I asked an theist this and didn't get an answer. Can you help?

[OwenEdwards]

How very few of the posts in this thread relate to the question...and how many make fallacious propositions (you can't trust in science and be religious, the definition of a reasoned argument is apparently that it dismisses God, etc, etc).

I'm religious (an Anglican Christian in fact, doing a Theology degree), and an amateur naturalist who also loves chemistry and, yknow, thinks science is a good thing... so I'll take a pop at the original, interesting question.

There's a problem with the question, that amongst any group of believers (whether ye believe in Christ, Allah, the bodhisvatas or the Dawkins), there are a variety of opinions on every matter - most strikingly about what "inclusion" means.

I'm a universalist - that means my theological view on salvation is that there is no hell and we're all off to Heaven in the end. Now there's lots of reasons why I believe this; intellectual and aesthetic attraction to the Orthodox idea of deification, the illogicality and non-Scriptural nature of hell, and most certainly my own emotional baggage and value system.

So I don't think you need to believe in my God or any god to go to the Heaven I believe in.

However: as some have hinted, it may be the case that - for one reason or another - belief is healthier than non-belief. For me I'd qualify that as belief in something life-giving (not necessarily the Christian God), not life-destroying; whatever that means. The atheist psychologist might say "imaginary friend = sanity" (to quote someone above), whilst the priest might say that being in touch with your spiritual side is vital - to quote Marcel, "the ontological sense". Spirituality, in Marcel's philosophy, asserts that we have a value in ourselves, not just by what we do - and so by having that ontological sense we are more in touch with our base reality.

Hope that helps, as pretentious as it all sounds.

 

[ThreeWords]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

But gravity can be mathematically proven, unlike God (unless you listen to Euler [cookie for quote])

my basis for believing in God is because of the physical and historical evidence. Plus in the fact that even though science is one of my favorite subjects, has failed to give me a proper alternitive to creationism aside from Albert Einstein when he said "when we die, we return to the source from which our energy comes from" or at least i think it was him who said it, but that still implies intelligent design.

Myself, I always found that belief in a power that is beyond both logic and human comprehension requires no rational reason. I don't need proof, I just know
Methinks it's called faith =P

To collect evidence to prove you're right is, to me, to be an admittance of doubt, and an attempt to ratify said doubt

 

[Ladie Au Pair]

No one needs a god, or needs a belief in a god. I myself am an atheist. Rather than typing out everything I believe, I think it would simply be easier to link you this video which shows atheist speak Richard Dawkins discussing his book "The God Delusion."

It's a 6 video play list and I recommended watching them all.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=10230C4B600FF0B9

 

[Ladie Au Pair]

my basis for believing in God is because of the physical and historical evidence. Plus in the fact that even though science is one of my favorite subjects, has failed to give me a proper alternitive to creationism aside from Albert Einstein when he said "when we die, we return to the source from which our energy comes from" or at least i think it was him who said it, but that still implies intelligent design. Furthermore, one of the biggest atheists/anti-creationists Richard Dawkins admitted that to a small degree he believes in intelligent design, so that kind of puts a large dent into atheism when one of its biggest advocates says somthing like that

2 Things.
1.Albert was an atheist:

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

He was simply stating that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

2. Dawkins does not believe in intelligent design at all. You are mixing up some of this thoughts. Rather than trying to quote Dawkins I'm just going to link you to one a video of him speaking. Somewhere in this play list he explains his views... I believe has calls the intelligent design method a "sky hook" when only "cranes" can make sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcYDkZcLAug

 

[Inverse Skies]

I honestly don't know what exists out there... I assume not simply through studies of evolution and space... but I could be equally as wrong.

I'm just going to be happy with the idea that I'll be rather indifferent to the idea of religion and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Dubster]

I need to believe in the flying spaghetti monster or I would be up all night worrying where noodles come from.

RAmen

 

[shadowstriker86]

my basis for believing in God is because of the physical and historical evidence. Plus in the fact that even though science is one of my favorite subjects, has failed to give me a proper alternitive to creationism aside from Albert Einstein when he said "when we die, we return to the source from which our energy comes from" or at least i think it was him who said it, but that still implies intelligent design. Furthermore, one of the biggest atheists/anti-creationists Richard Dawkins admitted that to a small degree he believes in intelligent design, so that kind of puts a large dent into atheism when one of its biggest advocates says somthing like that

2 Things.
1.Albert was an atheist:

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

He was simply stating that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

2. Dawkins does not believe in intelligent design at all. You are mixing up some of this thoughts. Rather than trying to quote Dawkins I'm just going to link you to one a video of him speaking. Somewhere in this play list he explains his views... I believe has calls the intelligent design method a "sky hook" when only "cranes" can make sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcYDkZcLAug

1. Never said einstein believed in God, only stated somthing that implied intelligent design.

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlirc

 

[Sayvara]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

That was so silly...

I believe in gravity. Why? Because I can test that it exists.

How do I test that God exists?

/S

 

[Sayvara]

So I don't think you need to believe in my God or any god to go to the Heaven I believe in.

Ok, finally an answer.

However: as some have hinted, it may be the case that - for one reason or another - belief is healthier than non-belief. For me I'd qualify that as belief in something life-giving (not necessarily the Christian God), not life-destroying; whatever that means. The atheist psychologist might say "imaginary friend = sanity" (to quote someone above), whilst the priest might say that being in touch with your spiritual side is vital - to quote Marcel, "the ontological sense". Spirituality, in Marcel's philosophy, asserts that we have a value in ourselves, not just by what we do - and so by having that ontological sense we are more in touch with our base reality.

Hope that helps, as pretentious as it all sounds.

Well it doesn't answer the question about whether there is a need to believe or not (apart from what was said above).

/S

 

[shadowstriker86]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

That was so silly...

I believe in gravity. Why? Because I can test that it exists.

How do I test that God exists?

/S

Dont need to test if theres already historical evidence. Gravity had to be tested to see if it exists.

 

[Ignignoct]

One of the great sports of YouTube is for atheists and theists to throw questions at eachother... titles such as "5 Questions Every Intelligent Atheist MUST Answer" and "10 Questions All Theists Should Answer." and their RE:s are all over the Believers vs Skeptics battlefield. What most keep forgetting in this shouting match is that one should not ask rethorical questions unless you are absolutely sure you won't get an unfavourable answer back...

One of these questioners is philos71 (a.k.a Tony). The guy's a pretty decent amateur film-maker with neat little skills in composition, editing and sound editing, something I wish I had myself. He is one of the originators of these "questions they must answer" vids.

I sent him a question in PM and didn't get an answer. This is kind of sad because I was honestly curious what his arguments for it would be. I didn't expect him to not be able to answer but rather that he would. But here I am... with an unanswered question. So maybe you can help? I'll quote...

Heya Tony!

I have a really quick question for you. Here it is:

Do I need to believe in God?

This question is somewhat open to interpretation, which makes the answer possibly complex, so let me clarify a few things about it.

"I" in this context means "I, an average, nonspecific person, living somewhere in the world, presumably Europe, the US or a similar cultures". It does not mean "I" personally as in "I, [my name], Swedish citizen with personal ID number [ID number]". "I" in this context could possibly be interchanged for "anyone" or "everyone" but that would probably make you focus on the wrong things when answering. "I" here means the average Joe... which could be anyone, or we could see everyone as average Joes... I think you get the point.

"Do I need" in this context means "Is it necessary for me to...". It does not mean "Do I have a need", as in a need on the Maslow Hierarcy of Needs, where I am certain a belief in something grander, unseen and explainatory for the mystries of the wonders and unfairnesses of our existance fits in somewhere. It's not that kind of need I'm talking about but rather if there is something that necessitates me to believe in God in order to lead a good, healthy, productive and fulfilling life.

And finally, "God" in this context is the abrahamic god descibed in various religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam et al.

I am very much looking forward to your answer Tony. Thank you for your time.

So... with no answer from Tony, I'm posting it to a somewhat bigger audience. Skeptics and atheists... I pretty much guessed your answer which can be summarized as "No you don't". What I am really curious about is if there is anyone out there that has a dissenting opinion and can present arguments for it.

So... is there?

/S

Needs are subjective and vary from person to person. If anyone tries to sell you on the idea that faith is or isn't needed across the board, they're either blindly arrogant, or making money off it. Notice my complete lack of acknowledgment of the irony of posting that absolute statement myself. Oh damn, I just did >.<...

The universe is complex, overwhelming, and uncaring. Some say this makes existence meaningless, some say it makes it all the more beautiful, some are just scared shitless.

I say that a surprising amount of people who identify themselves as Christian don't actually believe in God. They don't think they're going to heaven when they die, they just want Hell-insurance. They don't think that working on Sunday is a sin worthy of death. They don't apply 2,000 year old morality to modern times. They certainly don't turn the other cheek when wronged.

Beliefs can change, and may or may not significantly control behavior.

I say don't worry about it nearly as much as their actions and demeanor, which are far more accurate indicators of how they do/don't matter to YOU in a personal way. Some of the best people I've known were deeply religious, and if it works for them, I could never fault them for it.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

That was so silly...

I believe in gravity. Why? Because I can test that it exists.

How do I test that God exists?

/S

Prove that gravity exists and that invisible flying spaghetti monsters are not just pulling everything to the floor.

 

[Uncompetative]

Christians are theists as well...

...monotheists to be more precise...

I always found that slight amusing, where Christians insist that the God they believe in is both one single God, and at the same time, three separate beings, all of whom are no less than the one single God

The idea just doesn't work. Here it is in algebra

1 God = 3 Gods
(divide by God)
1 =/= 3

or

God/3 = God
(divide by God)
1/3 =/= 1

I believe its called 'reducto ad absurdum', or proof by contradiction. The idea put forward leads to something that cannot happen, therefore the first idea also cannot happen.

Er...

Replace 'God' by "infinity" and you will find that the math works fine.

i.e. infinity divided by any number smaller than infinity is still infinity.

As we have all been told... 'God is infinite'

QED

Touche =D
Well said

However, infinity is not a real number. It only exists theoretically for the purpose of wierd and wonderful advanced calculations. It is no more than an abstract, and in the real world, cannot exist. Are 'God' and 'infinity' still interchangeable?

For the record, I'm not against God, but I like to have a hack at things.
Like testing for weak points in an idea to improve the greater whole.

Actually, I never said God was real.

"However, God is not a real thing. God only exists theologically for the purpose of weird and wonderful advanced metaphysics. God is no more than an abstract (existing in thought or as an idea, but not having a physical or concrete existence - hence a metaphysical existence), and does not exist in tangible reality. So 'God' and 'infinity' are still harmonious concepts."

By the way, I am a devout Atheist.

And I, on the other hand, am a free-lance theist

Are you sure we're arguing the right sides here?

I'm not sure about anything. That's why I'm more likely to be right...

But that makes you an Agnostic, unless you believe for certain that there is no God

"God" is a theological concept, not a tangible thing.

Going back to Mathematics it is a lot like me being able to eat 3 bananas (as they are tangible things), but not being able to eat 3 (which is an abstract concept).

So I can be "not sure about anything", whilst preferring to believe that there is no God. Based on no evidence either way.

 

[Skeleon]

Well, all Dawkins said is that basically nobody can know for sure but he doesn't believe in it. I don't see the problem, it's impossible to disprove god or anything supernatural for which there is no prove, either.

As for intelligent design, there are many things that argue against it, such as the humans' tail bone, inner ear, mitochondria, the extremely close relation between all things living on Earth...

 

[Ignignoct]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

That was so silly...

I believe in gravity. Why? Because I can test that it exists.

How do I test that God exists?

/S

Dont need to test if theres already historical evidence. Gravity had to be tested to see if it exists.

It always existed, and everything experiences it. Like germs.

And don't say that everything experiences God, because I know that's what you're thinking.*

To say that sunsets and complex animals and organisms are experiencing "God" does nothing to steer one towards the Judeo-Christian God as being the author of said things. Know how I know? Because ancient peoples all made up gods to represent them =p.

*I know that, because as an Atheist, I have a direct link to Satan, who is hiding in your closet telepathically sending you temptation impulses so that you may turn away from God, leaving your Soul to the Devil. [cackle+mustache-twirl]

 

[Voicuboyy]

pretty much no, you don't need to believe in anything at all, it has no sense in believing in an almighty god that does anything and knows everything. seriously just live your life like it is, don't think about it, if there is a god you'll find out when you die as they say, and i'll probably go to hell with every other atheist and non-christian

 

[RavingPenguin]

Heya Tony!

I have a really quick question for you. Here it is:

Do I need to believe in God?

This question is somewhat open to interpretation, which makes the answer possibly complex, so let me clarify a few things about it.

"I" in this context means "I, an average, nonspecific person, living somewhere in the world, presumably Europe, the US or a similar cultures". It does not mean "I" personally as in "I, [my name], Swedish citizen with personal ID number [ID number]". "I" in this context could possibly be interchanged for "anyone" or "everyone" but that would probably make you focus on the wrong things when answering. "I" here means the average Joe... which could be anyone, or we could see everyone as average Joes... I think you get the point.

"Do I need" in this context means "Is it necessary for me to...". It does not mean "Do I have a need", as in a need on the Maslow Hierarcy of Needs, where I am certain a belief in something grander, unseen and explainatory for the mystries of the wonders and unfairnesses of our existance fits in somewhere. It's not that kind of need I'm talking about but rather if there is something that necessitates me to believe in God in order to lead a good, healthy, productive and fulfilling life.

And finally, "God" in this context is the abrahamic god descibed in various religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam et al.

I am very much looking forward to your answer Tony. Thank you for your time.

(Im going to be flamed for my beliefs Im sure)
If your talking about the christian religion, than no you dont. An omnsicient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God exists whether you beleive in him or not. As to the question of heaven and hell, Yes you do need to accept God as your lord to go to heaven, or, as the Bible teaches, you go to hell. However we have all been given free will, so the choice is up to you, no one controls your life but you.

 

[Ignignoct]

Well, all Dawkins said is that basically nobody can know for sure but he doesn't believe in it. I don't see the problem, it's impossible to disprove god or anything supernatural for which there is no prove, either.

As for intelligent design, there are many things that argue against it, such as the humans' tail bone, inner ear, mitochondria, the extremely close relation between all things living on Earth...

Mitochondria?

What's so killer about that?

I know what it is, and that it's ufkcing awesome, but why does it impact ID?

 

[Voicuboyy]

I love messing with atheists. This is a great question i ask them and it always turns out like this:

M = Me
A = Atheist


M = So you dont believe in God right?

A = Any deity / Nope

M = Well, do you know what gravity is?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So you believe that gravity exists?

A = Yes / Ya, so what?

M = So can you see gravity?

A = No.

M = So you believe in a higher source of power that you can't see?

A = .....


lmao it never gets old for me

That was so silly...

I believe in gravity. Why? Because I can test that it exists.

How do I test that God exists?

/S

Dont need to test if theres already historical evidence. Gravity had to be tested to see if it exists.

there is historical evidence that gravity also existed.. for example.. no book/glyph or whatever says anything about people flying .. and yeah there is no historical evidence that god existed, idiot, just because someone sayd: god gave me a child in a 300 year old book doesn't mean god existed.. i hate you

 

[Sayvara]

How do I test that God exists?

Dont need to test if theres already historical evidence. Gravity had to be tested to see if it exists.

Then the test is to examine the evidence. What's the evidence?

/S