I blame Disney+Lucasfilm on the fans.

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ShogunGino

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INCOMING RANT AND MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT

Since it's going to be so long, and probably boring to many people, I'll just put in spoiler tags.

A while ago, I found that I cannot go to nearly any part of the internet that does not have someone bemoaning his disdain for the Star Wars prequels, and deifying the originals. Naturally, this is all part of fandom; there are going to be good and bad examples of fans and followers of every aspect of media. Unfortunately, I find Star Wars fans to be amongst the most inescapable and unrelenting of whiners, next to Transformers G1 fans and both the Twilight haters and lovers. And now that Lucasfilm has been acquired by Disney, it seems that the joy will never end.

Never has there been a larger group of people who claim that someone "raped their childhood"; a phrase that I have gradually hated more and more. If some CGI additions and three underwhelming prequel films are enough to make you feel raped, then you are a sad, pathetic human being. I've seen recent film versions of things I grew up watching (Garfield, Alvin and the Chipmunks), and the crappy results thereof, but here's the thing, I got over it. As much as I love the art of film making and the historical impact it can have, I know when to take a step back and say "It's just a movie."

Perhaps its because I never really liked Star Wars all that much. I was around 7 or 8 when the special editions were released to theaters, and those were my first times watching the series. Not long afterwards, my family got the VHS boxset containing all three special editions, and I all but never watched them. Unlike other kids who saw the series, it never griped me from a a young age. Some might say it was because I saw the special editions, but I think that's horseshit, because the story was virtually untouched. Oh, I think the films are fun enough, but I cannot empathize with people who grew up loving these movies from a young age because, whatever it was, I didn't have the same reactions.

Which is why I wondered why so many people were antagonistic towards Phantom Menace when it was released. Yes, I was a child, and I later learned how to formulate my opinions better, but I still didn't understand so much of the hatred towards it. A few years after that, I started taking movies more seriously, and I began to understand why people didn't like them, but upon re-examining the original three, I didn't find THAT much to be enraptured about.

A New Hope is a bunch of stock characters that don't really develop at all over the course of the movie. It's plot is a standard good vs evil empire story that only won audiences back in the day with its astonishing visual presentation and memorable soundtrack. Only those who were children back then thought that the story was unique.

Empire Strikes Back...oh God, if I were to choose any movie that I thought was the most overrated of all time, it's this one. Too long have I seen fans hold up this film as a bastion of cinematic perfection, flawless and undeniable...*sigh* I can't stand Han Solo's whining throughout most of the movie, Harrison Ford's and Carrie Fisher's chemistry was terrible, their dialog was just as clunky as Anakin and Padme, the entire Hoth sequence was poorly paced, those iconic AT-AT and AT-ST walkers are stupidly designed vehicles of war, the crew on the Falcon should have been sucked into space when they stepped outside the ship inside the asteroid-worm, Yoda was poorly introduced, and Luke should have died when he fell after hearing Vader was his father. The only good things I can say are that Darth Vader is at his best in this movie, and the third act on Cloud City was excellent. But until that point, I find the movie to be a chore to watch.

Return of the Jedi, while being my favorite of the six, is still a retread of A New Hope, and it has a slow, plodding sequence with the Ewok village before they get back to the story. I do think everyone's performance is better in this movie, so while I don't find it to be any more original than New Hope, I find it easier to sit through.

The prequels are a bit easier to criticize because all three share the same problems. They lack a strong central villain, the way Darth Vader was in the originals (Palpatine almost counts, but he's not in the spotlight enough), and all three have too much emphasis on political subtext. Dialog and chemistry were stiff, just as they always were. Yes, Jar Jar is a bad character, but I'm honestly rather indifferent to him. I easily see how people don't like him, but I never really hated him. Hayden Christensen did not do that good a job acting, and General Grievous was a lame unless you saw the 2D Clone Wars show.

Yeah, its a bit of a first-world problem to feel outcast because you like to be in the sci-fi fan community but you don't really like the originals and don't think the prequels deserved so much hate but can't really tell anyone because the horde of fanboys will tear down any flame shield you can possibly construct. The lazier of whom will just post a link to RedLetterMedia's take on the movies and call it a day. If any of the overwhelmingly nitpicky fans dared to turn such an attitude to the original three, they would find just as many problems. If the originals were brand new, released today, they would never escape the scrutiny that comes with being a piece of fictional media in the internet age. Nostalgia is it's only defense.

Regarding the prequels, no, they aren't that good, but do you really consider them to be so soul-crushing? Did you never learn that practically nothing will ever be as good as your expectations? Do you really let three mere movies ruin your faith in humanity or whatever it is you like to complain about? I know some movies can really leave a mark, but did you never learn to accept that something you didn't like was made and just move on? Was all your griping worth it?

Cut to a few years later, and I'm seeing "George 'Raped My Childhood' Lucas" shirts floating around, I'm hearing people claim that no one hates Star Wars more than George Lucas, and I STILL hear people complaining about these movies that came out years ago. Then I see that Jake Lloyd, the boy whose performance as Anakin in Phantom Menace was widely criticized, retired early from acting because of the never-ending teasing and insults he received at such an early age, and still receives to this day. It was around this time that I began thinking that Star Wars fans should be ashamed of themselves. He was 10. Not many people are great actors at that age. He could have gotten better. Do you really think a 10 year-old deserves to be insulted out of acting for just ONE movie?

I may not agree with some of the changes in the special editions (ex. I really don't mind Han not shooting first, but the scene is a modified image and it looks terrible as an effect, and Hayden Christensen doesn't belong at the end of Jedi.), but I do think Lucas does have a point when he says "Fine. But my movie, with my name on it, that says I did it, needs to be the way I want it." (from an interview about Star Wars and Red Tails. Link in spoiler tag.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/17/george-lucas-done-with-star-wars-red-tails_n_1210951.html

They are his movies to do with as he pleases. His ideas, his direction, his production, his movies. While I am someone who always advocates the availability of older versions and I don't approve of his reluctance at releasing the theatrical cuts anymore, I'm fine with him doing what he wants with these movies.

For nearly everyone else however, the whining never stops, the insults and accusations do not cease, and people like me get sick of seeing it absolutely bloody everywhere.

And apparently, George is, too. "Why would I make any more," Lucas says, "when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?" (from the same interview in the previous spoiler tag).

So, is it any wonder that Lucas is letting Star Wars go into someone else's hands without a fight? He's been blamed for every lackluster thing to come out of the franchise, even if he didn't do anything to make them. Do you really think he had much of a hand at all in Star Wars: Kinect? Don't be ridiculous. People have blamed him for ego-mania by putting his name on everything. Well, duh, his name on everything, his STUDIO is called Lucasfilm. The studio that makes games based off his movies is called Lucasarts. Of course they have his name on it, he's the origin point of all this, he is the original creator, they HAVE to use his name, they are making things based on HIS creation. But that doesn't mean he MAKES all this rubbish, plenty of others do that for him.

We all know that Lucas was damned if he did and damned if he didn't in regards to his response of the acquisition by Disney. He can't even mention Star Wars without fans desperately whining in vain to protect a couple movies. Better to let someone else hold the target on their ass after yours has been shot to death. Still, Disney did a fair job so far with the Marvel license, so it doesn't look like the end of the world. Not to me, at least.

But I am just one person, and I am not important enough to matter. To so many others who think they DO matter, a few changes to a few movies are the worst things to happen to humanity, they will never be satisfied.

He is far from being an extraordinary filmmaker, never has been, but I never thought George deserved all the dickheads that hound his every breath.

So to all the unrelenting, unforgiving, and perpetually unhappy Star Wars "fans" out there, I say look at what you've done. You mocked a boy out of his acting career and you drove a man to hardly care anymore about his creation because you think it belongs to you and only you.

Give yourselves a round of applause. /rant

No TL:DR, because I had a lot to say, and I really needed to vent.

EDIT: People are mistaking me. I do NOT think that Star Wars going to Disney is a BAD thing. I just want to clarify that.
 

pilouuuu

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Well, I didn't bother myself to read all your wall of text, but I can tell you this. Lucas created an amazing universe and A New Hope was a great movie, unlike anything that was made before. It's pure entertainment much like Avengers nowadays. But that movie was like a one hit-wonder. The guy is simply not a good director.

He became a control freak, surrounded by yes-men with the prequels. He also though that CGI would replace all the hand-crafted effects by talented people.

I can't help but feel a bit sad about him, but when I think that the reason people complain about the prequels is that he lost almost everything that made the originals great. OT was about spirituality and heroism. In the prequels he made a movie with kids in minds. Retarded kids. I didn't need comic relief characters, midichlorians or light saber dance to enjoy the OT. He also should never had put Anakin as a brat or an annoying emo teenager. Besides that, he received 4 billion dollars for selling his company, so no, I don't feel sad about him anymore and I say good riddance!

I'm happy Disney took the franchise from his butcher hands and I'm sure that they'll make something better than the prequels.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Yes.

Let's blame the fans that the Star Wars franchise is now in the hands of someone who can potentially do some great things with it.

Good job guys :D
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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So OP, you're saying your first experience with Star Wars was the special edition in the bloody theaters at the age of 7, and you weren't a fan for life? OP confirmed for emotionless robot :p
 

BloatedGuppy

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ShogunGino said:
INCOMING RANT AND MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT
Jesus Christ, I actually read the whole thing.

Since I imagine you posted this in a public space for feedback, I will indulge you.

1. You are getting way too worked up about the use of the phrase "raped my childhood". I don't like colloquial abuse of the word "rape" either because I think it dilutes a crime people have a hard enough time taking seriously as it is, but FFS you know what they mean. Rape DOES have other meanings, and you're being willfully obstinate if you think they're actually attempting to create a collation between having their nostalgia trampled and getting forcibly violated. This kind of pedantic nitpicking is completely senseless, it makes you look far more anal retentive than the angry fans you are berating.

2. It seems a little strange to whine about fan reaction when your counterpoint is fan reaction. Right? I'm sure you can understand this. Telling people they are being stupid for hating something because YOU didn't hate it is not a cogent argument.

3. If you're sick of seeing people complain about Star Wars, stop entering Star Wars conversations or penning Star Wars threads on forums. Star Wars is not a topic that is hard to avoid. I can go years without talking about or hearing about Star War if I so choose. This isn't politics. You're not getting blitzed with ads day and night about the shoddy prequels.

4. George Lucas needs to shut the fuck up and grow a thicker skin. A hostile reaction to your art is a valid reaction to your art. Whining that you're going to take your ball and go home because no one likes you is a child's reaction to criticism. If you put your art in a public space, you have invited public opinion. If you CHARGE the public for the privilege of viewing your art, then you have absolutely no grounds whatsoever to moan about receiving feedback. We went through this same idiotic debate during the ME3 debacle, and truth there was the truth here. These people are selling you a product. Yes, it is an artistic expression, but they didn't do it for you as a favor. You are well within your rights to say "I did not like this." Now, does this mean people should threaten the man's life, or talk about burning his house down? Of course not. But you are not making any distinction here between degrees of butthurt. You're just throwing a blanket over everyone who disliked the prequels and screaming "Shame on you", as if not liking a thing was a crime.

5. Jake Lloyd was a terrible actor. Even as a child actor he was dreadful. There is limited blame that can be attributed to Jake for this, though. For one thing, Lucas is notorious for not being an "actor's director". He gets Ed Wood quality performances out of talented professionals. For another thing, we'd already seen Jake Lloyd in Jingle All The Way and he was terrible there too, so why on earth he got cast is anyone's guess. Maybe he rocked the audition, and the blame lies entirely with Lucas. Whatever the case, picking on poor Jake Lloyd is absolutely ridiculous, you're right. Ironically, you go on to castigate Hayden Christensen for bad acting when he was suffering from the exact same thing as Lloyd, but whatever. We have already established that consistency is not your strong suit.

6. Your dislike for the original Star Wars films is not surprising, we're not talking about Citizen Kane here. But you are viewing them completely out of context. Imagine if, say, The Avengers was the only movie of its type in existence, and everyone else was putting out "A Room With a View" and "Howard's End". It would seem a lot more special, wouldn't it? These films, along with Jaws, CREATED this concept/tradition of the effects laden event film. It was a precursor, a trailblazer. There was nothing else like it. The models and effects were so ahead of their time that with a little digital touch up they actually look BETTER today than the CGI does. And while the acting and storyboarding is rudimentary at best, the films have a humanity than the prequels lack. Lawrence Kasdan is not a bad writer. Irvin Kershner is a competent director. There are elements of accomplished cinematography, and acting, set structure, framing, pacing, etc. They might not be extraordinary films, but they are COMPETENT films. The same is not true of the prequels. And really, we're not going to get into why. You know why. You're obviously familiar with the arguments, since you hate them so much. You are comparing Dragon's Age 2 to Ultima IV and wondering why the former is so reviled and the latter so revered. And I actually really hate to compare the prequels to Dragons Age 2, because Dragons Age 2 had some good moments. It's an intellectually bankrupt comparison. And frankly, even in a head on comparison with context completely thrown out the window, the originals are still better films.

ShogunGino said:
If any of the overwhelmingly nitpicky fans dared to turn such an attitude to the original three, they would find just as many problems.
No, they wouldn't. Not nearly as many. And not on fundamental film making techniques, either.

Anyway, I'm glad for you, that you like the prequels. I wish I liked them too. Liking things is nice. But your problem here is entirely of your own making. You may want to take a deep breath and let people care about what they want to care about, and stop trying to edit people's enjoyment of media to fit your perceptions of the world. You'll lead a happier life.

And if you want to champion someone's cause, there are more worthy candidates for your time and attention than multi-billionares who are having a sad little cry because the fans don't appreciate their horrible prequels.
 

Fappy

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Daystar Clarion said:
Yes.

Let's blame the fans that the Star Wars franchise is now in the hands of someone who can potentially do some great things with IT.

Good job guys :D
I really don't get why people are flipping out about this. Disney will probably bring the franchise back on track.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Fappy said:
I really don't get why people are flipping out about this. Disney will probably bring the franchise back on track.
My friend sent me an amusing quote this morning...

"Worrying that Disney will ruin Star Wars is like worrying that a second iceberg will dive down to hit the Titanic."
 

Eclectic Dreck

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ShogunGino said:
They are his movies to do with as he pleases. His ideas, his direction, his production, his movies. While I am someone who always advocates the availability of older versions and I don't approve of his reluctance at releasing the theatrical cuts anymore, I'm fine with him doing what he wants with these movies.
A piece of art, once released to public viewing, becomes a collaboration. The final account of the worth of the thing is based upon a person's collective experience. When you come along after releasing your masterwork to public viewing and make substantive changes, the audience has every right to be upset.

The classic example is the alteration so that Han Shoots last. This is a relatively minor change, certainly - a tiny fraction of a percent of the film. But this was an incredibly important second because it informed our perception of Han's character. With this change, the artist is effectively saying "What you experienced was wrong". Making a change of this sort is nothing short of a betrayal of the sacred covenant between artist and audience.

Does George have the right to make such a change? In every sense of the word. He owns the properties after all - there was no legal means to stop such a thing. But just because he has the right doesn't make it right. He had his chance 30 years ago to show that Han shot second. He chose to make it, at best, ambiguous.
 

antidonkey

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I don't see how Disney could mess up the Star Wars franchise any worse so this buy out doesn't bother in the slightest. Will it result in better movies? I can't say. I'll make that call when the next one is released.
 

ShogunGino

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BloatedGuppy said:
Jesus Christ, I actually read the whole thing.
I appreciate it.

1. You are getting way too worked up about the use of the phrase "raped my childhood". I don't like colloquial abuse of the word "rape" either because I think it dilutes a crime people have a hard enough time taking seriously as it is, but FFS you know what they mean. Rape DOES have other meanings, and you're being willfully obstinate if you think they're actually attempting to create a collation between having their nostalgia trampled and getting forcibly violated. This kind of pedantic nitpicking is completely senseless, it makes you look far more anal retentive than the angry fans you are berating.
I did, in fact, use to think like this, but over time, my tolerance for it dropped lower and lower. And yes, I do know that "rape" has more than one meaning, but I'm fairly certain that people who claim "raped my childhood" don't rely on the other meanings.

2. It seems a little strange to whine about fan reaction when your counterpoint is fan reaction. Right? I'm sure you can understand this. Telling people they are being stupid for hating something because YOU didn't hate it is not a cogent argument. If you're sick of seeing people complain about Star Wars, stop entering Star Wars conversations or penning Star Wars threads on forums. Star Wars is not a topic that is hard to avoid. I can go years without talking about or hearing about Star War if I so choose. This isn't politics. You're not getting blitzed with ads day and night about the shoddy prequels.
It's a nasty paradox that if you criticize fan movement, its based on your own fan movement, and it makes you look hypocritical. I see the hypocrisy, but I don't see many ways around it. I wish I had your ability to not hear about Star Wars, because I DON'T go to ST forums and such, but somehow, on unrelated things across the internet, it finds me. I wish I was kidding.

4. George Lucas needs to shut the fuck up and grow a thicker skin. A hostile reaction to your art is a valid reaction to your art. Whining that you're going to take your ball and go home because no one likes you is a child's reaction to criticism. If you put your art in a public space, you have invited public opinion. If you CHARGE the public for the privilege of viewing your art, then you have absolutely no grounds whatsoever to moan about receiving feedback. We went through this same idiotic debate during the ME3 debacle, and truth there was the truth here. These people are selling you a product. Yes, it is an artistic expression, but they didn't do it for you as a favor. You are well within your rights to say "I did not like this." Now, does this mean people should threaten the man's life, or talk about burning his house down? Of course not. But you are not making any distinction here between degrees of butthurt. You're just throwing a blanket over everyone who disliked the prequels and screaming "Shame on you", as if not liking a thing was a crime.
True, I didn't really edit my rant with the precision that I should have, so the distinctions of butthurt are blurred. My fault there. But my point is that George has had to deal with this for a long time now, and people HAVE threatened his life, for petty reasons. The people who say such things were my target. I don't care if people merely dislike things. The ME3 ending thing, I actually stayed away from the game when it came out to hear fan reactions to the ending, and I guess I'm glad I did, but I'm a careful consumer when it comes to things like that. I probably wouldn't have had the same reaction to it others did, its just not me, but its amazing what a little DLC can do for public opinion.

5. Ironically, you go on to castigate Hayden Christensen for bad acting when he was suffering from the exact same thing as Lloyd, but whatever. We have already established that consistency is not your strong suit.
Hayden hasn't been teased out of film, he still acts. The same cannot be said for Jake. That's why I didn't bring it up.

6. But you are viewing them completely out of context. These films, along with Jaws, CREATED this concept/tradition of the effects laden event film. It was a precursor, a trailblazer. There was nothing else like it. Lawrence Kasdan is not a bad writer. Irvin Kershner is a competent director. There are elements of accomplished cinematography, and acting, set structure, framing, pacing, etc. They might not be extraordinary films, but they are COMPETENT films. The same is not true of the prequels. And really, we're not going to get into why. You know why. You're obviously familiar with the arguments, since you hate them so much. And frankly, even in a head on comparison with context completely thrown out the window, the originals are still better films.
Do understand, I am aware of Star Wars' place in cinema history, but just because it was a trailblazer doesn't mean that should defend it against future criticism. We'll have to disagree here because I don't think Kershner directed his actors that well in Empire. Neither do I think its pacing was that good. Nor do I think the dialog was that great. While others groan at "Are you an angel?" and "I hate sand. It's coarse, rough, it gets everywhere.", I facepalm at "scruffy-looking nerf-herder". I agree there are elements of competence in Empire, but not enough.

No, they wouldn't. Not nearly as many. And not on fundamental film making techniques, either.
Perhaps not. It's probably just exaggeration on my part, but they would find holes in the story, grievous ones at that.(no pun intended) And no one really talks about them because they are so revered.

Anyway, I'm glad for you, that you like the prequels. But your problem here is entirely of your own making. You may want to take a deep breath and let people care about what they want to care about, and stop trying to edit people's enjoyment of media to fit your perceptions of the world. You'll lead a happier life.

And if you want to champion someone's cause, there are more worthy candidates for your time and attention than multi-billionares who are having a sad little cry because the fans don't appreciate their horrible prequels.
Honestly, I can't really say I "like" the prequels, just like how I can't really say I "like" the originals. But I defend them only on the basis that I can't find as much to hate about them as so many others have. And like I said before, I needed to vent, so I probably sounded more anal-retentive than I really am. Also, I am not trying to champion any cause, or whatever, I just wanted to get something off my chest that's been building up for a while. Nothing I say on this forum will matter in the long run. I mostly did this for myself.

I thank you for your detailed response, though, despite my disagreements.

Captcha: Im only human.

...You watching me, Captcha?
 

Something Amyss

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The prequels were terrible. That's not the fans' fault.

Besides, they made a bajillion dollars, so what difference does it make?
 

BloatedGuppy

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ShogunGino said:
I appreciate it.
Well this was a more civil response than I was expecting given that I dressed you down pretty hard. Kudos for being a good sport.

ShogunGino said:
I did, in fact, use to think like this, but over time, my tolerance for it dropped lower and lower. And yes, I do know that "rape" has more than one meaning, but I'm fairly certain that people who claim "raped my childhood" don't rely on the other meanings.
I guess the problem is that rape has a very specific definition (plunder, despoilation, violation) that makes the usage of it here 100% appropriate, linguistically, so it becomes a question of how sensitive you are to usage of the word "rape". I'm not unsympathetic to your complaint, but I have a hard time accusing people of gross immaturity when they are using the word correctly.

ShogunGino said:
It's a nasty paradox that if you criticize fan movement, its based on your own fan movement, and it makes you look hypocritical. I see the hypocrisy, but I don't see many ways around it.
Not necessarily. You can tell fans, for instance, that they are being hyperbolic twits if they get too carried away. I don't like to go down that road because I think people have the freedom to love what they love as much as they want to love it, but it makes it pretty hard to have a measured discussion about anything when folks are perpetually flying off the handle about the tiniest thing because they think hugely outsized outrage is funny or cathartic.

ShogunGino said:
Hayden hasn't been teased out of film, he still acts. The same cannot be said for Jake. That's why I didn't bring it up.
Show business is a nasty business. If you're going to spend your life in the public eye, you need to grow a thick skin. Ask the Biebers of the world about teasing. That said, I think directing ANY anger towards ANY actors for poor performances in a Lucas film is a misdirection of blame. Lucas couldn't direct the ocean to act wet.

ShogunGino said:
Do understand, I am aware of Star Wars' place in cinema history, but just because it was a trailblazer doesn't mean that should defend it against future criticism.
I can't remember who said it, but certain films and institutions become "critic proof", insomuch as you can critique them all you want but no one is going to care. The original Star Wars trilogy falls firmly into that camp, at this point, it's written into the culture. I'm not saying you shouldn't or you can't criticize them, I'm just saying it's a futile exercise.

ShogunGino said:
Honestly, I can't really say I "like" the prequels...
Thank god.

They're really terrible, you know. I've been a film buff for years. I don't hate them because they "ruined Star Wars". I hate them because they're dreadful films. And they're so mechanical and soulless I can't even appreciate them as camp.
 

Madman123456

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The Prequel Movies where rather shitty. So where the older ones to be honest but i did like the Special effects. They took a back seat to the non-story and never before have i seen special effects that where used as a tool in such a way. The effects where a tool to tell the story, not something the Story would be developed around to show off more special effects. Well, at least the effects looked that way; they where nice, but not overly flashy and in that, they looked more real then almost anything before.

The Movies had excellent sound design, nice sets and good props.

The Prequel Movies should contain a little Citizen Kane story about Anakin Skywalker becoming corrupted, but instead, the Prequels tell a sad story about Lucas fighting the System and then becoming the System. From idealistic Filmmaker to a greedy Studioboss surrounded by Yesmen and firing everyone who has an Oppinion differing from his own.
 

Vivi22

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You know what? If people, myself included, hating the prequels and wishing Lucas would leave the series the hell alone lead directly to this whole thing, then I think all I can say to those people responsible is well done and keep it up. Disney's been doing pretty good things lately. We'll see where this goes, but it can't get worse.
 

Mathak

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Despite all our differences, I think we can all rest secure in the knowledge that no matter who possesses the Star Wars franchise, no matter what they do with it, there will never, ever, be anything quite so terrible as the Star Wars Holiday Special. Ever.
 

George Brundage

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I was 15 years old when Star Wars came out. Not 'Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope', just Star Wars. Surprising virtually everyone, it became a smash hit and cultural icon.

Since then it's been bled to death. Bad games. Bad MMOs. Bad prequals. Bad books. Chintzy merchandising.


None of that takes away from the 'oh, wow' I had as a nerdy, sci-fi teenager. In fact, I still own the original trilogy on VHS. But the franchise itself has been abused to the point that it's a joke due to Lucas' inept handling of the franchise.


But now, like the re-titled Star Wars, I have a 'New Hope.' A hope that we can get away from the second-rate Lucas crap and into something well done that gives this cultural land-mark the respect it deserves instead of the BS that Lucas has dropped on it...
 

Savryc

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I also blame the fans. For everything. The takeover, George's chubby bearded face, Half Life 3 not being here and world hunger. It's all their fault, for reasons!
 

ShogunGino

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BloatedGuppy said:
I can't remember who said it, but certain films and institutions become "critic proof", insomuch as you can critique them all you want but no one is going to care. The original Star Wars trilogy falls firmly into that camp, at this point, it's written into the culture. I'm not saying you shouldn't or you can't criticize them, I'm just saying it's a futile exercise.

ShogunGino said:
Honestly, I can't really say I "like" the prequels...
Thank god.

They're really terrible, you know. I've been a film buff for years. I don't hate them because they "ruined Star Wars". I hate them because they're dreadful films. And they're so mechanical and soulless I can't even appreciate them as camp.
Again, I thank you for showing a degree of civility. I like to think I'm a reasonable, understandable guy when I want to be, even if people disagree with me.

I really hate the idea of "critic-proof" movies. Yes, I know that any opinion I may have today that could criticize them would be years too late and not matter at all, but I still don't think movies like that should be barred from retrospective critiques if they deserve it. Ex. I could go on about how Doctor Zhivago is about an unsympathetic adulterer in a story that doesn't fit his character, but I know it won't amount to anything.

Also, perhaps I should make myself a bit more clear, while I can't say I "like" the prequels, I do enjoy aspects of them. I still think the set design, music, and action scene set-pieces are highly entertaining. Duels of the Fates from 1 is my favorite Star Wars soundtrack. I just don't like the acting, the uninteresting political subtext, and frequent mishandling of character development. I would compare the prequels to a lot of cult-favorite 80's action movies, but I know how badly people would react if I did.

But all the things I do like in the prequels are all the same things I like in the originals. The music, set design, and action scenes (except Hoth. I never liked Hoth). I mean, there are plenty of other movies that I prefer the prequels over. I like the prequels better than Tim Burton's Batman films(I really, really can't stand those), and other touted classics like The Graduate and Somewhere in Time.(unfunny, unsubtle satire for the former and immature love-storytelling for the latter)

But again, we will have to agree to disagree.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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ShogunGino said:
I would compare the prequels to a lot of cult-favorite 80's action movies, but I know how badly people would react if I did.
For me, they feel like a lot of classic 90's sci-fi movies, especially The Fifth Element and Stargate. I honestly believe if they had been called anything but Star Wars, they would have wound up right next to those two on the list of classic sci-fi movies. Unfortunately, they were called Star Wars, and they just didn't stack up to the original trilogy. Very little could, especially after the 20+ years of hype that had built up.