I am feeling alienated and offended by Bioware

[Saulkar]

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable

Well, there's your problem.

I think to a certain extent, every nation is having this problem. What does a Canadian look like? What kinds of things might a Canadian do differently than an American? Than an Indian? Than a German?

If a game was to come out that was quintessentially Canadian, what sorts of values would it even have? What would its protagonist say and do to mark him or her as Canadian? If Canada was to become the dominant world power in some potential fictional future, how would that world be different from if Canada was annexed by the United States?

I get that it's a rant, and you don't have to provide the counterexample to a worldview you don't agree with, so I'm totally with you there. But Canada is actually a SUPER interesting case of post-modern nationhood. Canada's history (from what I know and have researched) is incredibly interesting and complicated, especially as concerns a shared national history. There's a lot of conflict, a lot of failure or refusal to agree, and I'm pretty sure that Montreal is the most ethnically diverse/segregated city in the world.


Canada is interesting, but very hard to explain to people. I think that's why it's easier to just say "America Everything." Canada is a powerhouse of videogames (Radical in Vancouver, my favorite Ubisoft in Montreal? These aren't just boutiques is my point) but the demand is all in the United States and Europe. And the culture is so much easier to sort of sum up. And people will knee-jerk to make fun of Canada if they start to stand up and ask to be looked at.

What you need is a Stompin' Tom of videogames is what you need. I'd sneak across the border for a game like that.

I get the impression you oppose or at least disagree with my point of view and I am ok with that because you understand where I am going with it. When you say what makes a Canadian so different from the States? Because of the State's close proximity to Canada and possesing a much stronger presence. Its culture dominates our own and because of this we are not very different. Something that is sad to see since you can go back 30-40 years and see something described only as alien to the current generation.

Oh, no no no. I totally agree with your point (I think). I'm saying that I, and I assume most people outside of Canada, don't know what Canadian cultural identity is. So it gets glossed over a lot.

The motivation to just sell more shit overrides national pride, but if we're supposed to get serious about video games being art, they can't be allowed to get away with this.

That does make sense but would quietly making a character Canadian without advertising it really be that bad, say a dialogue option to tell somebody where you were born? Canadians tend to be more peaceful and rugged than people from the States, not univerasal but we have a lot more backdoor than they do. This tends to make us more quiet and polite while simultaneously holding back the punch for when it is actually needed. Things are approached slowly but we acknowledge the need for spontaneous action. When we defeat someone, we call it end and do not push it, we only push it when we know a threat is still present and a temporary defeat or a much prefered negotiation with appeasement out of the word will not work. Are you Canadian?

I'm Minnesotan. So, if I work real hard and believe in myself, one day, I could grow up to be a Canadian

Hahaha! But seriously thankyou for being the number 1 most outspoken and understanding person in this forum topic, you are what I want to see and hope to see in people from the States in the future.

 

[Talshere]

I think they made up a history that they thought might realistically happen.
And given that Humanity sort of unites itself as one group in galactic politics, yeah I think Canada and Mexico could be "joined" to the US by then.

I think when humanity unites, the larger superpowers sort of engulf the smaller neighboring states/nations/provinces to make it easier and more uniform.

Realistically Canada is more likely to join the EU then the US, despite the small puddle in between. Lets face it, the US hardly has an awesome track record when it comes to not stamping "WE OWN THIS" on anything and everything they possibly can, and culturally they have far more in common with several EU member states than the US, such as free health care, and realising this isnt communist.

 

[Saulkar]

If you need borders drawn on a map to have some sense of identity, you need to re-examine your sense of self.

I'm sorry that you consistently feel belittled by Americans, but do you have any idea of the kind of shit we have to listen to from Brits?

"Your beer sucks."
"You're all fat."
"You're all rednecks."
"Do you realize that cowboy hats look stupid?"
"How could you vote for someone like George Bush?"

Guess what? There weren't any Canadians in Baldur's Gate or KOTOR either. Does that bother you, too?

You are in severe need of a thicker skin. This is no different than if I felt alienated by a game because the main character is African, yet the game was developed in the United States. OMGZORZ! I CAN'T IDENTIFY WITH AFRICANS!

YOU GET THE

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And a stamp of MISSED THE POINT!

 

[YoBadMama]

Why are you taking this so seriously? This is FICTION: NOUN, NOT REAL, MADE UP, FAKE.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Hells bells, point missed moving on.

What exactly is your point then all I see is someone whining that in a piece of FICTION their country has joined with a country they seem to deem as a piece of shit. You have not really made any good points onto why it WOULDN'T happen while complaining and saying that someone has missed the point and shouldn't bother replying to the thread anymore.There is a great topic here but you are killing it by replying to people and then dismissing everything they are saying because it does not go up with your views on the situation that my friend is an immature brat throwing a tantrum finding out that Santa isn't real

 

[Saulkar]

Why are you taking this so seriously? This is FICTION: NOUN, NOT REAL, MADE UP, FAKE.

Fiction influences! Jeeze, how times do I need to repeat.

 

[Cypher10110]

snip (I did actually read your post)

I'd say well it's fiction, world government and all that. Also, I find it really difficult to care about my country of origin, it's a country, there are many like it, but this one is mine etc.

Canada being annexed is also in the fallout universe too. It's fiction, it's not being directly offensive, it only seems offensive because you're used to Canada jokes I guess.

(Consider short guy at supermarket trying to reach top shelf)

dude (joking around) - "Hey, shorty, need a hand?"
short dude - "DON'T CALL ME SHORTY!!"

dude (just being helpful) - "Hey man, want me to get that for ya?"
short dude - "ARE YOU CALLING ME SHORT?!?"

Its not directly insulting, unless you want to make a big deal out of it. Most people insulting Canada don't care enough to really mean it, there's dicks everywhere, but not everyone is a dick.

(I don't really understand patriotism, I'm from the UK, it's home, people can say what they like about my country, heck I might even join them in taking the piss)

 

[Harbinger_]

This is more of a rant to get it off my chest and hopefully make me feel better so bear with me.

(Keyword:Modern-A sign that one continues to this day to inovate and create, to keep up to date with the standing culture's expectations)

A couple days ago I was reading the Mass Effect wiki http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Master_Thief%3A_Kasumi%27s_Secrets when I stumbled upon something that most people would dismiss as pure fantasy and move on yet it felt like a punch to the gut for me. What was it? Canada and Mexico had been annexed into the United States of North America.

Oh no not another whiner, it is not even real, get over it, suck it up butter cup!

CANN IT! and let me explain why this bugs me so much. Since the dawn of time people have poked fun and made jokes about other people's nations. Something that is completely understandable but after a while it starts to hurt through either ignorance or design. A nation is one's birthplace, their cultural center, their sense of home, the image they as a group or individual project to the world, their identity itself! Thus one almost always feels the need to defend it because people sense making fun of the nation is making also not only fun of you but what you are and who you are as a group and an individual. To lose that figurative backbone would be devistating to the majority.

In the case of the States ridiculing, making fun of, or being indifferent to Canada you generally are not supposed to take it seriously as it is in most but not all cases done in jest. We here in Canada do it all the time so it goes both ways, but I am going to explain where the problem lies. Because the States have a vastly more influential media and cultural backing than Canada, anything that comes out of the States tends to have more of an impact on our own culture.

Think of every joke towards Canada from the States as a poke, harmless and forgetable. But if you are repeatedly poked in the same area it starts to bug you then eventually climaxes in anger, despite that in most cases that was never the intent, they just did not know when to stop. The only solution is to walk away. Problem Solved. But...

Bioware being a Canadian videogame developer I could not help but feel a sense of pride from their artistic accomplishments they were sending out to the world and Canada as well. Mass Effect felt like a real stepping stone in establishing a image of a good Canadian game that quite possibly had a Canadian as a protagonist and thus represented Canada(depending on what upbringing you chose). "Almost" all games that come out (NOT INCLUDING SPORTS GAMES) of Canada have someone from the States as the protagonist. This matters how? Remember what I said of ones nation being the image and identity that represents you as an individual or group. Thus by others intentially having ignored this results in a sense of "My culture does not matter enough for others, even fellow Canadians to care". Thus by outright removing Canada from the picture, I feel it as another outright careless throw away to Canadian audiences who are looking for a real, modern Canadian cultural videogame icon that our own developers are depriving us of. This was clearly not the intent, a writer may blow up a country they have just read about that morning in a book they are writing that evening and may offend somebody from that nation, but it cannot be helped.

It is done all the time but someone from a Nation that has no real standing "MODERN" cultural icon in a medium we are pioneers in, the lack of said national support and pride in the industry makes every statement crippling rather than dismissable, ie. A Candian video game writer blowing up Canada compared to a writer from the States blowing up the U.S. We lack the integrity because of our own money based refusal to represent our own nation starting with and resulting in a weak sense of pride and cultural identity in the industry. One might argue that their country say Norway has never been featured in any recent high profile media, but you most certainly have closely held modern cultural icons within the nation itself that many can feel proud of. Even if it is not video game based because it can rival that, i.e. Devastatingly powerful Heavy Metal Scene.

That is why it hurt so much coming from a Canadian Developer where it could have been dismissed coming from a foriegn one. It ignored its own nation, something all other Canadian videogame developers do.

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

P.S. I did not forget money is a key factor, but that excuse can only hold for so long.

EDIT: I guess only a couple of people saw what I was saying and gave a thoughtful comment in oposition or agreement. The rest are just too dismissive to the topic to take seriously. Thankyou for the comments but I did not get out of this what I hoped for.

I say that you are taking this way too seriously and of course you won't get out of this what you hoped for. It's a video game industry they produce video games that appeal to mass marketing so therefore if they have any bias it needs to be left behind in order to create quality product.

Another way to approach this, do you think that people in say.... Japan for example are as offended as you are that there is a Captain America but no Captain Japan? It's hard to get equality in a genre of media. Heck it's hard to get equality anywhere on anything.

If it offends you that badly and you think you need to start a crusade then complain to Bioware rather than us.

 

[Erana]

Canada has better Food Network.
I seek out Food Network Canada. You have people like Nigella.

But really, in America, for some reason the idea of other countries having patriotism doesn't seem to ever occur to anyone. Forgive our negligence, please.

 

[Aethin]

I'm usually against this whole "Canadian Pride" thing (being Canadian myself) as it's usually silly. But seeing this in Mass Effect is kinda twisting.

They could have at least called it the North American Union or something which didn't involve the Americans sitting on everyone and calling it their land.

 

[thirdsonsaburo]

Anyway. You are whining about Canada in a game about SPACE.

Step away from your homeworld, get a nice fresh breath of Citadel air. Stop and smell the ryncol.

 

[Saulkar]

Hells bells, point missed moving on.

What exactly is your point then all I see is someone whining that in a piece of FICTION their country has joined with a country they seem to deem as a piece of shit. You have not really made any good points onto why it WOULDN'T happen while complaining and saying that someone has missed the point and shouldn't bother replying to the thread anymore.There is a great topic here but you are killing it by replying to people and then dismissing everything they are saying because it does not go up with your views on the situation that my friend is an immature brat throwing a tantrum finding out that Santa isn't real

Ok here we go, one of the general ideas in my post is Canada does not represent itself enough in videogames, I am not asking to shove it in people's faces, advertise it, or focus on it solely. I just want our own industry to realise it has a home that it has made no attempt to acknowledge, something that I find detrimental for a variety of reasons. If I am dismissing valid points other people make then I am not apologising to you, I acknowledge that this may have happened more than once but I have received some incredibly stupid comments that really are taking a drain on me and thus it becomes hard to differ between the two. I apologise to them.

 

[Vetinarii]

Its just an event that happened in the mass effect universe, Canada was properly annexed since most countries formed an alliance anyway. instead of being many small, why not be one HUGE nation?.

Yeah but America owes Canada a lot of money... as it also owes Mexico a lot of money the situation is retarded, Canada would be incharge... Or China... I think China wins

I can't say I feel any national pride about my country (I'm not a huge fan of England) so getting offended over the lack of a patriotic character seems a bit alien to me (you think I really connect with the vast number of American protaganists dealing with stereotypical British villains out there?).

I have had several cases where I've noticed that my games were Canadian in origin and have also been suprised that they were usually excellent games (Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, Mass Effect and Farcry 2 to name just a few, in fact, the only bad Canadian game that sticks in my mind is Too Human).

I really don't think it's that big an issue (I can't actually think of any British or Irish developers).

Canada has better Food Network.
I seek out Food Network Canada. You have people like Nigella.

But really, in America, for some reason the idea of other countries having patriotism doesn't seem to ever occur to anyone. Forgive our negligence, please.

Nigella Lawson? The British cook? Also Bioware are CANADIAN... you are not doing well...

One being British I agree with the indifference to national pride. Two Being a fan of Fable I have to tell you LIONHEAD is British...

 

[Saulkar]

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

Culture, not nationalism, Canada is not only a nation but a self contained culture that gives people a reason and motivation to thrive, give them a sense of supporting something bigger. The country borders just ensures that is survives. Nationalism is not the target here, acknowledgement of ones culture it.

Ah, so I assume you support Quebec cultural elements then as well? Perhaps its borders should be used to protect their unique culture as well?

Look, culture is always changing, and a lot of Canadian culture does stem from American goods or products that moved over the border. Molson Canadian is owned by Americans, and 80% of the stock in the Beer Store is owned by American beer companies. To call Canada's culture 'self contained' is to negate its very nature. Unlike a lot of countries, Canadian culture is a product of constant immigration and EXTERNAL cultural elements changing things. Culture in Canada is a product of other groups. Case in point: the emergence of the English and the Loyalists after the American Revolution in Canada lead to our support of locally elected town councils.

The main reason that culture is primarily a product of other ethnic groups immigrating to Canada is because we have no ethnic identity to speak of. Canadian culture is not something we've thought up independently, but because we were linked to the rest of the world, cross-border cultural exchange occurred. It's Canada's very nature as an open society that has allowed it to gain its cultural roots.

What say you fellow Canadian Gamers? This not a sensitivity issue but rather a self cultural acknowledgement issue alone.

Dude, just because you're part of a political confederacy it doesn't mean your culture is instantly merged, they obviously wrote that fake history based off of actual economic and political treaties between the United States, Mexico, and Canada, like NAFTA. The 'Systems Alliance' is basically all the Western countries of the world getting together to use the third world as a cash candy jar. If anything, the Systems Alliance is more a commentary on Grammsci's world systems theory and globalization rather then anything else. Bioware's Alliance is a group that focuses on being human for acceptance, rather then nationality, which I prefer to blind nationalism anyway.

In fiction, burn Canada to the ground, nuke it, wipe it off the face of the earth, I don't care, I'm not sensitive enough to get worked up over it even though I do like my country, I just really don't care if it's 'represented correctly' in popular culture. If your country wants to impress, you shouldn't make up fictional stories to praise it, the country needs to do something effective in reality.

It has happened time and time again where one nation has been taken over and with the border gone its culture succumbs to the stronger one. Issolated pockets remain but because the larger nation has no interest in ensuring the survival of a unique approach to existing, it will die eventually. Look at a number of Africa's nations and tribes.

No offense but that's a really poor example, Africa's problems primarily stem from the fact that they have no real concept of the nationstate when Europeans showed up, who were able to out-produce them very easily as a result. Four hundred years of incorrectly drawn colonial borders somewhat negates positive cultural exchange. The exact opposite is for Canada, which has openly incorporated foreign cultural values as it changed over the times.

One cannot say that Canada would have been the same had the British not conquered it from the French in 1763. This was a foreign power using military force to control a colony, but I'm guessing that both you and I take that part of history as part of what defines Canada. The British largely exported their culture into our country, how is that better then a legal alliance with the rest of North America that would, in reality, probably guarantee you a number of cultural rights? Sometimes fact is stranger then fiction.

I am all for Quebec keeping their culture but they need to allow more culture in, Canada is built on letting culture in, building a unique one all in itself. I want culture to enter Canada and add to it, not dominate it.

As for Afrika, I am not a history or social major so do not quote me on that. Inform me, that is a request.

 

[clockout]

Mass effect would have been 20x greater if Shepard had a Newfie accent

"LARD TUNDERIN! THAR B'Y A BACK-LOAD OF REAPERS!"

 

[Saulkar]

I think they made up a history that they thought might realistically happen.
And given that Humanity sort of unites itself as one group in galactic politics, yeah I think Canada and Mexico could be "joined" to the US by then.

I think when humanity unites, the larger superpowers sort of engulf the smaller neighboring states/nations/provinces to make it easier and more uniform.

Realistically Canada is more likely to join the EU then the US, despite the small puddle in between. Lets face it, the US hardly has an awesome track record when it comes to not stamping "WE OWN THIS" on anything and everything they possibly can, and culturally they have far more in common with several EU member states than the US, such as free health care, and realising this isnt communist.

While I would not like it because I simply do not understand or anybody for that matter, the rammifications that would ensue, joining the EU makes more sense for Canada.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Hells bells, point missed moving on.

What exactly is your point then all I see is someone whining that in a piece of FICTION their country has joined with a country they seem to deem as a piece of shit. You have not really made any good points onto why it WOULDN'T happen while complaining and saying that someone has missed the point and shouldn't bother replying to the thread anymore.There is a great topic here but you are killing it by replying to people and then dismissing everything they are saying because it does not go up with your views on the situation that my friend is an immature brat throwing a tantrum finding out that Santa isn't real

Ok here we go, one of the general ideas in my post is Canada does not represent itself enough in videogames, I am not asking to shove it in people's faces, advertise it, or focus on it solely. I just want our own industry to realise it has a home that it has made no attempt to acknowledge, something that I find detrimental for a variety of reasons. If I am dismissing valid points other people make then I am not apologising to you, I acknowledge that this may have happened more than once but I have received some incredibly stupid comments that really are taking a drain on me and thus it becomes hard to differ between the two. I apologise to them.

Ok, now that you've made your point less rambling and more succinct, we can gain some ground. Good job, after 90 percent of the people you've responded to supposedly "missed the point". If you believe Canada does not represent itself in video games as much as it should, what would you like to see in video games that would let the rest of the world know that Canada has a unique and individual identity? In other words: What EXACTLY makes Canada different than it's proximal big brother?

 

[Kimarous]

Okay, couple things:

1) How is "BioWare in specific (...) seems to be not be taking Canada seriously as a nation"? They have a grand total of TWO games based on actual Earth history! Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Dragon Age... how do ANY of these insult Canada in any way?

2) Given the setting, it makes sense that Canada and the US would unite as a single nation for the benefit of galactic politics. It wasn't specifically stated as the US annexing us in some military takeover. Besides, in a world of galactic politics spanning many planets, why fuss over the individual nations of one planet?

3) While I too would appreciate more acknowledgement of Canada in games, how well do you think Canadian protagonists would go over in the general market? Most people view Canadians as polite, nice people; wouldn't that image clash with the concept of a Canadian action hero? It would probably be taken as seriously as nuke-dropping Ghandi in "Civilization".

4) Mass Effect's "Blood Dragon" armour is derived from the in-universe sports team "Edmonton Blood Dragons". I think that speaks for itself.

 

[TheDoctor455]

I think they made up a history that they thought might realistically happen.
And given that Humanity sort of unites itself as one group in galactic politics, yeah I think Canada and Mexico could be "joined" to the US by then.

I think when humanity unites, the larger superpowers sort of engulf the smaller neighboring states/nations/provinces to make it easier and more uniform.

And besides... isn't Bioware a Canadian-based company anyway?

So... they sort annexed themselves in their fiction.

I think it might be a typo... given that humanity has united... I think it would make more sense to get rid "nations" altogether, and just break the world into continents. Hence why Mexico and Canada are "annexed" to the US... so that they can all just be called "North America". Though... that does ruin the "I am not an American" song.

 

[Woodsey]

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
-Albert Einstein

OP, I've played tons of games where America gets the shit kicked out of it. Never cared. If it was annexed by Mexico, I still wouldn't care. At all. Do you know why most people think Americans are obnoxious? Because they have a tendency to feel superior just because they were born here; it doesn't look good on them, and it doesn't look good on you. It might be time to stop identifying so much with the slab of land you were born on, and start working on an individualistic point of view, because as it stands, you seem like the type of person that, if born in a southern American state, would petition the government to let you fly the rebel flag next to the interestate.

I'm coming to kiss you, and there's nothing you can do about it.