I am feeling alienated and offended by Bioware

[Red Right Hand]

Interesting. I worked on the game for two years years and didn't even know that. I suppose that shows how much it mattered to us development-side.

As in "not at all."

It shouldn't come as any surprise, really. Even we can joke about the comedically "inevitable" annexing of our own country. My question is: if we can laugh about it, why can't you?

By the way, we have plenty of cultural identity. We're just humble enough to not have to shove it down everyone else's throat. Please try not to mistake humility for a lack of identity. Not everyone needs to scream patriotism from their roof for a country to have a strong sense of self.

Wait a minute, you work for Bioware?

 

[Saulkar]

I don't see what the big deal is. So your upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?
There are better things to be upset by then that.

There are better things to be upset by than ANYTHING.

I don't see what the big deal is. So you're confused why OP is upset that Canadian developers don't make enough Canadian protagonists?

There are better things to be confused by than that.

Not really confused by why he is upset. Just why this is an issue for him to begin with. Its a fictional story for a video game, is it really worth getting upset for?

It's an issue because if an entire generation of American films started taking place in a future where America had been annexed by Mexico, THAT would be an issue.

It's an issue because if you think of video games as an art, then they have to be held to a higher standard. Art shouldn't be allowed to get away with shit like this.

But if you don't think of video games as art, if you think of them as entertainment and commerce, then yeah. No problem. Move along. But then, you know. The government can regulate content and sale of entertainment.

A point I forgot to touch on, how we show ourselves to the world affects how they interpret us. If we keep throwing out content made for the States, other nations interpret us as having no personal identity and catering solely to our national cousin without self regard. Generating indifference between Canada and the States when people talk about us. Probably exagerated but the general idea is sound, I think.

 

[ManveruAltharen]

IT'S

A

****ING

VIDEO

GAME

 

[Saulkar]

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

Culture, not nationalism, Canada is not only a nation but a self contained culture that gives people a reason and motivation to thrive, give them a sense of supporting something bigger. The country borders just ensures that is survives. Nationalism is not the target here, acknowledgement of ones culture it.

 

[Palademon]

I felt kind of the same way when fable 3 came out 3 days earlier in America and has content exclusive to shops there where we can't get it. Not much of a problem since the game's not that great and there's tons of common glitches.

I understand how you feel since this is basically like school day discrimination, where people would mock others for being different, and then the majority give into it and your status is no longer defined by your own actions.

 

[JuryNelson]

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable

Well, there's your problem.

I think to a certain extent, every nation is having this problem. What does a Canadian look like? What kinds of things might a Canadian do differently than an American? Than an Indian? Than a German?

If a game was to come out that was quintessentially Canadian, what sorts of values would it even have? What would its protagonist say and do to mark him or her as Canadian? If Canada was to become the dominant world power in some potential fictional future, how would that world be different from if Canada was annexed by the United States?

I get that it's a rant, and you don't have to provide the counterexample to a worldview you don't agree with, so I'm totally with you there. But Canada is actually a SUPER interesting case of post-modern nationhood. Canada's history (from what I know and have researched) is incredibly interesting and complicated, especially as concerns a shared national history. There's a lot of conflict, a lot of failure or refusal to agree, and I'm pretty sure that Montreal is the most ethnically diverse/segregated city in the world.


Canada is interesting, but very hard to explain to people. I think that's why it's easier to just say "America Everything." Canada is a powerhouse of videogames (Radical in Vancouver, my favorite Ubisoft in Montreal? These aren't just boutiques is my point) but the demand is all in the United States and Europe. And the culture is so much easier to sort of sum up. And people will knee-jerk to make fun of Canada if they start to stand up and ask to be looked at.

What you need is a Stompin' Tom of videogames is what you need. I'd sneak across the border for a game like that.

I get the impression you oppose or at least disagree with my point of view and I am ok with that because you understand where I am going with it. When you say what makes a Canadian so different from the States? Because of the State's close proximity to Canada and possesing a much stronger presence. Its culture dominates our own and because of this we are not very different. Something that is sad to see since you can go back 30-40 years and see something described only as alien to the current generation.

Oh, no no no. I totally agree with your point (I think). I'm saying that I, and I assume most people outside of Canada, don't know what Canadian cultural identity is. So it gets glossed over a lot.

The motivation to just sell more shit overrides national pride, but if we're supposed to get serious about video games being art, they can't be allowed to get away with this.

That does make sense but would quietly making a character Canadian without advertising it really be that bad, say a dialogue option to tell somebody where you were born? Canadians tend to be more peaceful and rugged than people from the States, not univerasal but we have a lot more backdoor than they do. This tends to make us more quiet and polite while simultaneously holding back the punch for when it is actually needed. Things are approached slowly but we acknowledge the need for spontaneous action. When we defeat someone, we call it end and do not push it, we only push it when we know a threat is still present and a temporary defeat or a much prefered negotiation with appeasement out of the word will not work. Are you Canadian?

I'm Minnesotan. So, if I work real hard and believe in myself, one day, I could grow up to be a Canadian

 

[Ekonk]

I'm Dutch. My country is never even mentioned in video games. I was ecstatic when it was referred to in World War Z. Suck it up.

 

[Saulkar]

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

In fiction, burn Canada to the ground, nuke it, wipe it off the face of the earth, I don't care, I'm not sensitive enough to get worked up over it even though I do like my country, I just really don't care if it's 'represented correctly' in popular culture. If your country wants to impress, you shouldn't make up fictional stories to praise it, the country needs to do something effective in reality.

It has happened time and time again where one nation has been taken over and with the border gone its culture succumbs to the stronger one. Issolated pockets remain but because the larger nation has no interest in ensuring the survival of a unique approach to existing, it will die eventually. Look at a number of Africa's nations and tribes.

 

[Stephanos132]

It is a work of fiction, and the formation of multinational entities is already underway IRL anyway (EU for example).

That said, I must confess when, upon reading through the Cerberus network news items where it is pretty much implied that american football is the only world sport, I was given pause, primarily because that would hardly be likely.

 

[Saulkar]

I think that since America is still perceived as being the larger dominant power, it's a lot easier to imagine them spreading their influence throughout North America. No offense meant to Canadians, but the phrase "Canada annexed the rest of North America" is probably one that would incite a double-take at the very least. And the human society in Mass Effect is pretty much post-national, since we've all united to fight off the turians/represent ourselves to the rest of the galaxy. While I understand your frustration, I think it was merely backstory leading up to the unification of the human race as a whole, sort of a stepping off point.

It would be easier to accept if all the nations united with not one nation having ever revealed to have brought up the idea to avoid favourtism. I think they approached it wrong. The idea of a global power ruled by a nationless democracy sounds alot more appealling and more likely to preserve culture.

 

[thirdsonsaburo]

Hey, at least Canada and Canadians were represented at all.

Try being gay and in Mass Effect fandom.

 

[Saulkar]

Canadians tend to be more peaceful and rugged than people from the States, not univerasal but we have a lot more backdoor than they do. This tends to make us more quiet and polite while simultaneously holding back the punch for when it is actually needed.

5 minutes left in the third period of a 2-2 tie. Corner of the ice, after the opposing center knocked over our goalie. Punch!

Hockey can really bring out Canadian rage.

Hell yeah! But in all seriousness, many of the fights are premeditated between the opponents. It is very common to invite someone from the opposite team to have a fight when a certain something they both agreed on happens (like after the second goal in the third period), that is why they throw of their helments, they do not want to injure each other.

 

[Snake Plissken]

If you need borders drawn on a map to have some sense of identity, you need to re-examine your sense of self.

I'm sorry that you consistently feel belittled by Americans, but do you have any idea of the kind of shit we have to listen to from Brits?

"Your beer sucks."
"You're all fat."
"You're all rednecks."
"Do you realize that cowboy hats look stupid?"
"How could you vote for someone like George Bush?"

Guess what? There weren't any Canadians in Baldur's Gate or KOTOR either. Does that bother you, too?

You are in severe need of a thicker skin. This is no different than if I felt alienated by a game because the main character is African, yet the game was developed in the United States. OMGZORZ! I CAN'T IDENTIFY WITH AFRICANS!

 

[archvile93]

P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.

You could have just posted this. It's the reason. It will sell better with the American target audience and most Canadians aren't so immature as to care about the setting or the flag on the protagonist's coat.

And this is a perfect example of why you should just realize it's not a big deal. We Americans get mocked all the time, but you don't see me at least whining about it.

Read the post! Find out why it hurts first!

I did, it's still not that big a deal.

It is to a Nation with a weak sense of identity in the current generation.

Maybe you think that, but since I've never heard anyone but you complain about Canada's cultural identity, it's probably just you being overly patriotic like backwoods rednecks are here. By the way, one of my cousin's entire nuclear family is Canadian and I never hear this from them.

Not patriotic, concerned (Patriotic sounds too jingoistic from a personal point of view). This is an issue because a culture is an indentity of a group. When you fail to acknowledge it has the potential to show other cultures that you do not care for it. This is on the PERSONAL LEVEL. While it has no real political influence, it affects how the goverened body feels about itself deep down. Using one family instead of a studied group holds little merit. Not to be offensive.

It's a bigger sample than what you've got, which is just you.

My Sample?
Work (a super market and all its employees and customers)
School (1000+ Students and teachers (vote cast had a 93% support for Canada as being where we would have prefered to be born))
Extended Family
And last but not least a city with a wish to see more Canadian media from our own nation, even if it never crosses the border.

Still a very limited consensus but you cannot argue against 80% to 90% of 18,000 people.

It doesn't seem like they were polled on their opinions on the specific concern you have. Preference to where your're born (and those results don't surprise me, you'd probably get similar results from just about everywhere) isn't really the same question. Or is that just the school poll and it's throwing me off of what you're trying to say?

 

[Blind Sight]

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

Culture, not nationalism, Canada is not only a nation but a self contained culture that gives people a reason and motivation to thrive, give them a sense of supporting something bigger. The country borders just ensures that is survives. Nationalism is not the target here, acknowledgement of ones culture it.

Ah, so I assume you support Quebec cultural elements then as well? Perhaps its borders should be used to protect their unique culture as well?

Look, culture is always changing, and a lot of Canadian culture does stem from American goods or products that moved over the border. Molson Canadian is owned by Americans, and 80% of the stock in the Beer Store is owned by American beer companies. To call Canada's culture 'self contained' is to negate its very nature. Unlike a lot of countries, Canadian culture is a product of constant immigration and EXTERNAL cultural elements changing things. Culture in Canada is a product of other groups. Case in point: the emergence of the English and the Loyalists after the American Revolution in Canada lead to our support of locally elected town councils.

The main reason that culture is primarily a product of other ethnic groups immigrating to Canada is because we have no ethnic identity to speak of. Canadian culture is not something we've thought up independently, but because we were linked to the rest of the world, cross-border cultural exchange occurred. It's Canada's very nature as an open society that has allowed it to gain its cultural roots.

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

In fiction, burn Canada to the ground, nuke it, wipe it off the face of the earth, I don't care, I'm not sensitive enough to get worked up over it even though I do like my country, I just really don't care if it's 'represented correctly' in popular culture. If your country wants to impress, you shouldn't make up fictional stories to praise it, the country needs to do something effective in reality.

It has happened time and time again where one nation has been taken over and with the border gone its culture succumbs to the stronger one. Issolated pockets remain but because the larger nation has no interest in ensuring the survival of a unique approach to existing, it will die eventually. Look at a number of Africa's nations and tribes.

No offense but that's a really poor example, Africa's problems primarily stem from the fact that they have no real concept of the nationstate when Europeans showed up, who were able to out-produce them very easily as a result. Four hundred years of incorrectly drawn colonial borders somewhat negates positive cultural exchange. The exact opposite is for Canada, which has openly incorporated foreign cultural values as it changed over the times.

One cannot say that Canada would have been the same had the British not conquered it from the French in 1763. This was a foreign power using military force to control a colony, but I'm guessing that both you and I take that part of history as part of what defines Canada. The British largely exported their culture into our country, how is that better then a legal alliance with the rest of North America that would, in reality, probably guarantee you a number of cultural rights? Sometimes fact is stranger then fiction.

 

[Saulkar]

snip

Fiction n.
1: a : something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b : fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c : a work of fiction; especially : novel
2: a : an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth b : a useful illusion or pretense
3: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination

Now then, can we please never have this conversation again?

Too late, fiction has very real influence, influence that has a very real effect on people, something that cannot be denied.

 

[Saulkar]

I felt kind of the same way when fable 3 came out 3 days earlier in America and has content exclusive to shops there where we can't get it. Not much of a problem since the game's not that great and there's tons of common glitches.

I understand how you feel since this is basically like school day discrimination, where people would mock others for being different, and then the majority give into it and your status is no longer defined by your own actions.

General idea.