I am Troubled (in places) by the Dragon Age 2 Story

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Dark_Lemon

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Before I begin, massive SPOILER warning. Additionally, I intend no particular complaint against the game itself - as a standalone the writing is exceptional, the game polished and the few flaws seemingly in-keeping with a modern triple A game.... I'm looking at you Black Ops.


Today I completed Dragon Age 2 and I feel disappointed. This isn?t my typical post-completion low that most decent books, films and games give, however. I just feel under whelmed, possibly unduly.

My complaints branch into three parts. The first is pretty superficial, but with a possible bone of contention. The second is incidental and possibly pedantic. The third is a point that others have lamented elsewhere on the grand ol' web.




1) Leliana has a brief appearance at the end of the game in a piece of cinematic. This was a wonderful moment, similar to the brief cameo by Zevran - a true ? oh it?s you! Continuation and permanence to the universe! However, the woman goes on to mention the ?disappearance? of the Warden.

That just hurts! In my particular game, my Warden slew the Dragon, bit the bullet, was the hero of an age. I am aware that this dialogue can be assumed to reference the other Warden who would feature in the Awakenings DLC in such a case, but it still seems just a little contrived, given that the ?martyr? ending of DA:O is something selectable at the start of the sequel, even without an old save-game imported. The single penultimate line just seems to undermine the carry-over and I even found myself checking online that the Seeker I thought I recognised was Leliana! Song or no song, I can?t help but feel this fits-all ending doesn?t sit well with the carefully nurtured relationship I thought my DA:O Warden had created and it jarred a little. Was he not The Warden for ending the blight in the full game? It must have been a damn fine piece of DLC then! Though it still hurts that the other guy was better than me?.

A cynic could make a point here about relative story line impact of DLC compared to whole game in multi-game storylines, but that diatribe could take a while and is probably another debate for another day.




2) I loved Kirkwall as a place! The history is rich and the idea of a single location over time is ripe for plucking! ?But? I just wanted more incidental bits! The land of Thedas seems huge and incredible! Religion, magic, politics! But it?s the little incidental things that sold me in DA:O. One of my most arousal-piqued moments was a short conversation with Ash Warriors on the eve of the Battle of Ostagar. That group had no plot significance, no other reference (except in the title of a few low-level items) and added nothing to the plot except atmosphere. But they were Ferelden! Uncivilised! (by Antivan standards.) Unsubtle! (by Orlesian standards.) Colourful! (By apparent Free Marches standards.) There just seemed so little that wasn?t ad nauseum fantasy trope, or specifically Kirkwall?.. but with a single play-through only, I will happily stand corrected.




3) The ending seems rather pre-ordained. This may be petty, but in the last act, the quest ?The Last Straw?, I felt destined to fight everyone. Regardless of past choices. The divorce of control just seemed ?off?. Having gone the moderate route, yet still seen the destruction of the Chantry, I told Anders to bugger off? twice (the dense tit), I thought I had been rather a paradigm to the mages. I was on their side throughout, annoyed ol? Meridith wherever possible, fought well and still Orsino jumps to blood magic at the messy end of things?. It just doesn?t seem to fit with the image of moderation and that cultivated relationship with the player! Of course, this may be reading too much into things ? given both limitations of design and the illusion of absolute player choice, but feel a little cheated here?. Though I hope to eventually see where I forced my own hand with the endings others achieve.







OK. Complaints over! Incidentally, to give credit where due ? Sister[sic] Patrice is possible the best villain I have ever been made to hate! Exceptional writing! The detestability invoked was beyond that I have felt for a fictional character for an age! Marvellous stuff!
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Im still annoyed you couldnt just tell both of them to fuck off and take off with isabela on her ship and let them burn the city themselfs
 

el_kabong

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I think that the large problem with the story is one of it's main strong points. The telling of a story from a point where everything has already occurs limits the outcomes one can have. For example, if you were able to negotiate a peaceful solution (which was my hope), then why would the seeker be interrogating Varric all bad-cop style? Certain things about the setup wouldn't make sense if the ending was really flexible.

That being said, I really liked the manner in which the story told. I feel that it was really unique for the genre. It sacrificed some of the range of choices, but I think that it's ok.

They've ripped off a Usual Suspects-style story. In the future, I want to see a dual-campaign where you play as a father (told through flashbacks) and son, Godfather II style. That would be pretty cool.
 

Dark_Lemon

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Oct 21, 2008
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An interesting point el_kabong! I can see the problems of limitation having their own impact, but couldn?t that have been tweaked as well. If there was a second story teller say 'Otherguy' of the Kirkwall Shaperate/Chronicle Keepers... whatever, couldn't there be enough scope for wiggle room? Jump the Seeker (in the present) between the two - "Varric mentioned.... but what do you say?"


As another point, the use of this story-telling method with the two opening scenes - both as a method of showing off end-game skills with each class, and as a style-setting medium was absolutely excellent!
 

Sniper Team 4

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Hm...my Warden never died in Origins, but I'd be a little annoyed by Leliana's comment at the end too. I never thought about that.

I can understand Orsino turning to blood magic. He just watched everyone under his care be murdered for a crime THEY didn't commit. He's backed into a corner with death staring him in the face. Given the choice, I would think most people would rather fight and live (if you can call that living) than submit to an unjust death. Throw in the fact that all his pride and anger have come bubbling to the surface, and you have a very good chance of him doing what he did. What I DIDN'T understand was why he turned into that creature from Golems of Argamak. Um...what?
 

Dark_Lemon

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Sniper Team 4 said:
What I DIDN'T understand was why he turned into that creature from Golems of Argamak. Um...what?
Ha!

But to point - I agree with you regarding the reasoning for Orsino's actions... I just fear from my reading of other people's endings that there is no choice regarding the 'Final Straw' fights and if that is the case, the ending seems a tad contrived... Obviously, there is a degree of necessity for this, there are only so many endings that can be made, but I just feel a loss of control.

Regarding this sense of control, the DA:O post-game written epilogue was superlative - nuances and incidentals could be extrapolated without massive change to cinematics etc! Whilst it could be argued there's an anachronistic descent with written word, loose ends are tied and so much information purveyed, filling far more outcomes than could be hoped otherwise!
 

BloatedGuppy

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1. I'm not sure what you're talking about here. "The Warden" who has disappeared is YOUR Warden. The events at the end of DA2 are taking place something like 7 years after the end of Awakenings. Presumably something major is afoot with the Grey Wardens. We'll see in DA3.

2. Kirkwall is not as fleshed out as it could/should have been. DA as a series tends to lean too heavily on its codex for the imparting of lore. Show, don't tell.

3. Act 3 feels rushed, and you are correct about the inevitability. I think Bioware chose this route because they didn't want a "white hats and black hats" situation where you wanted to pick the correct side to back, I think they wanted you second guessing and doubting regardless of who you sided with. As to Orsino, there is some evidence in the game that he was ALWAYS a Blood Mage, or at the very least fascinated by it, and that perhaps the Templars were right to be a little suspicious of the Kirkwall Mages.
 

Dark_Lemon

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Sorry BloatedGuppy, I'll clarify my post. In my DA:O game, my Warden died. He certainly did not disappear, that fine Cousland! The problem for me was the throw-away Leliana line regarding the 'missing' Warden. I believe the Warden in that case is the one from Awakening. It just stings a little that he is 'important', epilogue-worthy and referenced by a character who I feel would be more emotionally involved with the DA:O character than a subsequent one.

I also appreciate that this could seem almost petulant, but if this is a universal post game scene, it seems out of place given the otherwise high calibre of writing in scenes intended to be applicable for players with all continued outcomes of DA:O.
 

Hader

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I had no clue that her comment at the end about the Warden was universal. Strange.

Sniper Team 4 said:
Hm...my Warden never died in Origins, but I'd be a little annoyed by Leliana's comment at the end too. I never thought about that.
It's a long shot and certainly not the best thing, but Leliana could also refer to the Warden from Awakening. That warden doesn't have to be the same warden who ended the Blight, even though I am sure most people would carry over their warden to Awakening. However it did leave open the possibility for a new warden at the beginning of Awakening, and while that warden would clearly not be as big of a deal as the one who ended the Blight...well, it is possible at least. Just not as 'cinematically' pleasing.
 

Radeonx

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Dark_Lemon said:
That just hurts! In my particular game, my Warden slew the Dragon, bit the bullet, was the hero of an age. I am aware that this dialogue can be assumed to reference the other Warden who would feature in the Awakenings DLC in such a case, but it still seems just a little contrived, given that the ?martyr? ending of DA:O is something selectable at the start of the sequel, even without an old save-game imported. The single penultimate line just seems to undermine the carry-over and I even found myself checking online that the Seeker I thought I recognised was Leliana! Song or no song, I can?t help but feel this fits-all ending doesn?t sit well with the carefully nurtured relationship I thought my DA:O Warden had created and it jarred a little. Was he not The Warden for ending the blight in the full game? It must have been a damn fine piece of DLC then! Though it still hurts that the other guy was better than me?.
You do realize that you chose the ending of Origins in Dragon Age II, right?
After the tutorial (When you can customize Hawke), you can also choose which ending occurred. You could either import the save from Origins, or have 3 predetermined ones.

You probably chose a predetermined one by accident.
 

Dark_Lemon

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Whilst possible, Radeonx, I think it's very unlikely. I'm anal to the point of predictable, my ME, ME2, DA and.... sigh.... Oblivion saves get backed up religiously. I refused to start the game till I had an acknowledgement that it had successfully uploaded he old save!

Again, I will stand corrected when the cascade of internet dissects the ending, of course!

EDIT: Also, Sir, your beard is very fine and pontificratic.... I *so* wish that was a real word!
 

Akihiko

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My warden did disappear, he went through the Eluvian. But thanks to the flag not being registered for that, Alistair seemed to think he was returning to denerim for something instead when you speak to him. Not very happy about that, really.
 

Nimcha

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What I mostly disliked was seeing Leliana with the Chantry, and not at my Warden's side... I romanced her, hardened her and all that for nothing? :( In my mind, my Warden wouldn't leave her, so I'm a little annoyed.
 

Dark_Lemon

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Ah Alistair! I've heard of troubles with his flagging, but my washed-up drunk was exceptional! I rather liked that touch, and the Bann Teagan?s 'retrieval' was especially well done! The mind boggles at the possibilities for future games given that I can't see an outcome where he's killed!
 

Dark_Lemon

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Nimcha said:
What I mostly disliked was seeing Leliana with the Chantry, and not at my Warden's side... I romanced her, hardened her and all that for nothing? :( In my mind, my Warden wouldn't leave her, so I'm a little annoyed.
I feel your pain here! It's the very reason I had to double check it was her after the game! Impersonality aside, to be improperly referenced given the save-game! Say it ain't so Leliana!
 
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Well, about the first point, I figured they were talking about Anders. You know, the warden who blew up the chantry. I'd think they would want to find him.

I let him live, so yeah. Maybe the dialog is different when he's dead.
 

Dark_Lemon

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Ah! I never considered it being Anders! That would fill the gap! Of course, it doesn't quite fit when he's being referred to as 'The Warden' alongside 'The Champion'. Though this may be me reading too deep into a throw-away cinematic.
 

Soviet Heavy

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I was mad at no middle road. I am the Champion of KIRKWALL, not Champion of the Mages, or Champion of the Templars. I wanted to fight for the people, to prevent the two psychos from killing the innocents caught in the crossfire.
 

Woodsey

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Hader said:
I had no clue that her comment at the end about the Warden was universal. Strange.

Sniper Team 4 said:
Hm...my Warden never died in Origins, but I'd be a little annoyed by Leliana's comment at the end too. I never thought about that.
It's a long shot and certainly not the best thing, but Leliana could also refer to the Warden from Awakening. That warden doesn't have to be the same warden who ended the Blight, even though I am sure most people would carry over their warden to Awakening. However it did leave open the possibility for a new warden at the beginning of Awakening, and while that warden would clearly not be as big of a deal as the one who ended the Blight...well, it is possible at least. Just not as 'cinematically' pleasing.
Seems like a bit of a jump. I can't imagine they thought that people would assume they were talking about the guy from Awakenings, when (if you're looking for someone to save the world oh so heroically again) The Warden is the Warden everyone's going to be thinking of.

They're obviously trying to set something up, but my Warden also died, meaning the whole "connection" was completely non-existent. Its a very bizarre oversight.