I (finally) Watched Frozen!...I gotta say...

[Kenbo Slice]

The one thing that really bothered me about this film was that the conflict could've been stopped before it started, you know, if their parents actually did their fucking job as parents.

Dumbasses.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, sums it up for me. After watching Pixar films like UP, or even classic Disney movies like The Little Mermaid, this just felt mediocre. The music was mostly terrible, the writing was relatively poor, and the characters were bland and uninteresting. It was tolerable until the Snow Man came, and that was enough to kill it for me. You can definitely feel the exodus of real talent here. It felt like a shadow, or a pale imitation, of better Disney films. I know what they were trying to do, and I feel like the creators really poured themselves into trying to making a great classic Disney movie, but at the end of the day the talent just wasn't there. That tends to happen when most of your best animators and veterans from the Disney Renaissance are either dead, fired, retired, or quit. Not a bad film, just a forgettable one for me.

Well I mean, Alan Menken was on a long hiatus from Disney, but came back with Enchanted, which also had way better tunes than Frozen. And then with the combined might of Glen Keane they made Tangled into the charming little movie that it is. Did he come back after so long just to leave again after two movies? Why wasn't he on this project? And for that matter why wasn't Glen Keane? There's some animations in this movie, particularly the horses, that look horrible. Did they both just retire or get fired or what?

 

[Someone Depressing]

I thought it was definetely a gorgeous movie, which made me cry and eat ice cream. I didn't like the music, though; it was like one of those terrible re-makes of Disney love songs by pop princesses, except actually in the movie.

There were a ton of things that bothered me about the movie, though. But pretty much all of them are listed here, so no point in going on.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I'm with you on all points. I really loved it. The whole movie was great, and I was surprised to find Olaf to actually be kinda funny. I saw him on the cover and expected him to be the most annoying shit ever. My favourite line of his was "Oh... I've been impaled" He says it with the same smile he always has, and said it so simply. It didn't seem to phase him XD

I do also agree with a number of the issues brought up. Though, I dis-agree with the Let It Go part. That made my ears tingle, and it was a part of the movie I really enjoyed more than other parts.

 

[Vault101]

Yeah, sums it up for me. After watching Pixar films like UP, or even classic Disney movies like The Little Mermaid

little mermaid? I don't know...I feel like that one comes with a pair of nostalgia goggles

[quote/]Here's frollo singing a proper Disney song:
[/quote]

while fondly remembered for being edgy and different for disney its wasn't a HUGE critical or commercial sucess at the time

What I don't get is this line that "I expected Olaf to be annoying, but he wasn't even that bad."

Olaf is incredibly annoying.

you don't get that like because its based on personal preference...my personal preference

 

[Little Woodsman]

[this will contain spoilers]

EDIT: I also find it funny that this is the one disney movie where the Villains song isn't the standout...there wasn't even a villain song..

Actually there is a villain song. Re-watch it and see if you can catch it. If you can't, well...

Spoiler: Think about it

The villain song is Love is an Open Door.

Also not well known but the story went through a *huge* re-write *after* they had started working on the animation and laying in the voice tracks. In the original

Spoiler: because some people may still not have seen it

Elsa was supposed to be the villain,(though a sympathetic/redeemable/redeemed one) and Let it Go her villain number. Watch the song again and look at her expressions, particularly right at the end. Also note how she repeatedly sings "Let the storm rage on" while there is an actual storm destroying the country and threatening everyone else's lives.
What happened is that after they had Let it Go recorded and animated, the production/writing staff watched it... and decided that they couldn't have Elsa be the villain in any way, shape or form. So they did a major re-write and ended up with the Frozen that we know and love.

That's also why the trailers all have the part about "Now we just have to survive this blizzard." that isn't in the movie.

 

[Little Woodsman]

And by the end everyone is suddenly a-okay with Elsa being an ice witch, when initially the whole town was scared shitless. No explaination as to why, apart from that it's the end of the movie so everyone is happy now.

Actually the townsfolk were initially startled by the revelation of Elsa's powers, and they had an authority figure screaming "She's a monster!" at them which exacerbated the problem.
Note that in the beginning of the movie there's no indication that the King and Queen intend to keep Elsa's powers a secret, they enacted all the secrecy after Anna's injury, when they thought it was vital that Anna be kept unaware of the existence of magic.

EDIT: It occurs to me that this is actually why the Duke of Wesselton is a better villain (though still a minor one) than is readily apparent. His actions serve to support the real 'big bad' of the movie-Fear.

 

[Vault101]

Spoiler: because some people may still not have seen it

Elsa was supposed to be the villain,(though a sympathetic/redeemable/redeemed one) and Let it Go her villain number. Watch the song again and look at her expressions, particularly right at the end. Also note how she repeatedly sings "Let the storm rage on" while there is an actual storm destroying the country and threatening everyone else's lives.
What happened is that after they had Let it Go recorded and animated, the production/writing staff watched it... and decided that they couldn't have Elsa be the villain in any way, shape or form. So they did a major re-write and ended up with the Frozen that we know and love.

That's also why the trailers all have the part about "Now we just have to survive this blizzard." that isn't in the movie.

1. oh yeah "technically" but you know what I mean, dark imagery and "MUHAHAHA FIRE"

2. huh thats really interesting...but the song is so...triumphant we see Elsas struggle and vulnerability and then shes just like "let it gooooooo" I wonder what the original ending was supposed to be like because Elsas too damn sympathetic to be the villan..you just wanna hug her you know?

 

[PhiMed]

That's not even something that I considered, I just wouldn't think about that aspect and whether it is novel or not. It just isn't something that enters my mind.

*shug* and thats the thing isn't it? were so used to certain cliches....

[quote/]It's a positive thing, but I got an impression about wider social things like sexuality/sexism/racism in the buildup, which weren't actualised in the film.

erm...that wasn't the point of the movie...it was just about two sisters

social things are great and all but things need to be storys first and foremost...not public service announcements

Well at the moment I'm playing a computer game where you are a small girl. In fact I am playing two games at the moment where I am.

This is pretty novel for me and games, but I've not entered these two encounters thinking, woah, I don't normally play a little girl, I just play the character that is put infront of me - man, woman, child, creature, whatever. It's not an active thought process, I don't even get as far to think about it or acknowledge it (except obviously now in this discussion to make my point).

It's not that I don't think it should happen more, it's just not something I think about when getting into a story. I just wanna learn about the character, not categorise them by certain aspects of them.

And I'm not saying that it 'should've' been about social issues, I just said that I thought it was going to be because of the buildup I heard around it (again I don't blame this on the filmmakers, it was discussion around it not their advertising or any kind of misdirection). Nor do I want it to be about social issues and progression, I just want to watch a film, not be in some belief it will change the world.

I was kind of left not really understanding what to expect, because it all seemed so confusing.

But in the end, it was just a bit bland for me. Not very memorable. The characters won't fix in my memory like the ones from Shrek or Monsters Inc.

I thought it was fine, I just don't see it as great. There have been much stronger animated films.[/quote]

http://randomoverload.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/3cf4funny-Stephen-Colbert-race-black-people.jpg

This is what I kept hearing in my head as I read what you wrote.

But seriously, if you don't see gender, and you don't take the lack of inclusiveness/cookie cutter tropes of previous Disney movies into account, then I guess it isn't surprising why you didn't find Frozen refreshing.

Perhaps it isn't right, but companies with wide exposure get more credit when they're a little bit progressive than tiny production houses with nothing to lose. Because their progressive notions have the potential to stir a largely poo poo hurricane. That's just how it is.

 

[Little Woodsman]

Spoiler: because some people may still not have seen it

Elsa was supposed to be the villain,(though a sympathetic/redeemable/redeemed one) and Let it Go her villain number. Watch the song again and look at her expressions, particularly right at the end. Also note how she repeatedly sings "Let the storm rage on" while there is an actual storm destroying the country and threatening everyone else's lives.
What happened is that after they had Let it Go recorded and animated, the production/writing staff watched it... and decided that they couldn't have Elsa be the villain in any way, shape or form. So they did a major re-write and ended up with the Frozen that we know and love.

That's also why the trailers all have the part about "Now we just have to survive this blizzard." that isn't in the movie.

1. oh yeah "technically" but you know what I mean, dark imagery and "MUHAHAHA FIRE"

2. huh thats really interesting...but the song is so...triumphant we see Elsas struggle and vulnerability and then shes just like "let it gooooooo" I wonder what the original ending was supposed to be like because Elsas too damn sympathetic to be the villan..you just wanna hug her you know?

1--Well, I dunno. Sure there's no fire but when I listen to/see it in that context it seems awfully dark and creepy to me, when I think about the double meanings to what is being said...
The second time I took my little girl to see the movie it was on a packed Christmas eve showing, and right next to me was an elderly gentleman who had brought his grandchildren to see it...he got a little freaked out when he noticed that I had clenched teeth and a huge scowl throughout that song...

2--Well yes, the song is incredible (Was a fan of Idina Menzel even before the movie) but I do wonder how many tweaks were put on things to make her more so. But yes, end product is Elsa as a fantastically sympathetic character. I love how

Spoiler: spoiler

the character with the amazing super-powers is the not the villain, nor the heroine but the *victim*!

Also interestingly, despite the whole uplifting and triumphant song in which she sings "and the fears that once controlled me, cant get to me at all".. she continues to act in and from fear clear on up through the climax of the movie.
It's been hard to find out anything about the plot that was being worked on (other than 'Elsa was supposed to be the villain') but from what I've been able to piece together...

Spoiler: this is mostly speculation on my part

To me it looks like what was intended was that Elsa & Kristoff were supposed to end up together, (note how on all the movie posters Elsa is placed next to Krisoff while Anna is placed next to Hans), Anna would have somehow convinced her to lift the storm/winter and Elsa and Kristoff would go to live with the trolls and learn to get a better handle on Elsa's powers while Anna and Hans took over ruling the country. One of the interesting tidbits that I've discovered is that Fixer Uppper was originally supposed to be about Elsa and Kristoff, which makes much more sense of the line "People make bad choices when they're mad or scared or stressed"--fits Elsa much better than Anna.

Darn it! Now I wanna re-watch the movie and it's waaay too late to do that tonight! {grin}

 

[Vault101]

[snip}

yeah I noticed that on the blu ray cover....*shrug*

and ughhh fixer upper...the song is fine (as Frozens version of "a guy like you") but its really annoying since OH MY GOD YOU GUYS WE HAVE TO SEE PAPPA TROLL NOW BECAUSE ANNAS GONNA FUCKING DIE!!!!

 

[dyre]

Yeah, I really enjoyed it too. I noticed a lot of people trying to view it as some kind of feminist film or as some kind of deconstruction of Disney gender norms, but personally I give zero shits about that...I enjoy movies for their stories, not their political statements. I just saw it as a story about sister love / growing up (I want to say coming of age but it's not that dark). So, free from any mood-ruining thoughts about gender debate, I enjoyed a lovely, goodnatured film with likable characters and a cool 1700s-with-magic (though oddly with no guns) setting.

Not a huge fan of singing in movies, but it wasn't too bad here, and some of the songs were actually pretty catchy. The only real issue I had with the movie was the surprise reveal that Prince Hans was a jerk...there weren't any hints about it at all, and if he wanted Elsa dead why did he issue explicit orders not to harm her and later actively save her life? Plus, I feel like a guy purely interested in winning the throne wouldn't think about things like personally organizing the distribution of supplies to those in need. I guess you could say he wanted to win over the citizens, but I feel someone purely interested in stealing the throne would have done those things with more self-aggrandizement; quietly being a good leader isn't really bad guy tactics. Overall it seemed like a poorly-executed plot twist to me. Otherwise though, great movie. Extra points for Princess Anna being voiced by Veronica Mars.

edit: also, the quality of the humor was similar to other recent Disney movies (other than Wreck it Ralph, which was consistently excellent); it was hit or miss but the movie's good nature made me willing to overlook some of the corny jokes.

 

[Casual Shinji]

[quote/]Here's frollo singing a proper Disney song:

while fondly remembered for being edgy and different for disney its wasn't a HUGE critical or commercial sucess at the time[/quote]It certainly was great seeing them return to a dark place, which they hadn't done since... probably the 40's.

And by the end everyone is suddenly a-okay with Elsa being an ice witch, when initially the whole town was scared shitless. No explaination as to why, apart from that it's the end of the movie so everyone is happy now.

Actually the townsfolk were initially startled by the revelation of Elsa's powers, and they had an authority figure screaming "She's a monster!" at them which exacerbated the problem.
Note that in the beginning of the movie there's no indication that the King and Queen intend to keep Elsa's powers a secret, they enacted all the secrecy after Anna's injury, when they thought it was vital that Anna be kept unaware of the existence of magic.

EDIT: It occurs to me that this is actually why the Duke of Wesselton is a better villain (though still a minor one) than is readily apparent. His actions serve to support the real 'big bad' of the movie-Fear.

It doesn't get time to breath though, and that is the overarching problem I have with this movie: It has a lot of very good ideas (apart from the rock trolls and Olaf), but is never really allowed to take its time and stretch its legs. Moments and setpieces rush into eachother, like a tour guide pushing along the exhibits in a museum, instead of granting you time to take it in at your leisure.

 

[Vault101]

]It doesn't get time to breath though,

I already said this buy yeah..I agree here


[quote/]and that is the overarching problem I have with this movie: It has a lot of very good ideas (apart from the rock trolls and Olaf)[/quote]

I actually like the trolls...or particularly papa troll at the start....the troll musical number I think was fine for what it was but it had the unfortunate decision to be placed at a REALLY URGANT AND CRITICAL POINT AND OH MY GOD WHY THE FUCK ARE WE SINGING SHES GONNA DIEEEEEEE!!!!!!???

EDIT: completely unrelated but I want disney to go all out and make a sci fi musical...like...totally taking itself 100% seriously sci fi princess movie set space

...just imagine

 

[Casual Shinji]

I actually like the trolls...or particularly papa troll at the start....the troll musical number I think was fine for what it was but it had the unfortunate decision to be placed at a REALLY URGANT AND CRITICAL POINT AND OH MY GOD WHY THE FUCK ARE WE SINGING SHES GONNA DIEEEEEEE!!!!!!???

Yeah, that was one one of the most glaring tonal shifts in recent memory. Happy, goofy song puntuated by 'oh yeah, she's dying, better hurry'.

 

[Vault101]

]Yeah, that was one one of the most glaring tonal shifts in recent memory. Happy, goofy song puntuated by 'oh yeah, she's dying, better hurry'.

well if you think about its a similar thing in Lion King and Bambi (and disney films in general)..right after Mufasa's/mothers death they sing HAPPY SONGS

except here its more noticeable due to the tighter pace...as you said no breathing room

 

[Casual Shinji]

well if you think about its a similar thing in Lion King and Bambi (and disney films in general)..right after Mufasa's/mothers death they sing HAPPY SONGS

except here its more noticeable due to the tighter pace...as you said no breathing room

Yeah, but in those movies at least some time passes (within the movie). And I think it also comes from a mindset of 'we've made people sad, let's lift their spirits a bit'.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

It's a pretty flat movie. It's fun, but it falls apart on closer inspection.

Especially this:

snip

Frozen is hardly progressive, it

The one thing that really bothered me about this film was that the conflict could've been stopped before it started, you know, if their parents actually did their fucking job as parents.

Dumbasses.

I read a summary of the movie before I saw it and thought this part was silly but could be made presentable. But then I saw the movie and my entire suspension of disbelief was lost.

"Our daughter got hurt.....I KNOW LET'S ERASE HER MEMORY, IT'S SAFER"

snip

Frozen is hardly progressive or refreshing, Tangled accomplished that goal far better.

The only thing Frozen "deconstructs" is the "you can't marry someone you just met." Which is something everyone knows is a fairytale.

 

[Little Woodsman]

"Our daughter got hurt.....I KNOW LET'S ERASE HER MEMORY, IT'S SAFER"

It was the advice given to them by the one being they knew who had any working knowledge of magic. Ignoring it would have been insane.