I despise the very concept of superheroes

[Tono Makt]

Since when did wish fulfilment fantasies become nazi propaganda for subjugating the common man?

Superman is cool, cuz he can fly and lift cars. We can't.
Spider-Man is cool, cuz he can swing around the city and climb any surface. We can't.
Batman is cool, cuz he's got a shitload of awesome crime fighting gadgets and a badass car. We don't.
Wolverine is cool, cuz he's got metal claws and is practically indestructable. We're not.
Cyclops is cool, cuz... Uhm... We'll skip that one.

That's as far as superhero worship goes, my friend.

Pretty much this.

We are that random dude who got his car flipped over by Dr. Doom. We aren't Reed Richards or Johnny Storm. We might think we're more like Ben Grimm, but without the nigh-invulnerability and super strength. (ie: we're ugly, misshapen, huge and awkward, and not really all that smart) We are that random woman huddling in the corner and protecting her child from the vicious thug that is walking down the alleyway at us. We aren't the Punisher, with an assault rifle in one hand and an SMG in the other, perfectly willing to put a hundred bullets in the body of that thug.

We WANT to be one of the members of the Fantastic Four. We WANT to be the Punisher. We WANT to be Green Lantern, or Hawkgirl, or Hellboy. It's not about how only these superiour beings are the only beings who can save us, it's that we want to be that being. We want to be the one everyone looks up to, the one in charge, the one who can solve all of their own problems. We don't want to be what we are - normal people with normal problems, many of which we can't even deal with on our own.

This isn't a new thing; we've wanted to be Achilles, to be Hector, to be Gilgamesh. We've wanted to be the hero's from old, and I might even go so far as to say we've wanted to be the Gods from old too - to be Aphrodite and Athena, to be Coyote and Wotan, to be Amatarasu and the Divine Councillor. We have wanted to be something more than we are since we first discovered that we are limited beings and there is more out there than we currently have.

Superhero's are just a modern version of it.

 

[IrenIvy]

I actually didn't like 'Harry Potter' and didn't read it past 3th book because I looked at their world from POV of a regular human with no superpowers whatsoever (I found it is to be the best way to see how the world in fantasy books holds up); if in the real world I'd be called 'Muggle' with the same implications this word had in books, I won't think kindly of this person.

 

[briankoontz]

Superheroes were created when humans stopped believing in themselves. Same with robots. The idea is that humans can no longer engage in positive projects, they can only cling to basic life, and anything more than that must be done by superheroes, robots, and rich and powerful people.

Humans are believed to be drowning in despair, decimated and useless - thus the need for a non-human savior. Any attempt by pathetic corrupt humans to do good in the world will end in failure.

Thus superheroes as powerful - "I used to be just a pathetic human but now I shoot laser beams from my eyes! Yippee it's time to go to town!" Examine the transformation in Peter Parker in Hollywood's Spiderman movie, for example.

The superhero mythos paints humans as sad creatures counting down the days to death while superheroes because they are powerful are truly alive. This is why superheroes always have ridiculous physiques (except when that's too inconvenient for an actor to accomplish) even when that makes no sense with respect to their powers.

It's fascist ideology, which is why humans are inherently offended by it. Hitler believed the German populace to be effectively dead but through world domination and utter power they would be brought to life. Hitler viewed himself as a superhero, a kind of national doctor healing the populace.

So now we have not only vigilantes like George Zimmerman roaming the streets but "superheroes" like the Rain City Superhero Movement transcending their pathetic human selves into an enlightened powerful form.

Anyone familiar with the rise of the fascist right in Europe RIGHT NOW, I'm not taking about the 1930s, understands the dangers of right-wing chauvinist fascism, and if you don't believe that can happen in the United States I can only hope that you don't experience a very rude awakening in the next few years. Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I think you missed the point of superheroes there... Superheroes are about wish fulfilment and trying to look for the best in ourselves and all that niceness. Superman is about sticking to your morals and being a good guy, doing the best you can with the skills you have. The superpowers are there because superpowers are fucking fun, we all wish we had some. Spider-Man is about the same sort of thing but throw in "outcast sees the good in fellow man, tries to stick to his responsibilities." Superheroes aren't about the superpowers, not really. They make for great stories, sur, but it's all about what they do with them. And I don't think I even need to explain X-Men to you. I haven't gone through the posts here, yet but somebody must have explained that already. Right?

But I do see your point, at times superheroes seem like dicks. Incredibles made me feel the exact same way.

EDIT: I used to hate Superman, until I read Birthright; sometimes it's the writer that doesn't know how to handle the character, same with any genre or medium. Birthright was fucking perfect, though.

 

[Chimichanga]

And what's more, human attempts to level the playing field with technology are generally rendered ineffective because most superheroes and supervillains are conveniently immune to human weapons.

You should read "The Boys". Seriously.

READ. THE BOYS.

Seriously, it is straight up your alley on superhero deconstruction.

 

[Zen Bard]

Well, if you think about it, the concept of Superheroes has been around since man first started telling stories.

One could argue that the first superheroes were Hercules, Achilles, Gilgamesh or Ashoka.

There have ALWAYS been myths about superpowered beings, half god or half demon, living among us that either help or hinder us.

Superheroes are just that: modern myths.

A bigger question is "Why DOES humanity constantly feel the need to believe in something greater than themselves?"

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Y'know, its ok to dislike things. Everyone has their own opinion. I tend to wonder why one would expend the effort to hate or despise something though. It seems to me that disliking something should be enough and takes little effort, also doesn't consume time better spent on constructive things.
That being said, Superheroes are a way for powerless folk to live vicariously, to take heart in something that they couldn't do themselves, escape into the character for a few moments and maybe right some wrongs they have experienced. Nothing wrong with that.
And if we're really evolving, eventually something new will happen in humanity, maybe not as fantastic as X-Men powers, but something that elevates a small amount of the population above the other.
I think the OP misses the other side of stories like the X-Men. Its about civil rights, oppression and fear of the unknown, the different, the "freak". they may have all these awesome powers, but they're hated and reviled by a lot of the population simply because they have something others don't.
Superheroes aren't all wine and roses... Most of them have huge flaws, or ordeals that follow them in life.
I enjoy their stories because it shows that even with great power, superheroes still deal with isolation, being outcast and hated for existing. That tethers them to the human condition.
Except Superman. Fucking boyscout alien telling me how I should act when his own people destroyed their own planet with their hubris.

 

[EternallyBored]

Snip

Wow that's a little hyperbolic, also extremely factually suspect, with the way most superhero comics are. I'm honestly not sure if you even read comics or know what Fascism actually is since what you described has very little to do with it. Facism is the glorification of the state, I.E. the government, and national or cultural identity above the self; it is about looking to a strong central authority figure, and relying on nationalism and military conquest to obtain autarky, economic self-sufficiency and independence. Hitler's ideas on genetics and racial superiority, are not a necessary part of Fascism, and even then much of German propaganda was about celebrating the common (non-Jewish, non-gay, or pretty much any race other than white) German man as superior to the rest of the world, I don't know where you got this idea that he thought the German people were dead, when he spent so much time telling them how much better they were than everyone else.

Now here's where I question if you even read comic books, because any time normal citizens get off their ass and does something, they basically either end up kicking the superheroes in their ass, or the superheroes fall on their knees in praise of the "awe-inspiring" efforts of the normal citizens. Although we could just use the whole superheroes as mythical figures thing, since we have had superheroes doing their thing thousands of years before Fascism was even an organized political concept, but that sinks your entire argument before we even get into modern comics.

So, in Marvel who runs the Avengers? it's S.H.I.E.L.D, which used to be a primarily U.S. organization, but later became a more world-wide anti-crime organization. And this super -organization that controls a good chunk of superheroes in the world is run almost entirely by normal people. Of course this is before we get into the fact that the major superheroes will immediately start talking about how awesome they think normal people are the second they get the chance. Superman will talk random people out of committing suicide by telling them how awesome they are, and anytime a public servant is brought up (policeman, doctor, firefighter) most superheroes will immediately start talking about how they (the public servants) are the real heroes, and how they couldn't do what they do without them. This is because a lot of comic books are still set in the "modern real-world" just with superheroes, so they act as morality lessons to their younger readers. So many superheroes also preach about multiculturalism and how all the countries need to get along to stop wars and international problems, which is pretty much the polar opposite of Fascism. Very few superheroes are also pro-government, with many of them being outright considered criminals by the governments of their respective settings, another facet that is pretty much the opposite of Fascism.

With a lot of modern superheroes getting their start fighting Nazis in WWII, a lot of influence on the comics industry is downright anti-Fascist, so I'm really confused on where you got your impressions from.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Err maybe it's because some of us do fantasize/ dream of having above human capability like being lifting boulder with ease. Is is hard to believe that someone with power would use if for good? You do know there are good people in real life, it's just that apply to a superhero level but that doesn't mean that person will be noble (that person could be saving others and doing good for fame or glory).

Beside why get so work up with frictional character/ concept? You're just steaming toward nothing.

Also the concept of superhero well a person with great feat isn't exactly new that superhero had invented, ever heard of Hercules or any of those mythological characters?


Lastly what about that superhero Kick Ass? Where does he fit in your grudge with frictional supercharacters?

 

[NeutralGray]

I'm sorry but it really seems like your just reading way too far into what superheroes and escapist power fantasy is supposed to be. Like Tippy above me said, nobody is reading superhero comics or Harry Potter and putting themselves in the place of random civilian #55, they are imagining being able to have superpowers themselves and going to Hogwarts to learn magic. Frankly that is the way it should be, nobody wants to read about the life of Joe Schmoe, faceless bureaucrat with the unenviable job of enforcing state child care laws and removing crying children and babies from their families, returning home every night to play video games and hang out with his friends; who then spends the occasional weekend biking in the mountains. I just described my own life, and I may be mostly satisfied with it, but I sure as hell don't want to read about it.

I want to read about people and places greater than myself, who do the things I can't or won't do. I want to travel to fantasy lands and extraordinary planets that no normal human could ever visit. That is what a good fantasy or superhero story does, it allows us an escape into things that can never be in reality. Yes, this sometimes means that there are unfortunate implications, but a good story will make them unimportant to the plot and keep our suspension of disbelief in tact. If you overthink the wizarding world in the Harry Potter books, then yeah the muggles get treated like crap and I will honestly agree that the muggle side of the story really gets no payoff by the end of the 7th book, but that's not really the point. We don't read Harry Potter to experience a moralizing tale about the Ubermensch, it's a somewhat simplistic fantasy story about good wizards fighting bad wizards, and a child growing up in that fantastic story. The average reader isn't thinking or identifying with the muggles in the story, he/she is imagining moving paintings, owls that deliver mail, magic duels at night, enchanted mirrors, and creatures right out of fantasy existing in the modern day, all set amongst an idyllic Scottish countryside. While the societal, cultural, and psychological effects of living in a society with a clearly superior class of people is an interesting setting for stories, that should hardly be the only focus in any story featuring super powers or magic.

As a final point, you may not like it, but it is something that I have experienced as true many times in my life, and that is that we are not all created equal in ability. To a child born with severe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, a normal healthy person might as well be Superman to that child, because as much as they may try, they can never equal that average, physically or mentally. If I drop everything in my life right this second and spend every waking moment training for the Tour de France, I will never be able to win, simply because I am a severe asthmatic. Those people will always be faster, in a way they are the Flash to my normal human abilities. There is always someone faster, smarter, stronger, better looking, or more experienced than you, that is a fact of life; that does not mean that the best of the best should be able to discriminate or abuse those weaker, slower, or sicker than them, we must strive to create a society where even the weakest are at least given the chance to succeed and excel. Which is exactly what many superhero and fantasy stories do, superman does not lord his strength as the Ubermensch over the normal people, he is portrayed as all too human in his emotions, and feelings, he is shown with personal flaws and struggling to uphold noble ideals, and even sometimes failing. This is why DC and Marvel seem to have their setting stuck in a perpetual time freeze, with all the iconic heroes never aging but always being in the present day, so that they can focus on character and setting rather than trying to extrapolate out what the actual existence of superheroes would really do to society, I will give you that it's cliche and really kind of played out by this point, but taking the other road requires them to invent a very different earth that would bear almost no resemblance to where we live today.

To wrap this whole probably pedantic diatribe of mine up, feel free to hate on superheroes all you want, god knows there's plenty of bad stories and legitimate criticisms to lay against the tired old genre. Hell, I mentioned Superman but stuff like the end of the recent Man of Steel movie, that make you stop and say, "wait how many people probably died when that building collapsed?" are good points and when suspension of disbelief is broken we often start questioning everything else in the story as well.

But don't for a second sit there and try to extrapolate people enjoying the genre out into some commentary about how they are similar to supporting the silliness that is Social Darwinism, or the evil that is enforced eugenics. That goes past reading too far into something and right into the kinds of leaps of logic that started the theory of Social Darwinism to begin with.

You have worded this perfectly. The topic pretty much should have ended with this.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I kind of agree with you, but that's probably because I'm more of a fan of how japan does things. Super Hero Worship makes me feel ill. I'd rather get real fantasy works than stupid superhero movies. Nobody really cares about real sci- fi and fantasy. Makes me glad I read books.

There is the Game of Thrones and The Lord of the Rings. They are exceptions and not average. Hell there was steven speilber's A.I. which was fantastic, but nobody cared.

Define "real Sci-Fi and fantasy". Because I have no idea what you mean.

OT:
I've never really been too keen on the whole superhero thing, some I like, some I don't, most I haven't heard of or just don't have any real interest in. I quite like Thor, but that's probably more to do with my interest in Norse mythology than anything else.

 

[cikame]

So if you had the power to be an untouchable badass you'd just... watch tv?
You'd probably find me punishing some evil doers at some point or another, not necessarily for the benefit of the human race, just because i could.

I enjoy a overpowered hero for the same reasons i watch Jackie Chan films, he's the most agile and dangerous person in most of his films and it's fun to watch the good guy take on the bad guys... it's not as spectacular in real life.

 

[Frontastic]

I understand this point of view but don't agree with it. I don't view humans as a good thing or the apex of their own evolution. I think we can be more and, whether by natural evolution or scientific advancement, we will be more (seriously if were we at Deus Ex level tech, I would sign up tomorrow. Hell I'd willingly volunteer for the Cybermen upgrade).

I don't enjoy them for wish fulfillment, I just enjoy them because reality can be a bit meh. And also tend to side more with the villains than heroes. On a purely philosophical level I'm in near total agreement with Joker, Ra's al Ghul and (minus his own arrogance) the version of Loki from Avengers.

There's enough fiction celebrating humans and putting them on a pedestal. I enjoy seeing them realise how small and pointless they are on a universal scale and if that manifests as magic men in tights, I'm ok with that.

 

[James Crook]

The only superheroes I can abide are those who gain their powers through technology, such as Batman and Ironman. Screw Superman.

Sorry to break this to you, but time and time again it's been said that Batman's combat abilities are greatly helped by the Wayne family's lineage and genetics. Hugo Strange, for example, received extensive martial arts training, and has a compulsive obsession with Batman and a strong desire to be Batman out of jealousy for his innate physical abilities and willpower.

 

[VodkaKnight]

I've never been that attracted to Superheroes. I mean, I can see the appeal, but I just find it difficult to take the concept seriously.

 

[Queen Michael]

But stuff like the Avengers and the DC superheroes... yeah, they're idiots who can fart explosions. Booooooo-riiiing.

That's Wario, actually. Easy mistake to make.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Superheroes were created when humans stopped believing in themselves. Same with robots. The idea is that humans can no longer engage in positive projects, they can only cling to basic life, and anything more than that must be done by superheroes, robots, and rich and powerful people.

Humans are believed to be drowning in despair, decimated and useless - thus the need for a non-human savior. Any attempt by pathetic corrupt humans to do good in the world will end in failure.

Thus superheroes as powerful - "I used to be just a pathetic human but now I shoot laser beams from my eyes! Yippee it's time to go to town!" Examine the transformation in Peter Parker in Hollywood's Spiderman movie, for example.

The superhero mythos paints humans as sad creatures counting down the days to death while superheroes because they are powerful are truly alive. This is why superheroes always have ridiculous physiques (except when that's too inconvenient for an actor to accomplish) even when that makes no sense with respect to their powers.

It's fascist ideology, which is why humans are inherently offended by it. Hitler believed the German populace to be effectively dead but through world domination and utter power they would be brought to life. Hitler viewed himself as a superhero, a kind of national doctor healing the populace.

So now we have not only vigilantes like George Zimmerman roaming the streets but "superheroes" like the Rain City Superhero Movement transcending their pathetic human selves into an enlightened powerful form.

Anyone familiar with the rise of the fascist right in Europe RIGHT NOW, I'm not taking about the 1930s, understands the dangers of right-wing chauvinist fascism, and if you don't believe that can happen in the United States I can only hope that you don't experience a very rude awakening in the next few years. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Don't worry, if this ever happens, the first thing I'll do is PM you and say, "You warned me. I should have listened." Assuming there's still internet, and I'm not in a death camp or reeducation complex.