I give up.

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Dr Snakeman

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Wait... I'm confused. I don't see a question; you're just laying out what you (apparently) don't like about yourself. Did you want help with something here? Is it the virgin thing? Because if it's that...

I got nothing. I've never been laid, either. But I can say that I've gotten a lot more sociable lately now that I've just stopped being so uptight about things. So that might change soon.

Because of this turn of events, I do have some advice. According to a rather well thought-out Cracked article that I wholeheartedly agree with, social awkwardness stems primarily from one thing: the belief that everyone has it "figured out" but you. But the fact is that nobody has any clue what the hell they're doing. If you just stop worrying so much about whether what you're doing is the "correct" thing that all the "cool" people would do, and just do it, things just tend to work out better. It's been working for me.
 

Dr Snakeman

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The_Vigilant said:
Let me tell you what I learned about 2 years ago: women are as shallow as men. So, here's the secret: work out. A lot. Spend at least ten hours a week in the gym doing high intensity lifting. If you have OCD, even better. Focus that compulsion on your core muscle routine. Drink a good protein isolate. Cut the shit out of your diet. If you wear glasses, lose 'em. Contacts. If you have acne, stop touching your face and use an exfoliating wash. If you have a stupid haircut, fix it. Something that's masculine but controlled and gets the hair out of your eyes and forehead. If you have a weak chin, grow a well-trimmed goatee. If you have a strong chin, stay clean-shaven all the time. Pluck your eyebrows, trim your nose-hair, and observe good dental hygiene. Stop wearing clothes from Hot Topic. I know everybody here probably thinks that polo shirts are a jock frat boy uniform, but they look good and they're comfortable.

The rest is attitude and that's even easier. Stand up straight, chest out, stomach in, lats gently flexed. Remember you're a man and have some fucking pride. Act confident all the time even if you feel like shit. Never complain about anything. Wear a gentle smile and look relaxed. If you don't have anything interesting to say, keep your mouth shut. If you do, say it. Focus on other people's interests in conversation and hit them with them a light, but sincere compliment about the things that matter to them every 15 minutes or so. And don't be so goddamn afraid of rejection. Ask a girl to dance. The worst that could happen is she says no. But my experience is that girls respond well to aggressive moves.

If you actually do everything I just said, it will change your life. I think people told me these things but I didn't listen to them. I had to learn it on my own.
This is... not good. Ten hours a week? Come on. Any fitness expert would tell you that that's excessive. And really, it just leads to a muscleheaded appearance, and worse, an obsession with said appearance. I mean, I can respect some of the stuff about trying to improve one's confidence (confidence is attractive. Period) and social skills, but the rest just seems... stupid.
 

LarenzoAOG

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Apr 28, 2010
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You don't have it as bad as these guys, so look on the bright side of life.

http://www.glogster.com/media/2/2/76/32/2763267.jpg

http://www.timesofummah.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/afgan_refugee.jpg

Shit, fucked up the embedding, I'll just post the links.
 

neonsword13-ops

~ Struck by a Smooth Criminal ~
Mar 28, 2011
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Being a virgin at 25 is not bad in any sense, unless you want to be "THAT GUY" who just wants to get laid. Just find somebody that shares your likings and it will all go uphill from there.

Unless they're a *****. ^-^
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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The_Vigilant said:
Palademon said:
I don't know why people are applauding this, it makes me feel like

Because I live by "Why the fuck do anything if I can't do it being me?"
I'm not laying out the Ten Commandments of life, I'm responding to a plea for help. The OP wanted to know how get some female companionship, and this is how you do it. If you want to be yourself - more power to you, friend, it's just not always the best way to pick up chicks.
Because insincerity is totally way to start a meaningful relationship. I appreciate your sentiment with the advice, but it comes across very condescending and shallow. I suppose some people only want a fling or whatever, but a lot of others are looking for something lasting.
 

MikeBrownYo

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Dude! I hate reading about you being so down on yourself. Let me tell you the secret to friends and girls and more or less everything in life. It's confidence. I am not a particularly good looking dude, I am pretty awkward, I am kind of loud and pretty obnoxious. Just like you (and every other human being) I have a million really weird flaws. But despite that, I have a cool job where I work in a night club, I have decent to good luck with the ladies and a pretty big circle of friends. How did I get all this? By being confident. By not being afraid to walk up to a stranger and talk to them like a friend, or not being afraid to go up to a pretty girl and tell her I think she's cute.

Just try it dude, take a look in the mirror and tell yourself that you are a good person, and you deserve to have more friends, or better friends, or hot girls, or nice girls or a Lexus or anything in this world that you want. Once you have done that, go out and try talking to a girl, or a new friend, or an old friend that you wish you were closer with and just try to get the results you want. You know what? You will probably fail at this the first time, and the second time, and maybe the third time and as many times as you try until it works how you want it to. But it doesn't matter. Every time whatever you are trying to achieve doesn't work, all you have to do is go back to the mirror and tell yourself that you can do it and try again.

I know this isn't about me, but to cite myself as an example again, I had no luck with girls or with making friends until I was pushing 20. But I kept trying and sooner or later after constantly trying, I got where I wanted to be. It was hard, it was embarassing and it was worth it all in the end.

Maybe I am just ranting at this point, but I don't see any reason why you can't be anything you want to be. You just have to believe in yourself. Dig me?

Also, as an edit I would like to indicate a lot of other people are much better advice givers than me. But the guy talking about hitting the gym and all that junk should NOT be listened to. He is actually somewhat right, but that doesn't mean the world needs another one of those True Religion wearing knuckle draggers.
 

Astoria

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I really wouldn't worry about it. Being a virgin at your age is no big deal and I doubt as rare as you think it is. Having OCD probably a blessing in disguise because you know that whoever is with you truly accepts you for you. I've always had a small social circle but it was still enough for me to meet my boyfriend. Honestly, nearly no one knows how to flirt at first. Just do whatever comes naturally to you and go from there.

Just keep your chin up. It's funny but I've found that people tend to find a partner when they're least expecting it. You may think you have a small chance of finding someone but if you give up you have none so giving up isn't the way to go. Maybe just try looking somewhere new? And clubs really aren't the way to go if that's what you've been trying.
 

Jacco

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Arsen said:
Not entirely, but in spirit that is.

Okay, so I originally typed this out about five days ago initially, but as it turns out...I was a little mean-spirited and vehement in having to type it out. So, I will make this infinitely shorter, and I will be as open to criticism as I possibly can be:

- I am a 25 year old virgin.
- I have a mental onset of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (repetitive tasks basically, routine/stereotyped thinking, other strange compulsions).
- I am seldom out and about. My social circles have always been limited.
- I...have absolutely no clue what to do. At all. Flirt, open up conversations out of this air...summoning the damn balls to do so.

You guys seem kind outside of the religious/political forum. Sigh. Humiliating this is.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Here's my take on it because I went through it and learned a couple of things.

EVERYBODY is human. That means everyone has thought about the same things in the past, gone through the same things, experienced the same things. It also means that you can use that to understand people better in all situations.
For instance, if you do something and get embarassed about it, don't feel bad about yourself. Consider the possibility that the person you did it in front of has done it in front of someone else. When someone else has done something embarassing in front of you, think about how you felt then. I've found that applying your own reactions to similar instances more often than not is pretty close to how the person is feeling when you do something.
That being said, you can apply that to talking to girls. They aren't some mystical god being. They are human beings, just like you. They like the same things you do, they have embarassed themselves the same way you have, etc. How would you feel if some girl just came up and started small talking with you at a bar or something? Bets are that that girl you are eyeing across the room will feel the same way. Do you like it when people send you Facebook friend requests? Of course you do and you don't find it stalkerish or wierd. They are the same way.


Despite what the world would like you to believe, being 25 years old and a virgin is not a bad thing. Sex isn't something you should just hand out like candy. You just havent found the right person. And again, if you find you really want to just go for it, it's not that hard to find. Most people (with the exception of religious nuts) have sex on the second or third date anyway so all you have to do get to that. Not hard at all though I recommend waiting. Women find it sweet when a guy hasn't had sex yet.


As for not ever getting out and about, you are like me. Last friday I went out to a bar with a friend. That was the first time in about 8 weeks I had actually gone out on a weekend. During the week no one calls me or texts me and I end up sitting around looking for reasons to leave the house- go to the grocery store, go to walmart, etc. Eventually I realized that it became a self imposed thing. I got so used to being alone at home that when i got invited to stuff I actually didn't want to go because it was easier to just watch TV or play a game. Then I realized I was getting fat. lol. You just have to "go" for it. Force yourself to do stuff with people. Force people to do stuff with you. Everyone likes to have a good time, but sometimes they just take a bit of prodding. Where I live, the Art Museum has a free day on the first friday of every month. I tell my friends we are going to go three weeks in advance and keep bugging them about it until the day it arrives and I don't really give them a choice.

You've got to be assertive. That will solve your friend and girl problems. Tell people you want to do something, don't ask them if they would like to do it. People are naturally followers, its just in our nature. You just have to assert a reason for them to follow you and they will.

PM me if you want/need any clarification or advice. I really have been through what you describe and while I haven't completely conquered it, I understand the steps that neeed to be taken.


Sorry if the above is incoherent. I understand the concept behind it because I learned and came up with it, but I haven't quite figured out how to explain it to someone else.
 

Loner Jo Jo

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Jul 22, 2011
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Raddra said:
Go to your doctor and talk.
Seriously.
They can get you help.
I completely agree, and I think this is the best advice given so far in this thread. A therapist is the only person who is trained to help you work through whatever baggage you have (and who doesn't honestly) and will know the best ways to help you progress.

Look, I can't relate personally because none of those things apply to me, though I have my own issues. However, I will tell you this as an aside. The most powerful attribute a person can possess is confidence. (I know easier said than done.) When you're confident, people know and respect you. You don't have to change a thing else. You have OCD, okay, that's part of who you are, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. You're a virgin? So what? Attitude is far more important in the bedroom than experience anyway, in my opinion. You have only a handful of friends? Awesome! That probably means you're closer to them than people with 100 friends are.
 

The_Vigilant

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Jul 13, 2011
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AC10 said:
Lyri said:
Palademon said:
I don't know why people are applauding this, it makes me feel like

Because I live by "Why the fuck do anything if I can't do it being me?"
Are you saying you can't take care of your body and your health, dress a little smarter without being you?

If you are, I don't know what to say to you.
He didn't say "Just take better care of yourself" he said what was essentially "devote your whole life to your image." You do not need to spend a minimum of 10 hours a week in a gym and walk around with your chest puffed out and flexing like a gorilla just to stand a chance with women because believe it or not, not all females are the same.

Will some go for the super buff look? Of course; but most of the women I know (being from a math and CS background) wouldn't give you a glance if you can't at least do some rudimentary integral calculus and know the basics of affine transformation matricies.

My real point is different people have different standards and value some things over others.
Don't kid yourself. Those girls are as impressed by broad shoulders, tight abs, and clean skin as anybody else. I'm still a gamer nerd so I hang out with other gamer nerds and I go to their parties. These are parties for art, music, theater, computer science, engineering, etc. majors. All my buddies think they have a lock on their little worlds. They think they understand the girls and know which ones can be had and which ones can't. I ALWAYS prove them wrong. I don't know Calculus past derivatives and some Lagrangian formulas and I don't know a single programming language. But you know what? When you look twice the man of anybody else there, these unique, nuanced, interesting, academic girls are as rabid in their shallowness as any bar skank.

This annoys my friends because they thought they had discovered a realm where jockish bullshit wasn't worth a damn. And they wanna know why the girl they were after for three months was more interested in feeling my arms than discussing their original jazz compositions or the challenges of non-Euclidian geometry.

This is the internet. Lying doesn't make me look cool because you don't even know who I am. But trust me on this, whether you're looking for something long-term or just to get laid, you dramatically improve your odds by toning your body and going to parties with alcohol. And when girls are tipsy, they don't want to have an intellectual discussion, no matter how smart and "cool" they are. They want to hit the dance floor and rub their bodies on you. But they don't want to do that if you rank 17th physically out of the 20 guys present. I've gotten one night stands from these parties and serious committed relationships like the one I'm in right now.

Finally, I understand why people react to my "shtick" the way they do. I really do. It's exactly the way I responded five years ago when people said this stuff to me. "Meaningless sex is pointless," "I'm looking for a girl who's interested in the real me" blah blah blah. Honestly, I was just jealous that the person talking to me was getting laid and I wasn't. Now I have/have had/can have both the wild hookups and the deep, serious relationships. The way to do it? I already told you.

By all means, add your own personal flavor to it, but a certain degree of conformity is required for a satisfying human life. Nobody gets to truly "be themselves" in this world. Serial rapists and murderers certainly don't. Cross-dressers are scorned at almost every level of society. And all of us have to work jobs and accept responsibilities that we would prefer not to have. Attracting the opposite sex requires its own conformity to an ideal. Accept it and then you can learn to embrace and exploit it. Before long, you'll be thankful that what women want in a man is so simple because you can abuse it like a wall hack.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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I was twenty-six when I lost my virginity and not for want of trying for the decade prior. (I've since made up for lost time, and then some.)

I suffer from major depression, and was, in my young adulthood, crazy enough to scare away everyone, man or woman, who might want to associate with me. With time, I've learned to manage my symptoms.[footnote]If you haven't yet, check out DBT [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy]. CBT is a robust (if a bit rough) treatment process towards reducing your symptoms in response to triggers. DBT is a set of tools to help one manage their symptoms. If your insurance doesn't cover it, you may have to get proactive and learn these tools online and search locally for a peer support group. But hopefully, you'll be able to get into a program. If nothing else, PM me, and I'll provide what interpersonal sponsorship I can.[/footnote]

As a secularist, I'm one to encourage sexual activity -- with the same degree of regard for safety that one should have when driving a motor vehicle or handling firearms[footnote]You can contract STIs. You can get pregnant (or get someone pregnant). You can get heartbroken if your partner is untrustworthy. Make sure you take precautions to protect yourself from these outcomes.[/footnote] -- because it is a means by which we better know ourselves, because it's a lot of fun, and it mellows us out and is generally a healthful thing to be sexually active.[footnote]I hypothesize that Islamic extremists would quickly run out of volunteer suicide terrorists if their recruits were getting laid on a steady basis. The severe restrictions on sex in Shariah law [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia], and the allowance, even encouragement of polygynous households headed by wealthy men makes for a general dearth of girlfriend material. Things as they are paint very pretty the promise of 72 virgins[footnote]Though, make mine seventy-two classically-trained tantrika courtesans, please.[/footnote] in an afterlife to a young, sexually desperate man.[/footnote] [footnote]The tradition of saving one's self until marriage was a device in olden times to make arranged marriages more effective at procreation, for times when women were chattel and male heirs were important. A young couple denied sexual satisfaction would go at each other like starved rats at peanut butter, despite how otherwise incompatible they were. These days, women are regarded as persons in their own right. Labor shortages are less a concern, as are heirs, and female children pass along more of the father's genetic code, anyway. And marriage is generally for love, not an arrangement.[/footnote]

That said, the best thing you can do is get yourself out there, no matter how anxiety-inducing such a proposition is. I suggest group activites you enjoy. (e.g. Tabletop card and board games are my own preference.) School study groups are excellent, as are church or community activities. The first step is to use this as per exposure therapy to get used to the idea of being around people, after which anxiety will reduce in time. The second is to make friends and expand your social network. (That is, people with whom you share face time. People you only know on Facebook or The Escapist don't count here.)

When it comes to notching the bedpost, my method is a bit different than is typical in the mainstream, which is good, since I'm not particularly into drinking, the nightclub scene or spectator sports. So by all means feel free to try methods other than mine:

The Uriel-238[footnote]Patent Pending, 1993[/footnote] surefire seduction technique that always scores is to treat a woman exactly the same way you would treat any other person who doesn't (necessarily) have a working vagina. I've noticed that in every single case that I've used this technique, provided a) she was available, b) we were basically attracted to each other (e.g. healthy, shared good chemistry) and c) we had enough time to share, that she'd ride me like a pony I'd score with her like a champion that something quite pleasant would happen between the two of us.

I'd apologize about the wall of text, but that's just what I do.

238U
 

Lord Beautiful

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Aug 13, 2008
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The_Vigilant said:
*massive snip*
I...

I love you. So much. No homo.

Seriously, you get it. You just fucking get it.

The only objection I've had to anything you've said thus far (that comes to mind) is the "ten hours a week at the gym" bit.

Actually, I take that back. If he's in bad shape, it will take a lot of conditioning to get to the point where time spent at the gym won't be quite as extensive. I only spend about three hours in the gym each week (it'd be more if the goddamn place was open on weekends), but the closest thing I have to a break is a trip to the water fountain.

But yeah. You know your shit. Awesomesauce.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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You think YOU have it bad?
- I'm a 29 year old virgin
- My social circles are non-existent, and I'm probably out and about less than you.
- And I probably have less of an idea of what to do in that regard than you do.
- Also social anxiety. I hate facing people.
 

Acier

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Nov 5, 2009
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The_Vigilant said:
Let me tell you what I learned about 2 years ago: women are as shallow as men. So, here's the secret: work out. A lot. Spend at least ten hours a week in the gym doing high intensity lifting. If you have OCD, even better. Focus that compulsion on your core muscle routine. Drink a good protein isolate. Cut the shit out of your diet. If you wear glasses, lose 'em. Contacts. If you have acne, stop touching your face and use an exfoliating wash. If you have a stupid haircut, fix it. Something that's masculine but controlled and gets the hair out of your eyes and forehead. If you have a weak chin, grow a well-trimmed goatee. If you have a strong chin, stay clean-shaven all the time. Pluck your eyebrows, trim your nose-hair, and observe good dental hygiene. Stop wearing clothes from Hot Topic. I know everybody here probably thinks that polo shirts are a jock frat boy uniform, but they look good and they're comfortable.

The rest is attitude and that's even easier. Stand up straight, chest out, stomach in, lats gently flexed. Remember you're a man and have some fucking pride. Act confident all the time even if you feel like shit. Never complain about anything. Wear a gentle smile and look relaxed. If you don't have anything interesting to say, keep your mouth shut. If you do, say it. Focus on other people's interests in conversation and hit them with them a light, but sincere compliment about the things that matter to them every 15 minutes or so. And don't be so goddamn afraid of rejection. Ask a girl to dance. The worst that could happen is she says no. But my experience is that girls respond well to aggressive moves.

If you actually do everything I just said, it will change your life. I think people told me these things but I didn't listen to them. I had to learn it on my own.
/slowclap

I. Love. You.

As a female, I declare this post the winner.

And I was thinking about going into a "waaah double standards" rant after reading the comments bringing this guy down. But I don't want to put a lot of effort into something that will mostly likely be ignored. The basic gist of it is that all these things are automatically expected of women, but when we want a little effort in return we get all the butthurt about being shallow and "you don't love the real me if you want me to changeeeee"

If anyone is actually interested in a more detailed and thought out argument, I'd be happy to do it. Just let me know. I just don't want to put in the effort in vain.