar said:
P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.
You could have just posted this. It's the reason. It will sell better with the American target audience and most Canadians aren't so immature as to care about the setting or the flag on the protagonist's coat.
And this is a perfect example of why you should just realize it's not a big deal. We Americans get mocked all the time, but you don't see me at least whining about it.
Read the post! Find out why it hurts first!
I did, it's still not that big a deal.
It is to a Nation with a weak sense of identity in the current generation.
Maybe you think that, but since I've never heard anyone but you complain about Canada's cultural identity, it's probably just you being overly patriotic like backwoods rednecks are here. By the way, one of my cousin's entire nuclear family is Canadian and I never hear this from them.
Not patriotic, concerned (Patriotic sounds too jingoistic from a personal point of view). This is an issue because a culture is an indentity of a group. When you fail to acknowledge it has the potential to show other cultures that you do not care for it. This is on the PERSONAL LEVEL. While it has no real political influence, it affects how the goverened body feels about itself deep down. Using one family instead of a studied group holds little merit. Not to be offensive.
It's a bigger sample than what you've got, which is just you.
My Sample?
Work (a super market and all its employees and customers)
School (1000+ Students and teachers (vote cast had a 93% support for Canada as being where we would have prefered to be born))
Extended Family
And last but not least a city with a wish to see more Canadian media from our own nation, even if it never crosses the border.

Still a very limited consensus but you cannot argue against 80% to 90% of 18,000 people.
 

Woodsey

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Fortuan said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
*insert comment regarding sand in the vaginal area*

I don't get it. You feel alienated from a good company because they don't have the same overblown "patriotism" as you?
No I am aliented because it is ANOTHER videogame company in Canada that does not ever represent its nation. Something universal and seemingly unbreakable. I am not asking for the Canadian media industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just to show that they care. Remember the part of my post about what a nation means to an individual and or group?
I think I gave up by that point.

Again, why should they care? It's a piece of media that tells a story, and the fictional background is that Canada and Mexico joined the US (joined, not submitted and became enslaved by) - would this even be an issue if it read "the US and Mexico joined Canada"?

This is the perfect example of a non-issue.
It matters because it matters to other people (media consumers) and what matters to them can influence them and in turn affect their POV (no matter how small and undetectable). Thus it is an issue.

P.S. I cannot think of how the Canadian government would ever convince the population to agree to joining the States, I heard nothing about Canada being in a comprised position to be needing to join. I know our weak pride in our nation is enough to not want to dipose of our current rule and face their culture being superceded. Yes we have own separate from the States.
It's fiction, why are you treating this like it's actually happened/going to happen?! The reasons the nations join together is because now it's Earth against everyone else, it's not really that complicated or a particularly forseeable outcome for anything like the near future. No one else has brought this up and the game's been out for 3 years.

I love how Canada is apparently operated by a hive-mind though.
I say his point is indeed valid your home helps make who you are! I love that the majority of astronauts come from my state Ohio! I love that we are tied with Virginia for most presidents in office! I love my state, will I promote war or hatred over it? no. This is not overblown patriotism this is a request to have some kind of recognition.
Canada has some of the best game development studios around - how much more recognition does he want from the industry?

Maybe if this was a problem I'd seen anyone else express at all I'd take it marginally more seriously.
 

Dastardly

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Saulkar said:
This is more of a rant to get it off my chest and hopefully make me feel better so bear with me.

(Keyword:Modern-A sign that one continues to this day to inovate and create, to keep up to date with the standing culture's expectations)

A couple days ago I was reading the Mass Effect wiki http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Master_Thief%3A_Kasumi%27s_Secrets when I stumbled upon something that most people would dismiss as pure fantasy and move on yet it felt like a punch to the gut for me. What was it? Canada and Mexico had been annexed into the United States of North America.

Oh no not another whiner, it is not even real, get over it, suck it up butter cup!

CANN IT! and let me explain why this bugs me so much. Since the dawn of time people have poked fun and made jokes about other people's nations. Something that is completely understandable but after a while it starts to hurt through either ignorance or design. A nation is one's birthplace, their cultural center, their sense of home, the image they as a group or individual project to the world, their identity itself! Thus one almost always feels the need to defend it because people sense making fun of the nation is making also not only fun of you but what you are and who you are as a group and an individual. To lose that figurative backbone would be devistating to the majority.

In the case of the States ridiculing, making fun of, or being indifferent to Canada you generally are not supposed to take it seriously as it is in most but not all cases done in jest. We here in Canada do it all the time so it goes both ways, but I am going to explain where the problem lies. Because the States have a vastly more influential media and cultural backing than Canada, anything that comes out of the States tends to have more of an impact on our own culture.

Think of every joke towards Canada from the States as a poke, harmless and forgetable. But if you are repeatedly poked in the same area it starts to bug you then eventually climaxes in anger, despite that in most cases that was never the intent, they just did not know when to stop. The only solution is to walk away. Problem Solved. But...

Bioware being a Canadian videogame developer I could not help but feel a sense of pride from their artistic accomplishments they were sending out to the world and Canada as well. Mass Effect felt like a real stepping stone in establishing a image of a good Canadian game that quite possibly had a Canadian as a protagonist and thus represented Canada(depending on what upbringing you chose). "Almost" all games that come out (NOT INCLUDING SPORTS GAMES) of Canada have someone from the States as the protagonist. This matters how? Remember what I said of ones nation being the image and identity that represents you as an individual or group. Thus by others intentially having ignored this results in a sense of "My culture does not matter enough for others, even fellow Canadians to care". Thus by outright removing Canada from the picture, I feel it as another outright careless throw away to Canadian audiences who are looking for a real, modern Canadian cultural videogame icon that our own developers are depriving us of. This was clearly not the intent, a writer may blow up a country they have just read about that morning in a book they are writing that evening and may offend somebody from that nation, but it cannot be helped.

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable, ie. A Candian video game writer blowing up Canada compared to a writer from the States blowing up the U.S. We lack the integrity because of our own money based refusal to represent our own nation starting with and resulting in a weak sense of pride and cultural identity in the industry. One might argue that their country say Norway has never been featured in any recent high profile media, but you most certainly have closely held modern cultural icons within the nation itself that many can feel proud of. Even if it is not video game based because it can rival that, i.e. Devastatingly powerful Heavy Metal Scene.

That is why it hurt so much coming from a Canadian Developer where it could have been dismissed coming from a foriegn one. It ignored its own nation, something all other Canadian videogame developers do.

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.

EDIT: I guess only a couple of people saw what I was saying and gave a thoughtful comment in oposition or agreement. The rest are just too dismissive to the topic to take seriously. Thankyou for the comments but I did not get out of this what I hoped for.
I really just need you to think through this step-by-step:

1) In a future involving intergalactic travel (and likely trade), it's perfectly likely that many smaller nations will consolidate whenever geographically convenient. Concerns will be far more global.

2) Security will be a greater issue, if for instance your neighbors allow free reign to visiting aliens, or something. It might seem in your nation's best interests to actually TAKE OVER your neighbors to prevent leaks of that sort.

3) In either case, whether by negotiation or force, which of these three countries do you think, most reasonably, will come out on top? Yeah, it'd be great to see "Canada takes over both US and Mexico," but how LIKELY is that given what we know now about the economic and military power of these three nations?

So they just took a very likely scenario for the setting (consolidation of nations where geographically convenient) and followed it out to the most likely conclusion: America annexes the two smaller nations, either by using its massive wealth or its massive military.
 

Amethyst Wind

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Perhaps the Canadian Videogame Industry is aware of the fact that Canada is A LANDMASS, not an identity. Perhaps they aren't fond of Jingo-istic nonsense like this.
 

ryai458

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In fallout american annexed Canada too, that a problem aswell, its a videogame relax maybe shoot up on some maple syrup.
 

Saulkar

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Fortuan said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
Saulkar said:
Woodsey said:
*insert comment regarding sand in the vaginal area*

I don't get it. You feel alienated from a good company because they don't have the same overblown "patriotism" as you?
No I am aliented because it is ANOTHER videogame company in Canada that does not ever represent its nation. Something universal and seemingly unbreakable. I am not asking for the Canadian media industry to focus exclusively on Canada. Just to show that they care. Remember the part of my post about what a nation means to an individual and or group?
I think I gave up by that point.

Again, why should they care? It's a piece of media that tells a story, and the fictional background is that Canada and Mexico joined the US (joined, not submitted and became enslaved by) - would this even be an issue if it read "the US and Mexico joined Canada"?

This is the perfect example of a non-issue.
It matters because it matters to other people (media consumers) and what matters to them can influence them and in turn affect their POV (no matter how small and undetectable). Thus it is an issue.

P.S. I cannot think of how the Canadian government would ever convince the population to agree to joining the States, I heard nothing about Canada being in a comprised position to be needing to join. I know our weak pride in our nation is enough to not want to dipose of our current rule and face their culture being superceded. Yes we have own separate from the States.
It's fiction, why are you treating this like it's actually happened/going to happen?! The reasons the nations join together is because now it's Earth against everyone else, it's not really that complicated or a particularly forseeable outcome for anything like the near future. No one else has brought this up and the game's been out for 3 years.

I love how Canada is apparently operated by a hive-mind though.
I say his point is indeed valid your home helps make who you are! I love that the majority of astronauts come from my state Ohio! I love that we are tied with Virginia for most presidents in office! I love my state, will I promote war or hatred over it? no. This is not overblown patriotism this is a request to have some kind of recognition.
I see some one got the point. I am all for someone opposing my point of view. I just want them to understand where I am going with it first.