I don't 'get' Racism...

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k-ossuburb

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Everyone is racist, yes OP, even you. You may not realize it, but you are and there's not really a lot you can do about it other than try to ignore it. We're a social species and as a social species we have a tribal mentality that is hardwired into our brains from 3MA of evolution.

Humans are social organism. That means we live in societies and interact with other organisms of the same species. ALL social organisms have in-groups and out-groups. Taking an ant as example, its in-group would be all the other ants that live in the same ant mound. Its out-group would be all the other ants in adjacent ant mounds.

In modern evolutionary theory there is a closely related concept called the GREEN BEARD EFFECT [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green-beard_effect]. The idea is that suppose you possessed an unusual characteristic (a green beard). If you happen to cross paths with another person possessing the same unusual characteristic, then recognizing that you share at least that trait in common you may be inclined to act more favorably toward that person. Doing so would improve your reproductive fitness with respect to that trait even if the person is not closely related to you genetically.

When it comes to survival, humans as an omnivorous species will require a territory, similar to wolves today. This territory will need to be fairly large, often much larger than required to ensure a steady supply of prey and edible vegetation. Other predators would've been hunted the same as herbivores that we hunted so the most obvious threat would be that of another tribe trying to take over our territory or attempt to take resources from it. This is something that warrants aggression.

Racism is, unfortunately, just part of who we are. It's genetic and, therefore, cannot be altered. You cannot change who you trust any more than what smells you like. Today it takes on a far more complex form and can often be very subtle in how it displays itself. For instance, you may be more favorable to someone of the same fashion group as you (Green Beard Effect) or you may act slightly less favorably to someone who triggers something in you that you have learned to distrust over time (for example, I don't like people who wear suits to work), this is basic conditioning which goes into a much deeper reasoning for why racism persists today.

Racism now is less about survival and more about various psychological triggers from conditioning throughout our lives. Various authoritarian figures in our lives, like our parents or other adult family members during our childhood all the way up to the various people we interact with throughout our lives have conditioned us (whether intentionally or not) to think a certain way about a group of people. This is far easier for a child as making these judgments are more about gut instinct than any association with experience, but those early signs of bigotry can be very pervasive and may continue for some time, especially when they are ritualized.

Basically, as far as I can make out, racism is pretty much the same as any other distrust of a social group. It's a snap judgment based on various factors and doesn't simply refer to ones dislike of someone's skin colour but also their culture and their language for whatever reason.

Racism seems (in my opinion) to be no different than disliking people who listen to Justin Bieber, or all the Windows users disliking Mac users (and vice versa). It's not something we can control, really, some people just rub you the wrong way even though the only reason you dislike them is because they're associated with a group that you don't have much fondness for, for whatever reason.

Also, I should point out that even though racism does have an evolutionary origin it doesn't make it right. Thanks. I hope I made some kind of sense here.
 

Liviola

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Danny Roberts said:
My two cents:

Racism is an evolutionary instinct that was essential to our survival. The concept of distrust of people outside your personal niche was perfectly reasonable back in the time when the next tribe over what just as likely to kill your children and enslave your women as they were to say hello. Infanticide and full on genocide was common place in the ancient world and people had to be racist to survive.

Tribes became nations, skirmishes over cattle became wars but the concept remained the same. If you as a people wanted to survive and thrive a general distrust and dislike of those different from you, and an ability to channel that feeling into the ability to fight or enslave people, was essential to a nation or people growth. Remember: Rome was a fascist state.

Racism is also a useful political tool. Various governments wishing to control or distract a population would target the outsider and this usually resulted in another race. Another race outside of the country was ok but one inside the country is even more useful when your economy is failing, your trying to clamp down on civil liberties or you're trying to unite the unwashed masses (Nazi Germany, Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Jewish Pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition, the crusades).

I kinda feel anyone who doesn't understand why people are racist probably hasn't looked at it very hard because historically, culturally and politically it pretty easy to "get".
Hmm! That's a really insightful summary.

It's unfortunate that adaptively favourable traits include outright asshole-ish behaviour.

I've experienced racial discrimination before, and it really sucks to be a victim of such a stupid thing. I'm friendly, educated, hard-working, polite, benevolent in every way, and yet nothing but the colour of my skin matters to racists and it deems me worthy of random abuse on the street.

Even though I live in a country where racism is publically frowned upon, there is still a population of "closet" racists who have feelings of contempt and dislike towards racial groups. It is up to the individual's personality how overtly/agressively they express racist attitudes, but there is very subtle racist behaviour everywhere you look (politics, workplaces, etc.).

I don't think mankind will ever be rid of it.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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Caliostro said:
Sizzle Montyjing said:
Patrick Hayes said:
I'm not racist and i have no idea where you got that impression from.
And how did you TRIPLE POST!?
and i'm pretty sure specieism is that of different species, you do know that white people and black people are still human, right?
Are you a quarian sympathizer, you piece of fishdog shit?
Sorry, but what's a quarian?
I sort of ignored that bit and why the fuck are you being so aggresive!?
Chill out.
Hint Quarian [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Quarian].

He's trying to be funny. Not very successfully, but still...
Oh, i've never played mass effect.
So... that works out.
I thought he was one of those weird people who gives names to people who eat ham and bitches about them, claiming ham suppresses are hidden powers...
...
well that was weird.
 

Liviola

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k-ossuburb said:
Ooh, also very insightful. I wish there was a "like" button on forums so I can silently show appreciation without having to make a whole post :p
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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k-ossuburb said:
You did make sense good sir!
And for that wonderful (albeit lengthy, but you can'r really skip the details) post!
+10 internets to you!
Does homophobia work in the same way?
Or is there something different to that...
 
Apr 24, 2009
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Racism is a bit of a strange subject for me.

The area where I grew up screams that I should be racist (I grew up in an all white town, went to an all white primary and secondary school). The first time I saw a black person was on television, the first time I saw a black child was Africans on the news, and the same goes for every race apart from white people. I never saw any other type of race close up until I was about 11 years old.

Admittedly, this sort of childhood, did put in my head that black people weren't to be trusted (One look at the newspaper of murderers, robbings, gang violence, etc, gives you a crisp idea of why). While white people and other races were in the news too about this, the fact I grew up around whites that I could trust made it seem the minority were as such bad, while the only black people I knew about were in the news for murder or robbing until I finally talked to one properly and made friends with one (Aged 19 years old). This also a main reason why I do not find any other race apart from white attractive at all.

My job as well brings this idea as well. The main race of people we throw out/ban from the store/ arrest, are black and this is usually for theft. White people mainly just argue about something, and other races just seem to get on with it and deal.

After moving to the city, I was never afraid of anybody there (Still not), but since coming here, the only people to have attempted to rob me, rob me, and commit violence towards me have been black.

This may be a case of a few rotten apples in the barrel, but you can at least understand why, while not outwardly, aggressively, extremist racist running around fire bombing black households and shooting at people, I hold a small amount of, you could almost say dislike, for them.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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cozitmatchesyoureyes said:
Racism is a bit of a strange subject for me.

The area where I grew up screams that I should be racist (I grew up in an all white town, went to an all white primary and secondary school). The first time I saw a black person was on television, the first time I saw a black child was Africans on the news, and the same goes for every race apart from white people. I never saw any other type of race close up until I was about 11 years old.

Admittedly, this sort of childhood, did put in my head that black people weren't to be trusted (One look at the newspaper of murderers, robbings, gang violence, etc, gives you a crisp idea of why). While white people and other races were in the news too about this, the fact I grew up around whites that I could trust made it seem the minority were as such bad, while the only black people I knew about were in the news for murder or robbing until I finally talked to one properly and made friends with one (Aged 19 years old). This also a main reason why I do not find any other race apart from white attractive at all.

My job as well brings this idea as well. The main race of people we throw out/ban from the store/ arrest, are black and this is usually for theft. White people mainly just argue about something, and other races just seem to get on with it and deal.

After moving to the city, I was never afraid of anybody there (Still not), but since coming here, the only people to have attempted to rob me, rob me, and commit violence towards me have been black.

This may be a case of a few rotten apples in the barrel, but you can at least understand why, while not outwardly, aggressively, extremist racist running around fire bombing black households and shooting at people, I hold a small amount of, you could almost say dislike, for them.
Hell, i feel like moaning at you for being Racist, but i can see your point.
You grew up around people like that, and besides, who's to blame these black people for behaving like that if their expected to behave like that.

And i don't really know much, i live in the south of england, not many black people there.
Although a chinese kid put some arsehole i knew back into his place.

Arsehole: Oh hello little kid, ching chong chinaman!
Kid: Hello fatboy!

(arsehole was fat btw)
 

k-ossuburb

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Sizzle Montyjing said:
k-ossuburb said:
You did make sense good sir!
And for that wonderful (albeit lengthy, but you can'r really skip the details) post!
+10 internets to you!
Does homophobia work in the same way?
Or is there something different to that...
Homophobia is pretty much the same at the most basic, primitive levels "they're different from me so I don't like them" is something that pretty much relates to that tribal mentality we still have, however homophobia is far more complex a subject as it enters into a whole boat lead of philosophical, moral and scientific realms that I couldn't cover here even if I wanted to. Various factors would effect how someone views homosexuality as it might have something to do with social pressures from their kin (family, friends, colleagues anyone else that someone associates on a day-to-day basis) and the reasons for the social pressures might be fear out of ignorance (or simply refusing to try to understand the concept of homosexuality), it may be religious or it may be simply because someone had a bad experience with one homosexual in the past and now distrusts all homosexuals because if this.

There are far more reasons in the spectrum but they are so nuanced that it's impossible to cover them all. It's probably safer to say that if someone dislikes something then they have a reason for it. You might not agree with that reason or find it pathetic but they have a reason and they believe it enough to attach a negative emotion to it. The best you can do is hope to educate them or try to change their minds, but that's difficult since you're pretty much going up against years of conditioning unless you're lucky enough to catch it before it has the chance to cement itself in their psyche.
 
Apr 24, 2009
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Sizzle Montyjing said:
cozitmatchesyoureyes said:
Racism is a bit of a strange subject for me.

The area where I grew up screams that I should be racist (I grew up in an all white town, went to an all white primary and secondary school). The first time I saw a black person was on television, the first time I saw a black child was Africans on the news, and the same goes for every race apart from white people. I never saw any other type of race close up until I was about 11 years old.

Admittedly, this sort of childhood, did put in my head that black people weren't to be trusted (One look at the newspaper of murderers, robbings, gang violence, etc, gives you a crisp idea of why). While white people and other races were in the news too about this, the fact I grew up around whites that I could trust made it seem the minority were as such bad, while the only black people I knew about were in the news for murder or robbing until I finally talked to one properly and made friends with one (Aged 19 years old). This also a main reason why I do not find any other race apart from white attractive at all.

My job as well brings this idea as well. The main race of people we throw out/ban from the store/ arrest, are black and this is usually for theft. White people mainly just argue about something, and other races just seem to get on with it and deal.

After moving to the city, I was never afraid of anybody there (Still not), but since coming here, the only people to have attempted to rob me, rob me, and commit violence towards me have been black.

This may be a case of a few rotten apples in the barrel, but you can at least understand why, while not outwardly, aggressively, extremist racist running around fire bombing black households and shooting at people, I hold a small amount of, you could almost say dislike, for them.
Hell, i feel like moaning at you for being Racist, but i can see your point.
You grew up around people like that, and besides, who's to blame these black people for behaving like that if their expected to behave like that.
And i don't really know much, i live in the south of england, not many black people there.
Although a chinese kid put some arsehole i knew back into his place.
Arsehole: Oh hello little kid, ching chong chinaman!
Kid: Hello fatboy!
(arsehole was fat btw)
I lived in a town 30 miles away from my closest city in Scotland before moving to London when I was 19. I've never seen a point to random racism, but at least someone can see what has pretty much been put in my head for about twenty years!
 

Alon Shechter

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Because it's easy on our minds, if X is bad then all X's out there must also be bad.
It's simple, thinking this way, while being a peace-loving friendly person that loves everyone regardless of race, religion or sex is harder.
If a black guy stole your wallet, won't you be a little more cautious around black people?
And don't say no, you're programmed to think that way.
 

TheAmokz

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Sizzle Montyjing said:
Pretty straight-foward, i just don't understand racism.
Why are people Racist?
What is it about the colour of you're skin that makes you 'better' than others?
I just can't put my finger on it, why is there racism in the world?
To me it doesn't make any logical sense.
So, what are your thoughts on this?
Racism is a belief that your race has superior attributes (like intelligence) than certain other race, and you use that to justify their unfair treatment. Its not about skin color. You could say that its more radical version of racialism.

Note that racism is not same thing as racialism.
I think i have lost count on how many times i have been called a racist for believing that there are different human races, and some have higher average IQ than others.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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cozitmatchesyoureyes said:
I lived in a town 30 miles away from my closest city in Scotland before moving to London when I was 19. I've never seen a point to random racism, but at least someone can see what has pretty much been put in my head for about twenty years!
I always try to be understanding, no matter what (with some exceptions)

I was no different, i got a lot of racist thoughts of a plumber once (those thoughts are gone now, when i was around 13 i was changing everyday),
like wise i got the notion that all people who drive 4x4's to be pricks off of my mum.

Although i still haven't found any evidence to support that 4x4 drivers are not pricks.
:p
 

HandfulofWolf

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Jan 27, 2010
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Mostly it's in the way they were brought up. But other times it's simply that they enjoy being able to hate something. Being able to put someone down for something that they had nothing to do with, this is especially true if there's a group of them. Much in the way everyone gets bullied for anything else.
 

Zeema

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Jun 29, 2010
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i don't understand it at all as Trezu says 'Humans hate things just because there different'

Personality is all that matters and

i HATE IT when someone goes 'Im not racist i have a Black Friend'
 

Kalamona

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Jan 3, 2011
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Ah, it is time to say something.

I don't know about other countries, I speak about my country.

In my country the gypsies are like the 5% of the population, but prison population is like 50% (80% in youth prisons), based on documentary movies about hungarian prisons.

I've been a victim of robbing/stealing/cheating a few times, and was provoked on the streets, and about 50% the time the offenders were gypsies. This is similar to the experience of my friends.

That means the average gipsy crime rate is much higher than the average non-gipsy crime rate.

That means if a gypsy asks for change, asks for a cigarette, asks what the time is, I behave much more cautiously as opposed to a white, asian, or black (black people mostly come to my country to learn). That also means that i avoid gypsies whenever possible.

I do not do this because i feel superior, i do this to reduce the possibility to get a negative experience. If i can reduce the possibility of getting a negative experience by 50% just by excluding 5% of the people from my life, this seems like a great tradeoff to me.

I do not care whether this is racist or not, just or not. It is logical. Maybe it is morally not acceptable to some. But morals change every century or so, while logic is eternal.
 

darthzew

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People don't naturally like things that are different. It's literally part of a defense mechanism. It's natural psychology to be wary of that which is different. We've seen it time and time again in history and not just with race. Racism is a terrible, terrible thing, but sadly it's also natural.
 

Danny Roberts

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Moeez said:
Migration, interracial relationships, and multiculturalism over hundreds of years have made this a moot point.
excuse me? this wasn't said to make a point or propagate an opinion. These are the historical and cultural reasons for racism. There's nothing to moot and no point to be made it's just fact.
 

Danny Roberts

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Liviola said:
Hmm! That's a really insightful summary.

It's unfortunate that adaptively favourable traits include outright asshole-ish behaviour.

I've experienced racial discrimination before, and it really sucks to be a victim of such a stupid thing. I'm friendly, educated, hard-working, polite, benevolent in every way, and yet nothing but the colour of my skin matters to racists and it deems me worthy of random abuse on the street.

Even though I live in a country where racism is publically frowned upon, there is still a population of "closet" racists who have feelings of contempt and dislike towards racial groups. It is up to the individual's personality how overtly/agressively they express racist attitudes, but there is very subtle racist behaviour everywhere you look (politics, workplaces, etc.).

I don't think mankind will ever be rid of it.
Oh we will in time. With each generation these aspects of our nature are being ironed out (in the developed world in any case). As education and cultural diversity increase and strengthen racism will go the way of fear of witches. As much as people today can be cunts to those of another race it was much much worse 100 years ago. With each generation this will become less of an issue, we still have a ways to go but it'll be phased out. Hopefully within our lifetime.
 

Stammer

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Racism is just an extention of stereotypes. Sadly enough most stereotypes are more true than a lot of us think. And if for some reason you don't like a particular stereotype about a culture of people you're going to be racist.
 

Moeez

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Danny Roberts said:
Moeez said:
Migration, interracial relationships, and multiculturalism over hundreds of years have made this a moot point.
excuse me? this wasn't said to make a point or propagate an opinion. These are the historical and cultural reasons for racism. There's nothing to moot and no point to be made it's just fact.
Your fact is outdated.